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Thread: Teach Me Something NEW!!

  1. #21
    Senior Member rubyred's Avatar
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    Re: Teach Me Something New For Christ Sakes

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    but why cant we become better ceroc dancers without having to go outside ceroc. Why are we forced to spend lots of money to advance further.
    Ceroc is not a purist form of dance.'Ceroc dancing'' is made up of little bits of all the other styles of dancing in the world. I feel it does me good to delve into those disciplins so that I can bring back the style, poise, posture and the technique of following that I want so that I keep enjoying MJ. It keeps me buzzing and passionate about dancing. One of the many positives about MJ is that you can be so expressive, something that you are a little restrained from doing in other styles that have footwork.

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    Re: Teach Me Something New For Christ Sakes

    Excuse me if i go a bit off-thread as the discussion is turning into - learning how to lead and follow.

    Do the standard lessons really teach the followers how to follow?? You could have fooled me. The lessons teach the leaders to execute the move and the followers just respond to the execution. Followers learn how to turn and spin by themselves, by trial and error and by avoiding to be thrown about too much. It is a bit like that "step back on either leg" thing - even the newest of dancers will notice that the follower stepping back on left or right leg will make a difference on where she ends up if you simply turn her anticlockwise after that. As to spinning, well some spin naturally on the spot straight away and others who have been dancing for years still need shepherding.

    P.S. went to Fulham yesterday
    The teacher, who specialises on latin workshops started the beginner class with a little warm-up (all dancers facing forward) some stepping, (then with another person facing) feeling the tension in the arms doing mambo steps to the side and in and outs face on) etc. And she mentioned twice that the follower just follows what the leader does. If she had spent 5 minutes on turning and spinning she could have been nominated as the model teacher.

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    Re: Teach Me Something New For Christ Sakes

    Quote Originally Posted by Raul View Post
    went to Fulham yesterday
    You have my sympathy.

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    Re: Teach Me Something New For Christ Sakes

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    You have my sympathy.
    and mine. Try Stevenage, i'll send you flowers. x

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    Re: Teach Me Something New For Christ Sakes

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyred View Post
    in other styles that have footwork.
    Don't get me started. Ceroc does not have proscribed footwork as far as I can make out "step back with whatever foot you like" seems to be a Ceroc teaching tool. A huge proportion of MJ does have footwork. Nuff said.

  6. #26
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    Re: Teach Me Something New For Christ Sakes

    To be considered:

    Maybe Ceroc do not teach 'footwork' as such, or lead an follow or styling points in detail because they believe that people should be given the basic tools to partner dance and then should be encouraged/left to develop their own styles? (this is just a hypothesis)

    I know one of the reasons I came to Ceroc to begin with was because I was sick of being over-styled and over-analysed by my ballroom teachers. I wanted to dance 'my way', without being told that my foot was in the wrong place etc etc.

    What I choose to add to my MJ dancing comes from a variety of different sources and dance styles and some particular dancers I find inspirational, as well as useful tips and advice from other dancers that I have found work nicely for me.

    It's like going from School to University/workplace - you don't have someone spoon-feeding you 24/7 out in the wider world, you have to make your own mind up, go and seek out advice and people to teach you. There's a whole world of dance out there if you look for it

  7. #27
    Not a spoon! Lou's Avatar
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    Re: Teach Me Something New For Christ Sakes

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Don't get me started. Ceroc does not have proscribed footwork as far as I can make out "step back with whatever foot you like" seems to be a Ceroc teaching tool. A huge proportion of MJ does have footwork. Nuff said.
    I throught Cerocâ„¢ proscribed all footwork?

    Dammit. Deja vu.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: Teach Me Something New For Christ Sakes

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    .....I came out of the other side and decided to get better at MJ. ../snip/......... STICK WITH MODERN JIVE. You are already a good dancer and great fun to dance with.....
    I have been dancing for over 13 years now and keep coming back to Modern Jive, although now I can dance Lindy, Rock 'n' Roll, 40's swing, and WCS, and some ballroom (although I can follow in these styles I am not that good at them)

    Use your knowledge and experience of MJ to get more fun out of dancing, watch videos on great dancers and try and use the styling in your own dance. Go to difference venues, especially ones that don't know you. It is great fun when a good dancer who is a complete stranger dances with you and you see his face change from "I'll give this newbie a charity dance" to WOW "what a lovely dancer"

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    .....If you want to improve quickly, don't dance with beginners. Seek out the better dancers and stick to them like glue. For leaders, I don't think this applies - I find that I learn a great deal about lead and follow by dancing with total beginners.
    No, sorry I actually disagree with this. you actually don't need to improve, just to get more fun out of your dancing. Dancing with beginners & improvers, showing them what a really good follow is, is sometimes challenging, but very rewarding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    I believe, as a follow in Ceroc, you reach a stage where you pick up 'more' from freestyling or watching other dancers, than you do from the lessons.

    One day you suddenly realise that the tables have turned and your actually helping/teaching the leads, more than your learning yourself.

    Obviously this does have some benefits, i.e. meeting people. giving something back and investing in future dancers, etc.

    but IMO, once you've learnt the concept of following 'properly' you don't actually need to learn more moves, so sadly the lessons do feel a bit like a waste of time........


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  9. #29
    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
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    Re: Teach Me Something New For Christ Sakes

    Quote Originally Posted by Raul View Post
    P.S. went to Fulham yesterday
    The teacher, who specialises on latin workshops started the beginner class with a little warm-up (all dancers facing forward) some stepping, (then with another person facing) feeling the tension in the arms doing mambo steps to the side and in and outs face on) etc. And she mentioned twice that the follower just follows what the leader does. If she had spent 5 minutes on turning and spinning she could have been nominated as the model teacher.
    This is called "Ceroc Basics" and all Ceroc classes should have it.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Re: Teach Me Something New For Christ Sakes

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    This is called "Ceroc Basics" and all Ceroc classes should have it.
    YES THEY SHOULD.....but they do not. Interesting isn't it.

  11. #31
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    Re: Teach Me Something New For Christ Sakes

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    This is called "Ceroc Basics" and all Ceroc classes should have it.
    I am glad to hear it.

    To be honest, i have not been that early to the venues and do not always see the beginning of the first class. It is a good thing if it happens consistently, may be the intermediate class should also be reviewed to cover essential skills (for those dancers who passed their driving tests before the old king died and those who think they have IT but don't).

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Don't get me started. Ceroc does not have proscribed footwork as far as I can make out "step back with whatever foot you like" seems to be a Ceroc teaching tool. A huge proportion of MJ does have footwork. Nuff said.
    Andy, I am finding your replies quite tiresome as you always twist every thread into a Ceroc v/s the world thing. In any case you cannot say that
    - Ceroc does not have foot work - Ceroc is massive and gobbling up all the little independents - A huge proportion of MJ has footwork. This is illogocal.

    Save yourself the bother of replying to my post unless you exclude reference to individual organisations. If you get very one tracked you become impleasant to communicate with. Your friends say you are ok - Sometimes!

    .
    Last edited by Raul; 4th-May-2007 at 05:08 PM.

  12. #32
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    Re: Teach Me Something New For Christ Sakes

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble
    They just do not cater for us at this level at any of the ceroc venues that i have been too unless of course your prepared to stomp out more money on workshops. ... Why are we forced to spend lots of money to advance further.
    You could use the money you save on not going to weekly events any more to pay for workshops and/or private lessons.
    Alternatively, you could contact your local organiser and ask if they can give you a discount if you only attend the freestyle portion of the dance.

  13. #33
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Teach Me Something NEW!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    i have finally joined the ranks of no longer attending classes on Ceroc nights as they bore me stupid, the teachers manage to annoy me at their own self importance and the beginners bless em, DO MY HEAD IN.

    I am only going to attend the odd freestyles now and have to find something new to do.

    CEROC - SURELY YOU HAVE TO WAKE UP AND REALISE, US EXPERIENCED PEOPLE NEED INSPIRATION TOO.

    Why do we end up like this...?
    I obviously can't comment on the standard of your teachers - but you clearly feel they're not right for you...

    As for Ceroc, or any organization for that matter, they are normally restricted by what the venue allows. We would love to run advanced classes at Twickers but we only have 2 rooms - so we can't unless we teach an advanced class during freestyle.

    I find it odd that you think that the workshops aren't providing the service you require, when that's exactly what they are there for. Weeknights are for beg's, Inter, and freestyle - work shops are for more intensive learning and improvement. Of course that means you have to stump up some extra money - they are not going to teach a 4 hour class for nothing are they?

    I'm not commenting on you here Trouble because I don't actually know you - but there are lot of dancers who sit out of classes who really NEED to be still doing them. MJ teachers can't deal with that level of arrogance especially when it means that they are not good enough for an advanced class either - believe me, I've taught some advanced classes with people who were so bad we ended up dumbing down every class we then taught - people's perception of their own dancing ability can often be a little off the mark....

    The best thing I ever did was to go back to doing beginners classes again when I got bored of my dancing. By really concentrating on how I was leading and taking time to work my own foot patterns out to basic moves it not only improved my dancing but brought back the enjoyment for me.

    It's a shame the beginners in your area 'DO YOUR HEAD IN...'

  14. #34
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    Re: Teach Me Something New For Christ Sakes

    Quote Originally Posted by Raul View Post
    Save yourself the bother of replying to my post unless you exclude reference to individual organisations. If you get very one tracked you become impleasant to communicate with. Your friends say you are ok - Sometimes!

    .
    The answer to that is to stop quoting me and replying to my posts. It seems to me that Raul is quite happy to respond to my posts in a aggressive and rude fashion. But he doesn't seem to want to take it in return. And he's not even replied to my earlier post which is addressed to him in particular.

    p.s. I didn't mention any organisation

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    Re: Teach Me Something NEW!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    I'm not commenting on you here Trouble because I don't actually know you - but there are lot of dancers who sit out of classes who really NEED to be still doing them. MJ teachers can't deal with that level of arrogance especially when it means that they are not good enough for an advanced class either - believe me, I've taught some advanced classes with people who were so bad we ended up dumbing down every class we then taught - people's perception of their own dancing ability can often be a little off the mark....
    I no longer run "Advanced Classes" for this very reason Every advanced class that you run has at least one guy who can't hear the beat and one woman who is unleadable.

  16. #36
    Registered User jiveoholic's Avatar
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    Re: Teach Me Something NEW!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    i have finally joined the ranks of no longer attending classes on Ceroc nights as they bore me stupid....

    I am only going to attend the odd freestyles now and have to find something new to do.

    CEROC - SURELY YOU HAVE TO WAKE UP AND REALISE, US EXPERIENCED PEOPLE NEED INSPIRATION TOO.
    Is this just not life? Who can do the same old thing for ever? Personally, my jive life has lived through a different number of focusses (focii?). Here they are:

    1. Divorce - Get a life - decide to jive
    2. Keep a life - try to get the hang of jive (against all the odds)
    3. Try to accomplish all those clever moves and slides I see others do
    4. Wow - just seen an airstep - have to learn those
    5. Got as good as one can at that...getting bored...oh dear....
    6. put my written up moveson the web
    7. Try Salsa, WSC etc
    8. Still bored - Learn Japanese!

    Now I could have tried taxi dancing or setting up my own venue - but it just didn't work out. I could have tried inventing a new style of MoJive.

    Nothing goes on for ever without getting same-ish - you can't blame Ceroc for that. Great recipe - just doesn't last for ever.

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    Re: Teach Me Something NEW!!

    Hi Trouble

    I am little saddened to read your comments - mainly because it will mean less opportunity to dance with you. Let me expand on that into something which may be considered as a way forward:

    I have in the past put forward some ideas on how the teaching approach could be improved - see here Ceroc Mad Jive Lad: Manifesto (2) - Teaching
    Now when I look at this, it is missing what is important to me right now: style and musicality lessons. Where did this priority come from? Partly from you my dear: I think I understood more - and more about what was missing from my dancing, simply by dancing with you and getting your comments and ideas. This feeling was exacerbated following this experience: Ceroc Mad Jive Lad: Chill Part 4 - The 1:1 lesson

    Personally, I have decided that style and musicality is the focus for me for the rest of the year - so any workshops I attend will be in that area. I already of backlog of moves from workshops etc... that need to be 'embedded' as I call it.

    This is where you could come in. I feel there is a niche for you to teach 1:1 - expanding on some of the things you do so well - for leaders (and maybe followers too) like me at our stage of development.

    I would appreciate (and be happy to pay for) say 20 minutes focused 1:1 with you - which would merely in some ways expand on what you have done in the past.

    Maybe this does not necessarily hit your main point - however I really don't want to see the dissipation of your talents.

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    Re: Teach Me Something NEW!!

    she is good at one on one teaching..... i have benefited no end from her advice....

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    Re: Teach Me Something NEW!!

    Whilst all the advice and recommendations on here are absolutely correct and valid, i feel sad that i am no longer wanting to go during the week to the ceroc venues. I rely on my dancing during the week to keep me fit and socialise. But i just can not do it anymore, it bores me stiff. I just can not understand why they can not put something together for advanced dancers, even if it was just once a month where they could learn something great. So from now on, only weekenders and freestyles for me unless soembody specifically asks me to go. I already do loads of workshops and will continue to do so to try and stretch/improve my dancing.

    Jivelad, anytime you want a one on one, you just shout, im all yours, free of charge

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    Re: Teach Me Something NEW!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Jivelad, anytime you want a one on one, you just shout, im all yours, free of charge
    Hey, you promised me a one-on-one. And, didn't you say that, if I did well, you and your sister would do two-on-one

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