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Thread: The tolerant Beliefs thread

  1. #101
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    bah you're too easy - i know nothing about this and could be knocked down to size by a mouse wielding a cotton-bud pudgel* stick


    * those things outta Gladiators, if thats how you spell it

    Ah now I know that I shall convert you to the church of woodface.

    Come join us in a world where Blues rooms dont exist. 2 tone shoes are banned and braces, hats and waistcoats are laughed at upon a dance floor.


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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Snippit from ITV news website


    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>A woman whose daughter was hospitalised in a US tornado told ITV News that "God would make her better."

    presumably, that's a different God from the one that almost killed her with a tornado.
    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    the god of tornados is a fickle god...the god of injured people struck down by tornados is lovely

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    the god of tornados is a fickle god...the god of injured people struck down by tornados is lovely
    Maybe he just had a change of mind.

    What about the God who always makes the numpties grab me for a dance a split second before the lass I've been waiting for ages to dance with does.

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    Maybe he just had a change of mind.

    What about the God who always makes the numpties grab me for a dance a split second before the lass I've been waiting for ages to dance with does.
    but the god of clothes drying is watching out for the people with wet clothes - it is them you must avoid young Woodface....

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    Maybe he just had a change of mind.

    What about the God who always makes the numpties grab me for a dance a split second before the lass I've been waiting for ages to dance with does.
    Ooooooo, politically incorrect or what!

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    {Religion} makes you want to fight. I makes you feel that you are right about it and everyone else is wrong.
    This depends very much on the particular religion in question. For example, I'm unaware of any wars that have been fought in the name of Buddhism.

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonjon View Post
    I believe there has been a great flood in every nation and religion
    I'm unaware of any Great Flood story in Buddhism, for example, and I am sure there are other religions that do not have that particular story. Last I checked the Great Flood story is supposed to have originated from the formation of the Black Sea, so it is natural than only religions descended from this region will have that story.

    It seems that many in Christian cultures have difficulty understanding that there are non-Christian religions. Thus, I am always disappointed to read commentary by those who purpose to be anti-religion, only to discover that they are in fact merely anti-Christian.

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Baruch View Post
    Why petulant?
    I’ll second that. RK, we eagerly await your response.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    Can anyone name a war that has not been over religion or beliefs?
    By beliefs, I’ll assume you mean religious beliefs. In which case, WW1 and WW2. Korea. Vietnam. Falklands. Gulf 1 & 2…need I go on?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    As I say I don't know that much about history.
    Clearly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Most wars are political. Religion can be a good reason to get people to fight, and to convince the populace that they have the moral high ground , but ultimately there is something to be gained by winning a war that is not religious in nature.
    Exactly. In the context of war, religion is generally used as an excuse by those who wish to proceed in a certain way and need some form of justification.

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper View Post
    I'm unaware of any Great Flood story in Buddhism, for example, and I am sure there are other religions that do not have that particular story. Last I checked the Great Flood story is supposed to have originated from the formation of the Black Sea, so it is natural than only religions descended from this region will have that story.
    Yeah, the only religions I know that have the particular story are Judaism and Christianity. Care to clarify, JJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper View Post
    It seems that many in Christian cultures have difficulty understanding that there are non-Christian religions. Thus, I am always disappointed to read commentary by those who purpose to be anti-religion, only to discover that they are in fact merely anti-Christian.

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by andystyle View Post
    Exactly. In the context of war, religion is generally used as an excuse by those who wish to proceed in a certain way and need some form of justification.
    Yeah, those who don't directly benefit from the money, land, oil etc need to be stirred up and "dissing" one's religion seems to be used a lot.

    I remember talking to a girl from Argentina after the falklands war and being amazed at the different story they got on their TV.

    Also when in Israel a few years ago I was interested to find what was happening locally quite different from what CNN and the World Service were putting out or allowing to air.

    The wars are created, they don't happen because some farmers who have never met disagree on religion and so send their sons to kill the other guy's sons. The "religion causing wars" idea is too often spread and gives all religions a bad image. Most people I have met who are religious in any faith have been genuinly interested in their fellow man and in helping him.

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by andystyle View Post
    Yeah, the only religions I know that have the particular story are Judaism and Christianity.
    Flood myths are far more widespread than that. For starters, here are two accounts that may have influenced or come from a similar source to the Genesis account:
    There are plenty of others listed here as well.

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>presumably, that's a different God from the one that almost killed her with a tornado.

    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    Why do people assume that God causes everything that happens? Last time I checked, tornados were naturally-occurring weather systems, not acts of divine punishment.

    When things go wrong, some people are quick to blame God. Why is it always assumed that he is the one who caused things to go wrong?

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    Can anyone name a war that has not been over religion or beliefs?
    To put the reverse question, can anyone name a war that has been fought for exclusively religious reasons?

    Religion may sometimes be used as an excuse or justification for war, or to try to persuade people to fight in the name of their god, but it is rarely if ever the prime reason for a war. More "worldly" matters such as survival, natural resources, politics and imperialism are more often the real reasons why wars happen.

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Baruch View Post
    Why do people assume that God causes everything that happens? Last time I checked, tornados were naturally-occurring weather systems, not acts of divine punishment.

    When things go wrong, some people are quick to blame God. Why is it always assumed that he is the one who caused things to go wrong?
    Can't speak for others, but I find myself having to point out that he always gets the credit for the good side of the ledger, so he really ought to carry the can for the bad side.

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Can't speak for others, but I find myself having to point out that he always gets the credit for the good side of the ledger, so he really ought to carry the can for the bad side.
    I'm sure theres a psychological term for that "he's responsible for the good but he's too good to be responsible for the bad" way of thinking when applied to partners, siblings etc... Dunno what it is actually called, but you could call it "flowery thinking" .

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Can't speak for others, but I find myself having to point out that he always gets the credit for the good side of the ledger, so he really ought to carry the can for the bad side.
    If you define God as ultimate good, then why should God be blamed for things that are not good? And why should he not be credited with at least some of the good things that happen if he is intrinsically good?

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Baruch View Post
    If you define God as ultimate good, then why should God be blamed for things that are not good?
    If a martial arts expert and 100% good person stood by whilst some drunkard with a knife stabbed a child to death, even though it was easily in his power to stop it... Would we still say he was 100% good ? Would we not blame him at all

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    If a martial arts expert and 100% good person stood by whilst some drunkard with a knife stabbed a child to death, even though it was easily in his power to stop it... Would we still say he was 100% good ? Would we not blame him at all
    It would depend upon what the reasons for him standing aside were. What if he somehow knew that the child would eventually become the next Hitler, and cause the death of millions? Would it then not be a good thing for the child to die to spare millions of others from death?

    I can understand the frustration/annoyance that people feel when God gets credited with good things (kittens, puppies and whisky) but not the bad (tornadoes, war and football). What gets to me is the continuing habit of people judging God with human perceptions...as God, is it not possible that He knows far more about any situation than we can, and act accordingly? We may not see the benefit, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by andystyle View Post
    It would depend upon what the reasons for him standing aside were. What if he somehow knew that the child would eventually become the next Hitler, and cause the death of millions? Would it then not be a good thing for the child to die to spare millions of others from death?

    I can understand the frustration/annoyance that people feel when God gets credited with good things (kittens, puppies and whisky) but not the bad (tornadoes, war and football). What gets to me is the continuing habit of people judging God with human perceptions...as God, is it not possible that He knows far more about any situation than we can, and act accordingly? We may not see the benefit, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.
    but then you are more or less admitting that short term evil is ok if its for the greater good - i.e. nothing DID happen to Hitler until he'd killed millions of innocent people. It doesnt surprise me that a lot of people find this hard to accept. Would believers really, on the death of their mother from a violent burgler with a knife, be happy with "it's for the greater good"?

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    but then you are more or less admitting that short term evil is ok if its for the greater good - i.e. nothing DID happen to Hitler until he'd killed millions of innocent people.
    What would you do if you were in the situation of being able to stop a child being killed but, knowing full well that if he lived, many more would die at his hands? Any evil is never 'ok', but it may be a necessary evil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    It doesnt surprise me that a lot of people find this hard to accept. Would believers really, on the death of their mother from a violent burgler with a knife, be happy with "it's for the greater good"?
    Christians believe that the world we live in is a fallen world, infected with sin, removed from God and under the power of Satan. Accordingly, when something bad happens, it shouldn't automatically be God's fault. Saying 'it's for the greater good' is only one possible explanation. The man killing the mother or the child - or anyone else, for that matter - may indeed be acting under the influence of God, for some better purpose. However, he may also be acting under the influence of Satan. He may be doing it for kicks, or a dare, or a bet. There may be no sense in his actions, and the poor unfortunate who is killed is just that...unfortunate. There are more explanations to unfortunate events than simply saying it's God's fault.

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