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Thread: The tolerant Beliefs thread

  1. #61
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkles View Post
    Fair enough, but I like baking cakes - it doesn't affect whether or not I feel I have more in common with other dancers if I know they also like baking cakes...
    But baking cakes probably isn't your philosophy for life and part of your world view - wheras believing in God can be.

  2. #62
    Registered User andystyle's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    Is it just me, or does this thread seem to be drifting away from the discussion of various beliefs in a tolerant environment, and is now drifting towards sticking pins into each others belief structures?

    People have died in the name of religion, but that is not really what this thread is discussing is it? Some religions discourage partner dancing, but that is not what this thread is discussing either is it? I was enjoying looking at the beliefs of others here, and now it looks like it's going to derail and head towards the usual ChitChat thread quagmire
    So we steer it back.

    There are a few Christians on the board - is there anyone here who follows another religion?

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    But baking cakes probably isn't your philosophy for life and part of your world view - wheras believing in God can be.
    Eating cakes as a philosophy for life and part of your world view is much more likely.

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by andystyle View Post
    So we steer it back.

    There are a few Christians on the board - is there anyone here who follows another religion?
    I'm something of a lions supporter

  5. #65
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn
    But baking cakes probably isn't your philosophy for life and part of your world view - wheras believing in God can be.
    All I meant was that it's about as relevant to dancing as what religion someone who goes dancing believes in.
    Do people who don't believe in a God think, when they go dancing and meet someone else who doesn't believe in a God, "That's nice, they don't believe in God either"?
    It just struck me as a strange thing to say, is all.


  6. #66
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkles View Post
    All I meant was that it's about as relevant to dancing as what religion someone who goes dancing believes in.
    Do people who don't believe in a God think, when they go dancing and meet someone else who doesn't believe in a God, "That's nice, they don't believe in God either"?
    It just struck me as a strange thing to say, is all.

    Yes, it sounds odd when you put it in the context of 'they don't believe in God'! But not believing in God isn't usually in itself a reason why people gather together and get to know one another. It could be because there is a community feeling within Christianity (called 'fellowship') and there is a similar community feeling within dancing?

    For example I met someone years ago through a Christian connection, with other friends, we spent time taking them to some sights in NI etc. This was several years before I had seen Ceroc. I then met him last year at Storm (and again this year) and that was nice. So I guess not only is it nice that some other dancers are Christians, for me its nice that some other Christians I know are dancers. It doesn't in any way affect how I dance with them, the amount of time I spend with them etc, its just an extra link of common shared passion.

  7. #67
    Registered User Ghost's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    Is it just me, or does this thread seem to be drifting away from the discussion of various beliefs in a tolerant environment, and is now drifting towards sticking pins into each others belief structures?

    People have died in the name of religion, but that is not really what this thread is discussing is it?
    Sorry if that's the way it came across

    There was a film called "Jesus" Jesus (1999) (TV) . which I feel answers the "people commiting attrocities in the name of religion" aspect but I'd be interested if anyone else has one.

    For those who haven't seen it, the scene is the Garden of Gethsemane. In the film the Devil comes to Christ and asks Him if humanity is worth sufferring and dying for? Now at this point the answer is obviously "Yes". But then the Devil shows him all the attrocities that people will do in Christ's name and repeats the question "Are they worth it? Your sacrifice will mean nothing. They will still kill and destroy and all your sufferring will have been for nothing" (This is the gist of the quote as I saw it 8 years ago and can't find the quote on Google).

    That's a much harder question and is what Chuck Austin is struggling with in his quote.

    To me the answer is still "Yes". You have to look at the good which is done as well. And I'm guessing that even if the result of Christ dying was that only a single soul in the entire of history might be saved, He'd still have done it.

    "There are three things that last: faith, hope and love, and the greatest of these is love." - Bible, I Corinthians 13:13

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    Registered User SuzyQ's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    It is just 'nice' to know other people in the dance scene are Christians. Probably means you have similar life experiences/ values/ points of view on stuff (actually given my slight black sheepness it probably means we'll have nothing in common at all!!).

    It also means that you probably won't get judged by them for believing in all those wacky things that you do !

    SuzyQ

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    Registered User Mezzosoprano's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Hello... I'm sorry to interrupt this very heated debate but..... the title of the thread did include the word's "tolerant belief" - I assumed that this meant that we would all play nice and be tolerant of other's beliefs..... did I miss the point??

  10. #70
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Before you ask, I'm an atheist like you, so I'm not defending the Christian view point. I'm just a little more 'tolerant' and 'respectful' of other people's beliefs and this is 'The tolerant beliefs thread' as has just been pointed out...

    Please Barry, respect this one quiet corner of the forum, let this peaceful and up until now interesting thread continue to be just that; peaceful and interesting. If you want to throw rocks at people's faith, please don't derail this thread, please start "The intolerant Beliefs thread", and beat your chest, spout rhetorical and hypothetical questions, and yell to your heart's content.

    Please..... pretty please..... with sugar on top... please
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    Omnipresent Administrator Franck's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post

    Please Barry, respect this one quiet corner of the forum, let this peaceful and up until now interesting thread continue to be just that; peaceful and interesting.
    I have moved the Tolerance vs Respect discussions to a new thread.
    Franck.

    There's an A.P.P. for that!

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    "There are three things that last: faith, hope and love, and the greatest of these is love." - Bible, I Corinthians 13:13
    Thanks Franck, there is hope...

  13. #73
    Registered User Baruch's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    And I'm guessing that even if the result of Christ dying was that only a single soul in the entire of history might be saved, He'd still have done it.
    Indeed. What Christ accomplished was to make salvation possible. It's as if he's opened the door, but people still have to choose whether or not to walk through it.

  14. #74
    Registered User Ghost's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Baruch View Post
    Indeed. What Christ accomplished was to make salvation possible. It's as if he's opened the door, but people still have to choose whether or not to walk through it.

    There's an old riddle which I always thought was designed by either sicientists to annoy the religious or philiosophers with too much time on their hands

    "Can God create something so heavy He can't lift it?"

    It struck me a few years ago that the answer may well be "free will"

  15. #75
    Registered User andystyle's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    There's an old riddle which I always thought was designed by either sicientists to annoy the religious or philiosophers with too much time on their hands

    "Can God create something so heavy He can't lift it?"
    I've not heard that before. Let me guess...it goes along the lines of a) God can't, therefore He isn't all-powerful or b) God can, but in being unable to lift it, He isn't all-powerful.

    Arguments like that annoy me. They don't serve to prove anything, as we can't know the answer, just run about in circles for the sake of running about in circles...How about yes, He can create something to heavy to lift. But in space, where there are no serious gravitational contraints...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    It struck me a few years ago that the answer may well be "free will"
    You could be onto something there!
    Last edited by andystyle; 19th-April-2007 at 03:03 PM. Reason: Clarification

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by andystyle View Post
    I've not heard that before. Let me guess...it goes along the lines of a) God can't, therefore He isn't all-powerful or b) God can, but in being unable to lift it, He isn't all-powerful.

    Arguments like that annoy me. They don't serve to prove anything, as we can't know the answer, just run about in circles for the sake of running about in circles...How about yes, He can create something to heavy to lift. But in space, where there are no serious gravitational contraints...
    Plus I think it is difficult to measure the immaterial in terms of the material.

  17. #77
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by andystyle View Post
    I've not heard that before. Let me guess...it goes along the lines of a) God can't, therefore He isn't all-powerful or b) God can, but in being unable to lift it, He isn't all-powerful.

    Arguments like that annoy me. They don't serve to prove anything, as we can't know the answer, just run about in circles for the sake of running about in circles...How about yes, He can create something to heavy to lift. But in space, where there are no serious gravitational contraints...
    That was sounding good until you ruined it with that last line You say we can't know the answer and then speculate about gravitational constraints

    The answer to "Can God create something so heavy He can't lift it?" is far simpler: Yes, he can create anything, but as the concepts of "heavy" and "lift" are human concepts bound to our material existence, they have no meaning for god. Its like saying "Can God create something so pink he can't juggle it?". Nonsense.

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    Registered User andystyle's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    That was sounding good until you ruined it with that last line You say we can't know the answer and then speculate about gravitational constraints
    Think of it more as a banal joke by an engineer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    The answer to "Can God create something so heavy He can't lift it?" is far simpler: Yes, he can create anything, but as the concepts of "heavy" and "lift" are human concepts bound to our material existence, they have no meaning for god. Its like saying "Can God create something so pink he can't juggle it?". Nonsense.
    Very well put!

  19. #79
    Registered User Ghost's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Ok I just got asked this

    If a person is insane and commits acts of grave evil (think sociopathic murderer) should they go to Hell? Or can they enter an insanity plea or what?

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    Registered User Baruch's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    If a person is insane and commits acts of grave evil (think sociopathic murderer) should they go to Hell? Or can they enter an insanity plea or what?
    Orthodox Christian belief is that any sin cuts us off from God, and thus by default all of us are headed towards damnation (however you define that - there is some debate) because we have all sinned. That's why Jesus came, died and rose from the dead: to provide a way by which our sins can be forgiven and we can be reconciled to God.

    In other words, Christian belief is that our eternal destiny is dependent not upon what we have or have not done, but upon what Jesus has done and our rection to it. The Bible says that "There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." (Romans 3:22b-23)

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