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Thread: The tolerant Beliefs thread

  1. #21
    Commercial Operator StokeBloke's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Clueless View Post
    I have been keeping this to my self for a while and I hope no-one rips me apart claiming I am 'trying to destroy peoples beliefs' I just would like a couple of answers and some guidance on what to believe
    Faith is belief without proof. An inner knowledge of something. Questioning peoples reasoning and beliefs will only upset their faith if their faith was not strong in the first place. In fact Jesus said in his sermon on the mount, to "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves...". Examining what is being told to you is not bad, it is exactly what Jesus counselled (I only use the example of Christ here because you said you are a Christian).

    As for your questions. I have heard it said that the seven days of creation are symbolic of seven distinct periods - rather than seven literal 24 hour days. Is this true? Does that make sense? These are things you need to ask yourself. As for Darwinism. I have seen lots of evidence for species becoming varied in look. But I have never seen any evidence of anything in a transitional stage from one species to another. Yet this is supposed to have happened over millions of years. So why isn't there one single fossil to back up the THEORY of evolution? Where is this aptly named missing link? There should be thousands - no?

    As far as guidance for what to believe. Trust no one, suspect everything, and when you are taught something ask yourself on a very basic level 'does that make sense?'. What I have said above.... question that too. You won't find answers, you will only ever find more questions

    StokeGuru

  2. #22
    Papa Smurf
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    any god or a particular god?
    No, nothing to do with gods at all, you're missing the point. The quotes are all variations of "Treating others the way you want to be treated". I'm saying I disagree with this statement because everyone has a different idea of what good treatment would be.

    examples:

    A women who thinks her role in life is to be subservient to her husband, will believe that others should be treated the same. Other women may disagree, but "subservient woman" will do her utmost to pass laws etc.. to "help" other women toward this goal.

    A religious person who firmly believes that Allah IS in everyones life may happily agree to establishing an Islamic Theocracy in the UK for the benefit of all, the glory of god and the establisment of gods one true law - its how they would want to be treated is there is no conflict with the statement.

    And a sado masochist will happily beat people up knowing he likes nothing more than to be treated like that.

    Ultimately if you want to be treated in a bizarre, immoral fashion then "treating others as you would like to be treated" is not a maxim the general public who meet you are likely to agree with

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    Forcing your beliefs upon someone is in no way respectful.
    Perhaps I shouldnt have used the word "forced" . If I firmly believe that all people should be ritually killed at age 50 to happily join their ancesters and I go round helping 50 year olds "join" their ancesters, then I wouldnt see this as "forcing" anything as I would be doing them a big favour. And treating them how I would want to be treated at age 50.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShinyWeeStar View Post
    Bombarding somebody with religious (or indeed any) doctrine because you* want them to believe the same thing you believe isn't the same as treating others as you wish to be treated... after all, you wouldn't want them to force their beliefs onto you, would you?
    Thats not the point. YOU know you are correct in your beliefs and you KNOW that if you didnt have that belief, which you know without doubt is the correct one, you WOULD want people to do their utmost to give you that belief. This causes a lot of problems in the world when people do not entertain the fact that they may be wrong. Note I am NOT talking about religion, its just something a lot of humans do about lots of different beliefs.

    Note Im not criticising anyone (and not trying to derail a perfectly good thread), but those statements are not particularly good rules to live life by. A better statement is "treat others how they WANT to be treated, not how I think they do. Even if Im 100% sure". So thats MY motto, even if Stokeblokes is something else

  3. #23
    Commercial Operator StokeBloke's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    OK DS. You have thoroughly made your point that you disagree with the way I live my life. Fair enough - each to their own and all that. But you haven't actually mentioned your beliefs - which is what this thread is about.

    So, would you care to share?

  4. #24
    Registered User Baruch's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    I'm a Christian from an evangelical/pentecostal background, though I don't fit easily into that mould now. My theology is a bit broader-based as a result of having discussed, debated and worked with people from a wide range of Christian denominations.

    On the non-controversial (to most Christians) side, I believe Jesus was born to a virgin mother, performed miracles, died to take away the sins of the world and was raised physically from the dead two days later. I believe that he was and is fully divine and fully human. In fact, I believe everything in the Nicene Creed and the Apostles' Creed.

    On the controversial (to some Christians) side I believe in evolution, I believe the book of Jonah and certain other parts of the Bible (e.g. the creation myths of the first two chapters of Genesis and the flood story)are not literal history, and were not necessarily intended to be taken as such by their authors.

    I believe God can heal people today, though I also believe that divine healing is much, much rarer than some people would have us believe. I abhor the kind of belief which is propounded by certain televangelists, which makes Christianity nothing more than a religion for the affluent and a get-rich-quick scheme.

    That should be enough to start with.

  5. #25
    Papa Smurf
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    OK DS. You have thoroughly made your point that you disagree with the way I live my life. Fair enough - each to their own and all that. But you haven't actually mentioned your beliefs - which is what this thread is about.

    So, would you care to share?
    you got bored with my post and didn't read to the end didnt you

    You also missed "Note Im not criticising anyone". I was giving reasons why I wouldnt use that as a philosophy not why you shouldnt.

  6. #26
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Note Im not criticising anyone (and not trying to derail a perfectly good thread), but those statements are not particularly good rules to live life by. A better statement is "treat others how they WANT to be treated, not how I think they do. Even if Im 100% sure". So thats MY motto, even if Stokeblokes is something else
    Well apart from the fact that your motto actually doesn't make any sense in how you've written, it also doesn't make any sense in how it could be interpreted. Take your example of a sado-masochist - under your motto we should treat them how they would want to be treated right? This means that we should physically abuse them and allow them to physically abuse us because that is how they would want to be treated...

    Err.... think there's a flaw there...

    Actually a better motto is to be respectful of others and to be sensitive to their needs and aspirations. But in all cases to be true to yourself.

    Obviously that doesn't apply to public forums

  7. #27
    Papa Smurf
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    Yet this is supposed to have happened over millions of years. So why isn't there one single fossil to back up the THEORY of evolution? Where is this aptly named missing link? There should be thousands - no?
    No. And why the capitals for THEORY, its almost as if you think "theory" in the scientific context means "not fact" when it doesn't. It means "up to date, logically tested, facts".

    As for the missing link concept, its largely false : each species changes until eventually it becomes a different one i.e there are shades of grey when you talk about different species and its difficult to say where one ends and another begins. So no, you would not expect to see "missing links".

    see here for more info.

  8. #28
    B.O.G.O.F. fletch's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Actually a better motto is to be respectful of others and to be sensitive to their needs and aspirations. But in all cases to be true to yourself.

    Obviously that doesn't apply to public forums





    oy! I think your nicking MY saying hear Rocky



  9. #29
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    As for your questions. I have heard it said that the seven days of creation are symbolic of seven distinct periods - rather than seven literal 24 hour days. Is this true? Does that make sense? These are things you need to ask yourself.
    I personally don't believe in God. However, if you combine Einstein's Theory of Relativity with the concept of the 7 days of creation it all could make sense. This is because in Relativity moments in time are relative to the observer (it's actually more complex than that, but that's the jist of it). Therefore if God were truly a being outside of the Universe, and therefore outside of our perception of space and time, a day could actually be equal to 2 billion years in 'His' perception of time. 7 days therefore equals 14 billion years and hey presto...


    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    As for Darwinism. I have seen lots of evidence for species becoming varied in look. But I have never seen any evidence of anything in a transitional stage from one species to another. Yet this is supposed to have happened over millions of years. So why isn't there one single fossil to back up the THEORY of evolution? Where is this aptly named missing link? There should be thousands - no?
    I'm afraid that's an old chestnut that doesn't really stand up to examination. The reality is that it is incredibly difficult to create the right conditions to allow organic matter to fossilise naturally. If you then add into the mix that the Earths crust has moved significantly over the last 4 billion years you end up with a scenario where the few fossils that have been preserved of said 'missing link' may actually be under several thousand feet of water.

    I think the figure is that around only 1% of the all the fossils believed to exist have been discovered to date. So I completely understand where your view point comes from. However, the fact that these fossils DO exist more than suggests an evolutionary past that connects them in one way or another. In addition, as science has moved on significantly in the last 100 years, it has been possible to extract an extraordinary amount of data from these fossils. This allows scientist to make fairly accurate representations of what these creatures may have looked like, what they would have eaten and even how they may have behaved in their environment.

    Further, as regards the 'missing link', if one looks at the DNA and skeletal structures of apes and humans combined with their behavioural patterns, the evidence does overwhemingly suggests that we do share a common ancestor.

    The crux of this is that you need to bear in mind that the fossil record is a red herring. If humanity were to be wiped out in its entirety by, say, a virus over a short period of time, in 4 billion years from now it's likely that there wouldn't a single trace of our existence.... and yet we DO exist... for now...

  10. #30
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post


    oy! I think your nicking MY saying hear Rocky


    Was I??? A thousand apologies oh big breasted one... Great minds and all that.. How about this then.. 'Be respectful of others and be sensitive to their needs and aspirations. But in all cases be true to yourself AND don't tealeaf other people's motos.'

    How's that?

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    B.O.G.O.F. fletch's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Was I??? A thousand apologies oh big breasted one... Great minds and all that.. How about this then.. 'Be respectful of others and be sensitive to their needs and aspirations. But in all cases be true to yourself AND don't tealeaf other people's motos.'

    How's that?
    better



  12. #32
    Registered User jiveknight's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    We have Two Rules for Happy Living:

    1. Be able to experience anything.

    2. Cause only those things which others can experience easily.

  13. #33
    B.O.G.O.F. fletch's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jiveknight View Post
    We have Two Rules for Happy Living:

    1. Be able to experience anything.

    2. Cause only those things which others can experience easily.
    Hi babes,


    I know im blond but can you explain this in a bit more detail,in words that a blond will understand

  14. #34
    Commercial Operator StokeBloke's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    I know im blond but can you explain this in a bit more detail,in words that a blond will understand
    Ummm I'm dark haired and I don't understand it either

  15. #35
    Not a spoon! Lou's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    A better statement is "treat others how they WANT to be treated, not how I think they do.
    Nice one. It's more respectful. I was disappointed to see that StokeBloke's original list had one glaring omission:

    "Be excellent to one another... and party on, dudes" - Abraham Lincoln (via Bill & Ted )

  16. #36
    Registered User SuzyQ's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    I'm a Christian too ... though not attending church at the moment and probably not managing to live a very saintly life!!

    The last year and a half has been a bit tough in terms of 'keeping the faith' but when all is said and done I can't get away from the fact that I was converted and that life makes absolutely no sense to me without God. Once you are converted you can run but you can't hide:

    Psalm 139 (7-10): "Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast."

    I also believe that I was healed from migraines and depression when I was 17 and I believe in the power of prayer for healing. But you don't always get everything you ask for because we don't always know what is best for us and often fail to have the long view!

    Nice to hear of more Christian dancers out there!

    SuzyQ

  17. #37
    Registered User jiveknight's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    Hi babes,


    I know im blond but can you explain this in a bit more detail,in words that a blond will understand
    Sorry babes, and please excuse my slow reply I was at the 100 Club last night till late.

    How about;

    "Try not to do things to others that you would not like them to do to you!

    "Try to treat others as you would want them to treat you".


    It is our version of the previously debated "Golden Rule" (from "The Way to Happiness - a common sense guide to better living").

  18. #38
    Registered User jiveknight's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Good to see there are so many Christians on the Forum. Welcome to the thread where you can discuss this freely!


    "Respect the religious beliefs of others".




    P.S. Help! My smilies aren't working, anyone know why that may be?

  19. #39
    B.O.G.O.F. fletch's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jiveknight View Post
    Sorry babes, and please excuse my slow reply I was at the 100 Club last night till late.

    How about;

    "Try not to do things to others that you would not like them to do to you!

    "Try to treat others as you would want them to treat you".


    It is our version of the previously debated "Golden Rule" (from "The Way to Happiness - a common sense guide to better living").
    thank you

    I like the 'Golden Rule'





  20. #40
    Dickie Davies' love-child Cruella's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jiveknight View Post
    P.S. Help! My smilies aren't working, anyone know why that may be?
    Obviously it's divine intervention.

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