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Thread: The tolerant Beliefs thread

  1. #201
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jiveknight View Post
    Ah, then what are his "non-beliefs"?
    Wow. Metaphysics.

    Er - I think DS has this pegged. What are you after - a list of things I don't believe in?

    For me, belief is a 'non-issue'. I believe that I am a good dancer, but of course, there is another sense in which we 'believe' things. People will often say (in discussions similar to this one, not over a lunchtime drink!) things like 'I believe when I get home my flat will still exist but I can't prove it', but that's probably not correct. What is more correct is 'I don't give it any thought at all', and 'If I do give it any thought I probably feel that common-sense tells me I shouldn't waste any more time thinking about it'.

    I proceed on the basis that no supernatural 'anythings' are necessary for the operation of the universe and certainly none impinge on my life. So I give belief no thought.

    Except in the sense that people's beliefs in supernatural things can be everything from a source of hilarity to a downright bl°°dy nuisance and on to engendering a sense of outrage on other people's behalf.

    Incidentally, I see that Jonathan Edwards is now an atheist...

    ...one down, millions to go.

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Thats a strange question. Fairies, Aliens, Cheese Monsters - the list is probably endless ! but I wouldnt want to put words in his mouth
    I think I probably do believe in aliens, I just don't think they are crossing the almost infinite gulfs of interstellar space in order to carry out weird abductions of people and carry out strange operations on cattle.

    I think that the cost of interstellar travel are such that it will only be possible in theory or in times of desperation, for instance the imminent destruction of a home-planet. (Step forwared, Kal-el!) If it became possible, I think we'd be anxious to make contact with another race, not pit-pat around in the undergrowth going "boo-ga-boo-ga-boo!" I suspect alien species will have similar ideas.

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Sadly I don't respect Scientology, so I won't discuss it in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by jiveknight View Post
    Ah, then what are his "non-beliefs"?
    As a general note, I have more success getting strong atheists to discuss their belief systems when I ask philosophical questions, rather than asking them what they believe in directly. For example, questions such as "why is there something instead of nothing?" or "how should I live my life?" often, after some prodding, elicit answers.

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper View Post
    Sadly I don't respect Scientology, so I won't discuss it in this thread.


    It's easy to say you won't discuss something because you don't respect it. It's a bit harder to say why you don't respect it and put your reasons out into the cold light of day for all to see and comment on.

    That sort of statement is a bit out-of-order and achieves nothing, IMHO.

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by andystyle View Post
    It's easy to say you won't discuss something because you don't respect it.
    I won't discuss it here. This is the tolerant beliefs thread.

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by andystyle View Post


    It's easy to say you won't discuss something because you don't respect it. It's a bit harder to say why you don't respect it and put your reasons out into the cold light of day for all to see and comment on.

    That sort of statement is a bit out-of-order and achieves nothing, IMHO.
    no it isnt - people have already been criticised for doing exactly that in this thread - MH is quite right to leave it for elsewhere.

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper View Post
    As a general note, I have more success getting strong atheists to discuss their belief systems when I ask philosophical questions, rather than asking them what they believe in directly. For example, questions such as "why is there something instead of nothing?" or "how should I live my life?" often, after some prodding, elicit answers.
    The answer to your first question is 'why not?'.

    The answer to your second question is 'if it is not obvious to you, then you are a sociopath'.

    Next? (he said, brightly!)

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    Registered User jiveknight's Avatar
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Wow. Metaphysics.

    Er - I think DS has this pegged. What are you after - a list of things I don't believe in?

    For me, belief is a 'non-issue'. I believe that I am a good dancer, but of course, there is another sense in which we 'believe' things. People will often say (in discussions similar to this one, not over a lunchtime drink!) things like 'I believe when I get home my flat will still exist but I can't prove it', but that's probably not correct. What is more correct is 'I don't give it any thought at all', and 'If I do give it any thought I probably feel that common-sense tells me I shouldn't waste any more time thinking about it'.

    I proceed on the basis that no supernatural 'anythings' are necessary for the operation of the universe and certainly none impinge on my life. So I give belief no thought.

    Except in the sense that people's beliefs in supernatural things can be everything from a source of hilarity to a downright bl°°dy nuisance and on to engendering a sense of outrage on other people's behalf.

    Incidentally, I see that Jonathan Edwards is now an atheist...

    ...one down, millions to go.
    I used "non-beliefs" as belief didn't fit but meant I guess what is your stance on the "ultimate type of thing we are talking about stuff"...

    Like, What do you think, believe, happens when you/your body dies?

    Do you believe, think it is possible to help people?

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    no it isnt - people have already been criticised for doing exactly that in this thread - MH is quite right to leave it for elsewhere.
    If MH feels he can't post his views on Scientology as it would go outwith the nature of this particular thread, and accordingly doesn't post, then to him. However, IMHO there is no point to posting that he won't post his views. Might as well not post in the first place (or start another thread).

    I'd like to make clear I'm not having a personal dig at MH. I'd make the same point regardless of who had posted.

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jiveknight View Post
    Like, What do you think, believe, happens when you/your body dies?
    It is much better when you actually ask a specific question. You die and you are no more - hopefully people remember you and say "he was alright"

    Do you believe, think it is possible to help people?
    Help people ? We all do that, all the time to some degree.
    Last edited by David Bailey; 29th-June-2007 at 10:38 AM.

  11. #211
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    It is much better when you actually ask a specific question. You die and you are no more - hopefully people remember you and say "he was alright"
    Ok.
    Who or what is "you"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Help people ? We all do that, all the time to some degree.
    True, to some degree. I think that different people react differently to help and this can affect thier ability to help or accept help - example for someone too many times offered help has turned out to be a betrayal of some kind and thus they are wary of help.

    Or, you try to help someone and it doesn't work or they reject it.

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jiveknight View Post
    Ok.
    Who or what is "you"?
    Me and anyone who agrees with me.

    Or, you try to help someone and it doesn't work or they reject it.
    But you're still trying to help. Its a natural human thing to do and exists separate from any relgious thoughts on the matter.

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jiveknight View Post
    Like, What do you think, believe, happens when you/your body dies?

    Do you believe, think it is possible to help people?
    The way I would put it is that I will die, but my body will simply cease to function. After that, I will take no part in anything whatsoever, I will cease to exist (ring up the curtain invisibule...)

    Yes, it is possible to help people, but not always and not all people.

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jiveknight View Post
    Ok.
    Who or what is "you"?
    In the terms of this debate "I am". That may seem flippant but on this occasion the trite answer is the appropriate one. One can go down the philosophical route and say 'How do you know you exist, what is the essence of 'me', and so forth. These are interesting questions but their answers are not critical to the issues of moral philosophy, such as 'how should we live our life'?

    True, to some degree. I think that different people react differently to help and this can affect thier ability to help or accept help - example for someone too many times offered help has turned out to be a betrayal of some kind and thus they are wary of help.

    Or, you try to help someone and it doesn't work or they reject it.
    I must be missing something, but isn't all that self-evident? Can you explain more the point you are making?

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    In the terms of this debate "I am". That may seem flippant but on this occasion the trite answer is the appropriate one. One can go down the philosophical route and say 'How do you know you exist, what is the essence of 'me', and so forth. These are interesting questions but their answers are not critical to the issues of moral philosophy, such as 'how should we live our life'?
    This I agree with. I guess the difference being I think that the "I am" is not necessarily material as such. Although as you imply this doesn't matter from a function point of view.

    (I'll answer the others later, three gigs yesterday and on the way to Pigalle now).

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    anyone want to join the e-petition to have Scientology become a recognised religion?
    add yourself here
    why ? surely we don't want more religions ? well i think the whole concept of recoginsed religions is a bit of side path away from where this country should be going - namely, people being treated equally. It should be no business of government who belongs to what religion, and, in lieu of there being NO recognised religions I submit we have a lot more. Starting with a religion Tom Cruise and The Jive Aces believe in. I know them personally. Ok, well not Tom, but I'd know him if I met him


    Incidentally I think its amusing that one of the signees put "Luke - but it isn't a religion. It has nothing to do with God - has it!?" as if only HIS concept of God makes something a religion. Buddhists must be peacefully meditating about that.


    er...so....

    who's with me ?


    ...just me then ?

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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    er...so....

    who's with me ?


    ...just me then ?
    I don't care if it's a recognised religion as long as it never obtains a charitable status.

  18. #218
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    Re: The tolerant Beliefs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    ...just me then ?
    No, of course not - there are 8 whole people who agree with you.

    Practically a majority, by New Labour polling standards.

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