The tolerant Beliefs thread

[jiveknight]

Inspired by Lynn on the "something amazing..." thread...

Here is a thread where forumites can put forward, discuss and debate their beliefs (or un-beliefs) in a tolerant manner if they wish.

The purpose is to bring greater understanding of each others' beliefs (or un-beliefs)

There a couple of agreements that you are asked to adhere to wherever possible:

1. Please don't jump on another's belief (or un-belief) and/or post and invalidate it. (It is their belief and your opinion shouldn't have to change this - at least not on this thread) but obviously discuss your agreement or disagreement while still respecting their right to believe or disbelieve as they see fit.

2. Where possible please put forward your beliefs or arguments in layman's terms, normal language - obviously religions etc as with many other subjects
have their nomenclature (own special words) so if you have to write a specific term to convey your concept please "translate" this.

(Examples - In Scientology the word "Thetan" means basically the spirit, the being himself, and I'm sure there are many words in Judaism that I wouldn't understand).

Oh, and if possible please resist the temptation to jump pedantically on a post for misssspelling etc if it doesn't actually affect the concept being communicated.

These are my suggestions, if you see eye to eye with them let's find out more about each other.

Cheers! Ian

[fletch]

do you meen like this

I have put it on the 'what have you learned in the last 24 hours' thread, I wasn't sure where to put it

I'm not sure if my post is up for discussion, and i don't normally talk about my religious beliefs, I don't think this is a belief, and I won't be using big words.


my psychic encounters are getting much more frequent, and are happening in front of Joe more than Maddie.

My dead farther who's name was Joseph James Fletcher has started to visit me while my son is around who's name is also Joseph James Fletcher and was named after him.

Last night Maddie went to a hooller party and after picking Joe up from 'Cubs' I said come on Joe get into mommy's bed to watch TV for a bit were on our own tonight, we were both at the top of the stairs chatting, and the TV on my bedroom turned its self on really loud, the last channel I was listening to was the radio through it, and it switched on channel 3 (football) I hate the football dad loved it and we all had to watch it, we only had one TV in those days, me and Joe both laughed, Joe said that's granddad isn't it, I said yes he just want us to know we aren't on our own and he thinks he can come with us to watch the football, sorry dad no chance, we had the Hulk on.


Its funny cos when I was about Joe's age 9 I completely freaked out and couldn't be left on my own even during the day at home, and I kept talking to '???' my granddad I suspect saying please don't show me a sign I can't handle it, the signs I get now don't scare me at all, I actually feel a warmth when I get one.

[CJ]

"A Jedi's strength flows from the force. He uses this power only for defence and wisdom, never for attack."

[jiveknight]

So far, so good...

May the Force be with you both!

[StokeBloke]

I believe in me. How did I get here and why am I here? I dunno! It really doesn't seem that important - what is important is where I am going, and how I get there. I try to treat people in a fair and reasonable manner - it hinges on mutual respect. Some may liken this way of living to the Golden Rule often quoted from Matthew 7:12. But in reality it is just the basis for an ethical, low impact way of living. It is with this air of tolerance that I have raised my children, live my life and go about my day-to-day business. But those biblical words are echoed across many faiths, they are NOT just the wise words of Christ, but the wise council of many prophets and gods:

"Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself: I am the LORD." Torah Leviticus 19:18

"When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." — Torah Leviticus 19:33-34

"All human morality is contained in these words: make others as happy as you yourself would be, and never serve them more ill than you would yourself be served." - Marquis de Sade

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." — Jesus (c. 5 BCE—33 CE) in the Gospels, Matthew 7:12, Luke 6:31, Luke 10:27

"None of you truly believes until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself." — Muhammad (c. 571 – 632 CE) in a Hadith.


<DT>"Treat others the way you want to be treated" John Lee Hooker <DT> <DT>
"This is the sum of duty; do naught unto others what you would not have them do unto you." — Mahabharata (5:15:17) (c. 500 BCE)

"What you do not wish upon yourself, extend not to others." — Confucius (ca. 551–479 BCE)

"What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man." — Hillel (ca. 50 BCE-10 CE)

I was raised in a deeply religious family, and it's fair to say it has scarred me for life. Mainstream religion has it's uses I am sure - I just can't think of any! You believe your thing, I will believe in mine. I will not try to dissuade you from your reality and belief tunnel... but likewise, please don't prosletise or evangelise around me. It makes me feel physically nauseous.

I am not a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Jedi, Buddist, Scientologist, Mormon, Spiritualist, Jehovah Witness or Satanist, I am just me. Muddling through as best I can without resorting to someone else's script.

Damn, a serious post.... better not make a habit of that!

</DT>

[fletch]

I am not a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Jedi, Buddist, Scientologist, Mormon, Spiritualist, Jehovah Witness or Satanist, I am just me. Muddling through as best I can without resorting to someone else's script.

Damn, a serious post.... better not make a habit of that!

</DT>

WOW! Stokie i'm shocked

just shows you never know

I think we should have gone dancing



My grandfather ran away from Farther Hudson's homes to be a boy solider in 1914 after the nun's had whipped him so badly he still had the scars on his back the day he died, and I think because of what happened to him in the trenches, your post would be the type of thing he would have written, if he was around to do it,he never talked about what happened, he loved everyone and only ever sore the good in people, when he died he went up stairs singing 'i'd like to teach the world to sing' the old Pepsi advert where there were all nations standing together, he loved it, it was everything he was about.

he was my first guardian angel

[Dreadful Scathe]

So far, so good...

May the Force be with you both!

The force is with us all Having bested CJ in a lightsaber battle I can claim it's slightly stronger with me.

Im dreading the day I hear...

... "Aaah Dreadful Scathe... when I left you, I was but the learner; now I am the master.”

“Only a master of evil, CJ. Aaaaargh”

[Mezzosoprano]

I'm a Christian....I believe in God (there's one for the whole lot of us is my theory) and that Jesus died for my sins (although I'm very interested in the whole did die/did not die theories and of course the bloodline of Christ texts)

Although... I do have leanings towards the Jedi beliefs... suspect there's no mediclorians in my blood though. Some more cynical forumites who know me may be tempted to say that I am about the same height as Yoda.... they are wrong... I'm a little bit taller...

[andystyle]

I'm a Christian....I believe in God (there's one for the whole lot of us is my theory) and that Jesus died for my sins (although I'm very interested in the whole did die/did not die theories and of course the bloodline of Christ texts)

I am also a Christian, which may not come as a surprise! I have been for about 4 years now - it's not the easiest path, but I do believe it is the most rewarding.

[Lynn]

Hands up as another Christian!

I know people on here have a wide range of different beliefs and I think its great Jiveknight has started a thread where we can discuss and share them without insisting that everyone sees things the same way as us and without belittling another person for what they believe.

And it doesn't mean we are lacking in intelligence or understanding for believing in Someone/something greater than ourselves!

[Astro]

Show me a non sexist religion and I will show you a horse that can fly......

[Mac]

Im not religouse but I try to respect all faiths

and I admit that this is hard sometimes. especially in these times of conflict

But I have one phrase that helps me through my day to day working life and trust me, I work with some very radical people!!

I qouted the phrase from Egans book "The skilled Helper" . Its

LOVE THE SINNER IF NOT THE SIN.

I remind myself of the phrase constantly but actually it wasnt Egan. ... It was Jesus!!

[jiveknight]

But those biblical words are echoed across many faiths, they are NOT just the wise words of Christ, but the wise council of many prophets and gods:

"Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself: I am the LORD." Torah Leviticus 19:18

"When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." — Torah Leviticus 19:33-34

"All human morality is contained in these words: make others as happy as you yourself would be, and never serve them more ill than you would yourself be served." - Marquis de Sade

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." — Jesus (c. 5 BCE—33 CE) in the Gospels, Matthew 7:12, Luke 6:31, Luke 10:27

"None of you truly believes until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself." — Muhammad (c. 571 – 632 CE) in a Hadith.


<DT>"Treat others the way you want to be treated" John Lee Hooker <DT> <DT>
"This is the sum of duty; do naught unto others what you would not have them do unto you." — Mahabharata (5:15:17) (c. 500 BCE)

"What you do not wish upon yourself, extend not to others." — Confucius (ca. 551–479 BCE)

"What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man." — Hillel (ca. 50 BCE-10 CE)

Damn, a serious post.... better not make a habit of that!

</DT>

Great! Definitely a common purpose. Did you chance upon them or look for them on purpose?

[Dreadful Scathe]

"Treat others the way you want to be treated" John Lee Hooker

This belief is the very cause of some of the worlds problems and I dont subscribe to it at all. When someones inerpretation of this is "I must force god upon you, because thats what I would want" its no liner a clever phrase

[fletch]

This belief is the very cause of some of the worlds problems and I dont subscribe to it at all. When someones inerpretation of this is "I must force god upon you, because thats what I would want" its no liner a clever phrase

I read this phrase as more like how you want people to behave towards you not, enforcing a chain of though onto someone, because you want a certain chain of thought forced onto you.

am I wrong or have I missed the point

[Dreadful Scathe]

I read this phrase as more like how you want people to behave towards you

Yes indeed, thus "because that's what I would want".

[fletch]

any god or a particular god?

is it this is what I believe but you might believe something different

[StokeBloke]

This belief is the very cause of some of the worlds problems and I dont subscribe to it at all. When someones inerpretation of this is "I must force god upon you, because thats what I would want" its no liner a clever phrase

So, quick, phone the pope, it seems that John Lee Hooker was no prophet after all

I'm not sure anyone would say they want anything forced upon them - regardless of their denomination. I also think that you are seeing the words of the phrase but (purposely?) missing the underlying meaning. Although semantically it's a fair point you make... to a point.

As I said in the previous post "I try to treat people in a fair and reasonable manner - it hinges on mutual respect." I respect others and in return I only ask for respect back. Forcing your beliefs upon someone is in no way respectful.

[ShinyWeeStar]

I read this phrase as more like how you want people to behave towards you

That's how I understand it too.

This belief is the very cause of some of the worlds problems and I dont subscribe to it at all. When someones inerpretation of this is "I must force god upon you, because thats what I would want" its no liner a clever phrase

Yes indeed, thus "because that's what I would want".

Surely then it's their (mis)interpretation of the phrase that is the cause of the problem rather than the phrase itself? Bombarding somebody with religious (or indeed any) doctrine because you* want them to believe the same thing you believe isn't the same as treating others as you wish to be treated... after all, you wouldn't want them to force their beliefs onto you, would you?

(*I'm using "you" in the general sense here )

[Clueless]

I am a Christian but since going to uni and studying a science related degree I find it hard to get my head round the old testament.

A part in me wants to believe that there was a god and made the heaven, earth and animals all in 7 days, but another part in me just says it inst possible..look at the theory of Evolution. Though one scientist has said (Name escapes me, but it in the first few pages of "Charles Darwin - The theory of evolution through natural selection") "We have the words of god,now let us understand the works of god" but is still leaves me wondering.

I do believe there is a higher spirit whether he is a god or something I don't know, but there are other times I wonder if there is anything at all and religion is a thing humans created for comfort and security.

Though Jesus, in the bible he goes from being a young kid to being a 30 year old man what happened in his Adolescence? I think he has a had a child and some hardcore Christians are unwilling to accept the fact even though Jesus was the son of god he was still a man and I personally think he hooked up with someone.

There are also a questions I would like to raise relation to our lord. If he is all caring and forging and looks after us all how come there is still Famine, death and poverty going around the world? Surely if were all his children he would look after us all the same?

I have been keeping this to my self for a while and I hope no-one rips me apart claiming I am 'trying to destroy peoples beliefs' I just would like a couple of answers and some guidance on what to believe