Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 41 to 49 of 49

Thread: is this ridiculous or what ? (pt 93)

  1. #41
    Registered User Mary's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    West London
    Posts
    1,717
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: is this ridiculous or what ? (pt 93)

    Quote Originally Posted by Baruch View Post
    Indeed. It may sound like a noble ideal, but there is no such thing as unbiased teaching of history. Such a thing would be impossible.
    I agree.

    As you are a teacher you have my admiration. That's one helluva job. My brother and sister-in-law are both teachers - but they are bonkers.

    Maybe one of the important things to teach is to keep asking questions.

    M

  2. #42
    Registered User Baruch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Pontllanfraith
    Posts
    2,261
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: is this ridiculous or what ? (pt 93)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mary View Post
    My brother and sister-in-law are both teachers - but they are bonkers.
    That's a prerequisite of the job!

  3. #43
    Registered User killingtime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    2,406
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: is this ridiculous or what ? (pt 93)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mary View Post
    Take the horrific experiments carried out at Birkenau. In this day and age people feel they should be able to have routine surgical opertions as a right - this would not be possible if those atrocities had not been carried out. So can 'good' come from 'evil'?
    There is no way to say that. Much scientific research has been based in miltary interest (Star Wars leading to lots of practical Laser use for example). However if we all lived in peace and harmony then I think we'd have come to at least the same scientific advancements if not more. Perhaps that's the path that lead us here now but we'd never know the "if this didn't happen" path. Of course things like the ethical issues behind research done in a time of war is really fascinating (for me anyway) and I think would make for great topics to involve students to debate around. I don't thinks we should shy away from this to insure we don't offend people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    ...Italy to apologise for the terrible wrongs committed by the legions of Rome?
    Yeah! What did the Romans ever give us?

  4. #44
    Papa Smurf
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Planet Scathe
    Posts
    12,528
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: is this ridiculous or what ? (pt 93)

    Quote Originally Posted by Baruch View Post
    Indeed. It may sound like a noble ideal, but there is no such thing as unbiased teaching of history. Such a thing would be impossible.
    I disagree. All the facts, as you say, cannot be known, but where anyone refers to "all the facts" in discussion I assume they mean "all the facts we currently have". Simply put, thats what children should learn in school. The material that teachers teach from may well be biased,being based, ultimately, on the suspect thoughts/experiences of people involved in it. But the teaching of said material should be presented openly, critically and completely unbiased by teachers. If the curriculum introduces a bias, or books do, thats bad enough and is not an excuse for teachers to "vary" their classes. History is an interesting subject that is so open to interpretation it's one of the best subjects to give children a grounding in critical thinking and free thought. Teachers introducing their own agenda should be shot. Or at least mutilated by rabid dogs...

    or if I'm in a bad mood - made to watch Torchwood.

  5. #45
    Registered User DianaS's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Lying in the gutte
    Posts
    1,477
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: is this ridiculous or what ? (pt 93)

    Quote Originally Posted by andystyle View Post
    *chokes on drink*



    Phew!

    *Dreaful Scathe suggest?

    You have not answered my question. H History is based on well documented facts , NOT opinion. Whatever anyone thinks of Jews, Nazis or anyone else does not alter the facts of history.:

    Tell me More About Adolf Hitler and WWII (fact or fantasy? DianaS comments.However Hitler was propably not a good christian)
    The planning of the Second World War started when Adolf Hitler joined a secret society called the Thule Society in 1919. It was in this group that he found the perverted beliefs that were later to lead him in his control of the German government.

    In the Thule Society: "... the sun played a prime role... as a sacred symbol of the Aryans, in contrast to... the moon, revered by the Semitic peoples. The Fuhrer saw in the Jewish people, with their black hair and swarthy complexions, the dark side of the human species, whilst the blond and blue-eyed Aryans constituted the light side of humanity. ... Hitler undertook to extirpate from the material world its impure elements."1

    In addition to sun (or light) worship, the Thule Society also practiced Satan worship: "The inner core within the Thule Society were all Satanists who practiced Black Magic."2

    The Society was not a working-man's group as it included amongst its members: "judges, police-chiefs, barristers, lawyers, university professors and lecturers, aristocratic families, leading industrialists, surgeons, physicians, scientists, as well as a host of rich and influential bourgeois.... "3

    The membership of the Thule Society also became the foundation of the Nazi Party: "... the Committee and the forty original members of the New German Workers' Party were all drawn from the most powerful occult society in Germany—the Thule Society."4

    One of the founders of both groups, the Nazi Party and the Thule Society, was Dietrich Eckart: "a dedicated Satanist, the supreme adept of the arts and rituals of Black Magic and the central figure in a powerful and wide-spread circle of occultists—the Thule Group. (He was] one of the seven founder members of the Nazi Party...."

    Eckart claimed to be the initiator of Hitler into the secrets of Satan worship. He is quoted as saying on his deathbed: "Follow Hitler. He will dance, but it is I who have called the tune! I have initiated him into the 'Secret Doctrine;' opened his centres in vision and given him the means to communicate with the Powers. Do not mourn for me: I shall have influenced history more than any German."



    But it was not just the Thule Society that gave Hitler the support he needed to become the leader of the German government. There were additional sources of Hitler's strength. One who offered an explanation of Hitler's easy rise to power was Walter Langer, a noted psychoanalyst. Langer wrote in his book The Mind of Adolf Hitler that it was his theory that Hitler was himself one-quarter Jewish and the grandson of a Rothschild. He wrote:

    There is a great deal of confusion in studying Hitler's family tree. Adolf's father, Alois Hitler, was the illegitimate son of Maria Anna Schicklgruber. It was generally supposed that the father of Alois Hitler was Johann Georg Hiedler.... Alois, however, was not legitimized, and he bore his mother's name until he was forty years of age when he changed it to Hitler.

    A peculiar series of events, prior to Hitler's birth, furnishes plenty of food for speculation.

    There are some people who seriously doubt that Johann Georg Hiedler was the father of Alois. Thyssen and Koehler, for example, claim that Chancellor Dolfuss (the Chancellor of Austria) had ordered the Austrian police to conduct a thorough investigation into the Hitler family. As a result of this investigation a secret document was prepared that proved Maria Anna Shicklgruber was living in Vienna at the time she conceived.

    At that time she was employed as a servant in the home of Baron Rothschild. As soon as the family discovered her pregnancy she was sent back to her home in Spital where Alois was bom.5

    In a postscript in Langer's book, Robert G.L. Waite adds this comment:

    "But even when Langer is mistaken and his guesses prove incorrect, he is often on the right track.

    Consider his hint that Hitler's grandfather might have been a Jew. There is no reason to believe the unlikely story told by Langer's informant that Hitler's grandmother Maria Anna Schickelgruber, a peasant woman in her forties from the Waldvietral of rural Austria, had had an intimate liason with a Baron Rothschild in Vienna.

    But Hitler had worried that he might be blackmailed over a Jewish grandfather and ordered his private lawyer, Hans Frank, to investigate his paternal lineage.

    Frank did so and told the Fuehrer that his grandmother had become pregnant while working as a domestic servant in a Jewish household in Graz.

    The facts of this matter are in dispute—and a very lengthy dispute it has been. The point of overriding psychological and historical importance is not whether it is true that Hitler had a Jewish grandfather, but whether he believed that it might be true.

    He did so believe and the fact shaped both his personality and his public policy.6

    It is possible that Hitler discovered his Jewish background and his relation to the Rothschilds, and aware of their enormous power to make or break European governments, re-established contact with the family. This would partially explain the enormous support he received from the international banking fraternity, closely entwined with the Rothschild family, as he rose to power.

    One thing is certain, however. Hitler started World War II by moving into Austria first. It has been theorized that he moved into this country for two reasons. First, he wanted to silence Dolfuss who Hitler believed knew that he was a descendant of the Rothschilds, and secondly, he wished to remove all traces of his ancestry from the Austrian records.
    Last edited by DianaS; 10th-April-2007 at 02:26 PM.

  6. #46
    Registered User Mezzosoprano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    in a world of my own... where people are nice and there's lots of honey!
    Posts
    1,014
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: is this ridiculous or what ? (pt 93)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post

    Only if you saying "who cares" means that YOU do

    Saying "who cares" means I've taken note of the fact/or opinion considered it and concluded that it's not a point I value.... but I have noted it....! I'm just not conviced that he did love her.

    I think everyone has a right to their own opinion on this as I said earlier... but I don't agree when you (I think, please DO correct me if I'm wrong..) said that my opinion regarding Nazi medical experiments was bias... bias towards humanity?... okay - if that's what you meant - count me in!


  7. #47
    Registered User Mezzosoprano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    in a world of my own... where people are nice and there's lots of honey!
    Posts
    1,014
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: is this ridiculous or what ? (pt 93)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mary View Post
    Actually it's not what I was saying. The point I was trying to make (not very successfully) was that people have certain expectations today of routine surgical operations, but I don't think the vast majority of those people are aware of the true cost - i.e the horrific experiments carried out at Birkenau.

    So can good come from evil in that many lives are routinely saved today around the world.........but at a terrible cost.

    I agree about his financial mind. He was a brilliant chancellor of the exchequer, and turned the country around from galloping inflation to a financially stable country (as I am given to understand by a researcher who specialised in the subject).

    M

    Cool... clarified... excellent!

  8. #48
    Registered User Mezzosoprano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    in a world of my own... where people are nice and there's lots of honey!
    Posts
    1,014
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: is this ridiculous or what ? (pt 93)

    Quote Originally Posted by killingtime View Post

    Yeah! What did the Romans ever give us?
    Erm.... well! I could list a few things..But they didn't get far in Scotland!!

    ps - can someone pm me and tell me how to do multiquotes in a post?! I know... technically and vertically challenged - Woe is me!

  9. #49
    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    10,015
    Rep Power
    14

    Re: is this ridiculous or what ? (pt 93)

    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. You must be kidding, pt 45 (an occasional series)
    By Barry Shnikov in forum Chit Chat
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 1st-November-2007, 12:14 PM
  2. Ridiculous litigation competition
    By David Bailey in forum Chit Chat
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 30th-March-2007, 02:00 PM
  3. You must be kidding, pt 44 (an occasional series)
    By Barry Shnikov in forum Chit Chat
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 23rd-March-2007, 04:53 PM
  4. You must be kidding, pt 42 (an occasional series)
    By Barry Shnikov in forum Chit Chat
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 23rd-August-2006, 01:46 PM
  5. You must be kidding, pt 41
    By Barry Shnikov in forum Chit Chat
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 11th-July-2006, 08:22 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •