Amazing thing happened to me last Sunday

[Lynn]

Sorry folks, but in the interest of fairness to Barry, here are quotes from Will's very first post on this thread.

Sorry, but that still says to me that Will wanted to share about his personal religious and spiritual experience - he recognised that not everyone is going to believe in the same things, but he wanted to share his experience. He didn't post in any of the existing threads but started a new one - but it then turned into another repeat of the 'religion vs atheism' debate.

It would be nice for a change to have a discussion about different religious beliefs without someone saying every other post 'anyone who believes in religion is mentally unstable'. For example I know I wouldn't agree with the things Jiveknight believes and he wouldn't agree with the things I believe, but I would be happy to discuss and debate it.

[andystyle]

Sorry, but that still says to me that Will wanted to share about his personal religious and spiritual experience - he recognised that not everyone is going to believe in the same things, but he wanted to share his experience. He didn't post in any of the existing threads but started a new one - but it then turned into another repeat of the 'religion vs atheism' debate.

It would be nice for a change to have a discussion about different religious beliefs without someone saying every other post 'anyone who believes in religion is mentally unstable'. For example I know I wouldn't agree with the things Jiveknight believes and he wouldn't agree with the things I believe, but I would be happy to discuss and debate it.

I'd be interested to know if other religions have experiences of faith healing and the like. From my own view, I know that I don't know very much about other religions - sometimes I don't know very much about my own!

[andystyle]

Great stuff! I hope the day goes well. As Lynne said, Easter is a very good day to be baptised, as it symbolises death and resurrection to new life.

It was a fantastic service. A lot of my friends and family (including the future in-laws) were there. A lot of it is a bit of a blur due to nerves!

I can remember my own baptism, way back in the late eighties. It was a really unique and special experience.

Something I'll remember for the rest of my life.

[jiveknight]

It would be nice for a change to have a discussion about different religious beliefs without someone saying every other post 'anyone who believes in religion is mentally unstable'. For example I know I wouldn't agree with the things Jiveknight believes and he wouldn't agree with the things I believe, but I would be happy to discuss and debate it.

I'm always very open to debate but don't want to be accused of trying to "proselytize" on the forum. I guess we can debate by pm unless there's a "discuss your beliefs in a tolerant manner with no pedantic jumping on missspelling thread"

x ian

[straycat]

with no pedantic jumping on missspelling"

Ooooh the temptation..... that was just plain mean of you...

[Mac]

Fair play to you will.

Let you faith warm you in the cold and light you in the dark. XXX XXX

An amazing thing happened to me last Monday

Forgive me for I have sinned. Believe it or not when I logged on this morning, there had been 49195 posts since my last log on.!!


I have felt the urge to re enter the world of the forum after an absence of two years!!


Here is what happened to me
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<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Having been unable to dance pain free for the previous two years, a major back operation has put me back on the dance track! (pardon the pun).

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<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>As Easter approached I was full of anticipation and excitement at the prospect of kicking in a new start for me in my personal life.
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<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>I had decided some weeks before to move on from a long standing friendship that had become stifling and damaging to both me and the close friend concerned.
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<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Whilst I have cause to be eternally grateful to that friend , it became apparent that that our friendship was damaging both of us and that friends was all we would ever be and I needed to move on.
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<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Easter was probably the first time I could let myself go and dance myself silly as I was fit, had been invited to stay with a new friend away from my own area and pressures and Becci my daughter was away for the Easter hols. (much as I love her)
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<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>So as you can see I had big expectations.

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<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Well what can I say! . My expectations were far exceeded. I had a fantastic four nights of dancing. I knew that there was some beautiful people in the world and I met a lot of them that week end.


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<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>I had the most amazing time with people who I had only just met but with whom I felt I had known all my life. I was seduced completely. Yes they are dancers and yes they are on the forum and you know who you all are.
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<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Having had my fill of dancing and chatting till five in the morning (most nights)
<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>I left with the feeling dawning on me that actually I had probably messed up something potentially very wonderful.


<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>I began to feel quite down.

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Whether it was the Easter hols blues kicking in, I don’t know, but I began to wonder what lied ahead for me and the kid now .
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<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>I consoled myself with my tunes. At least the road was clear and the sun was shining as I head south.
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<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Just as I came to the M 6 Toll the track “Save The Last Dance For Me” came across the speakers.
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<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>I didn’t realise how loud I had the music until I slowed down. I resisted the temptation to turn it down . After all its one of my fav tracks!!
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<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>As I came to the cash only Toll, I wound the window down and dispensed my coins in the bin.
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<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>As I did so a man appeared by the door. Having heard the tune he started dancing…
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<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>I smiled involuntarily, the gate went up , and there was my future world laying before me on the M6 Toll and Guess what? …..ITS DANCING!!
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<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Thanks to the beautiful people I met last week-end and

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Thanks fletch

[rubyred]

Thanks fletch

Yes save the best 'till last

Dancing has its own healing properties, good luck

[Jamie]

<font][size=><o:p></o:p><font]>Thanks fletch

She's an amazing woman with a huge heart.

Thankyou fletch, for being you.


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[Mac]

She's an amazing woman with a huge heart.

Thankyou fletch, for being you.


</FONT]></FONT][SIZE=>

[Twirlie Bird]

She's an amazing woman with a huge heart.

Thankyou fletch, for being you.


</FONT]></FONT][SIZE=>

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Welcome back to the forum Mac. Beautiful post btw

[Oid]

Will,

I'm going back to your original post. I read a bit of the thread, wasn't on the forum for a while, then looked it up again. I haven't read all of the posts in between. My apologies if what I'm about to quote has already been done.

Look to the bible/scriptures for understanding.

NIV 1Corinthians12 "Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant. You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. Therefore I tell you that no-one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no-one can say "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in in all men. Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers......."

Contrast NIV 2Thessalonians2 "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report of letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshipped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God. Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendour of his coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness."

Gifts are not for selfish advantange, but to build up the Christian community. It's up to you to test - is it by the Spirit?

I hope that will have helped. I've been a Christian for about two and a half years now. If you are ever questioning something, look to the scriptures.

Yours,

Lindsey

[StokeBloke]

Look to the scriptures for clarity and understanding; interesting concept. After reading your highlighted texts you are saying in summary, it may be a Satanic manifestation being used to delude you and draw you away from your Lord, or it may be a manifestation of the Holy Spirit being used to empower your faith and draw you closer to your Lord - but it's probably one or the other. Thanks for clearing that up

[Baruch]

I've been a Christian for about two and a half years now. If you are ever questioning something, look to the scriptures.

I've been a Christian for a fair bit longer, and although I used to believe that, I've found that very often when we question something the scriptures don't always shed much (or any) light on the situation. Rather like the lengthy quote you posted -- what exactly is the point you were trying to make?

[fletch]

I began to wonder what lied ahead for me and the kid now .
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<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Thanks to the beautiful people I met last week-end and

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Thanks fletch

You have a wonderful future ahead of you with Becci, she is one of lifes beautiful people

I hope showing you the route I am taking with my children will help with the road ahead for you two


Thank you for understanding and seeing through to what's inside

[andystyle]

{snip Lindsey's post}

What you have to bear in mind with letters in the NT is that they are written for a specific audience, and as a response to a letter that has been received by Paul (I think he wrote Thessalonians as well as Corinthians). Trying to understand the full context of the letter is rather like listening to one half of a lengthy phone conversation and attempting to discern the overall context. While the letters contain masses and masses of Christian doctrine, the letters weren't primarily written to expound Christian doctrine to a wide audience in the way that the Gospels were. Care has to be taken when applying the letters to our lives as Christians.

[Oid]

Hi folks,

There have been one or two posts and PMs on what I posted. Stokebloke replied, and he seemed to see what I meant, although he stated that it was probably one or the other, though I meant that it is one or the other, no probable about it. (I found that interesting, as I see you've got down that you're a Warlock on your profile, Stokebloke) I do take Andystyle's point, that one has to be careful in interpreting, and that replies were sent to questions asked with regard to what was happening. However, they are still part of God's word, living word, and as I understand it to be, the letters are a good example for us when considering the present day, as things are not always so different nowadays from back then.

I was interested to see what comments there would be specifically on quotes from the bible. Will was writing as a Christian, and as I had briefly scrolled down the replies, I didn't see any quotes directly from the bible from anyone, so I thought I'd post. Maybe I didn't look carefully enough but I'd thought that possibly I'd find at least one quite easily.

It's not so long ago that I didn't understand the bible whatsoever, and didn't even see much of a link between the OT and NT. I tried and tried, but could only see it academically, or that it had a few good stories/principles, but that was it, or so I thought. And I was frustrated because I saw that my Christian friends had something I didn't. When I actually realised what I had to do to become a Christian, ask Jesus into my life as my Lord, asking forgiveness and repenting of my sin, truly believing that he died and rose again for me, that's when the Holy Spirit made it possible for me to grasp anything other than thinking about the principles/stories - it was like being able to understand a foreign language. At the same time, I realised how much there now was for me to learn. I'm hoping to be accepted on to a bible preaching course, so that I can study the word full time, it is that important to me to learn about it and to explain what I mean to others. And if I haven't done well enough just now, give me time.

I don't agree that science will ever be able to explain what happened to me. I wasn't even going to church at the time, I was living a life of luxury overseas in sin with my boyfriend. And the change had such an impact on me that I left that life, as it began to feel incongruous to what I knew to be true. A few years ago I'd never have believed that I'd be typing that. Christianity was fine for others, but not for me, so I said. And I don't agree that it will explain all healing.

It was the bible itself which was life-changing, although the witness of and discussions with Christian friends in the UK did play a part too.

One of those witnesses to me, my best friend for many a year, has experienced healing, like Will, through the Spirit, in the name of the Lord. At one point years ago her boyfriend used to have to brush his teeth after eating chocolate before he kissed her, she was so allergic to chocolate. Now she can tuck in to chocolate cake (that was just one example she experienced - she had other health problems, etc).

To some, my life may not seem particularly successful at the moment, as I gave up certain things/a way of life which seem/s to be particularly important to the masses, a picture postcard life, in order to follow Christ. However, I've never been happier in all my life since I did that, though it hasn't been easy; I gained far more in other ways than I lost.

I love to dance, but I find it hard to see so many people treating dancing like a religion. Don't get me wrong, years ago, when I wasn't a Christian, it did help me to keep going, as I'd come out of a violent relationship, and it was a way of being in both male and female company without having to be too close, as I didn't particularly trust men. And I can go on about it keeping me fit, it's to fantastic music etc. But can dancing really be one's ultimate purpose in life? In my opinion, no it cannot. And the joy people can see in me when I dance does not come from the dancing itself, but the joy I have in my heart, along with my hope.

If there is something that you folks are passionate about, know about, and truly believe will help others, I think most of you will try to pass that on/help, will you not? There are pages and pages on dancing here, tips for others etc. If it's a life or death matter, then I'd hope that you would pass on what you could/do what you could. That's what Christians see Christianity as, a life or death matter. We're just not perfect in how we deal with things, as we're all sinners and are not Gods ourselves. We're trying to do what we can to tell you our good news, even though we know we'll probably be slated for it.

Lindsey

[andystyle]

I do take Andystyle's point, that one has to be careful in interpreting, and that replies were sent to questions asked with regard to what was happening. However, they are still part of God's word, living word, and as I understand it to be, the letters are a good example for us when considering the present day, as things are not always so different nowadays from back then.

Absolutely. I hope I didn't imply that they couldn't be applied - I wrote my reply in a bit of a hurry! The letters are indeed God's word and they are brimming with Christian theology. What I was trying to say is that we shouldn't treat that theology as absolute, as that's not how the letters were written, but in context to how the letter puts this theology. By and large, they are widely applicable - otherwise, why would they be in the Bible? However, we have to think how good the example is...for instance, should women still be silent in church? The difference in how women acted in church then and now is significant, hence the requirement to take care.

It's not so long ago that I didn't understand the bible whatsoever, and didn't even see much of a link between the OT and NT. I tried and tried, but could only see it academically, or that it had a few good stories/principles, but that was it, or so I thought. And I was frustrated because I saw that my Christian friends had something I didn't. When I actually realised what I had to do to become a Christian, ask Jesus into my life as my Lord, asking forgiveness and repenting of my sin, truly believing that he died and rose again for me, that's when the Holy Spirit made it possible for me to grasp anything other than thinking about the principles/stories - it was like being able to understand a foreign language. At the same time, I realised how much there now was for me to learn.

It's quite something, isn't it!! I was the same until I became a Christian, and even then I was still puzzled. It's only relatively recently that the Bible has truly started to 'come alive' for me.

I'm hoping to be accepted on to a bible preaching course, so that I can study the word full time, it is that important to me to learn about it and to explain what I mean to others. And if I haven't done well enough just now, give me time.

I'm studying through Spurgeons College at the moment through distance learning and it really does help you appreciate the Bible in a totally different way. I understand how you feel about it being important to spread the Good News. Good luck to you.

I love to dance, but I find it hard to see so many people treating dancing like a religion. Don't get me wrong, years ago, when I wasn't a Christian, it did help me to keep going, as I'd come out of a violent relationship, and it was a way of being in both male and female company without having to be too close, as I didn't particularly trust men. And I can go on about it keeping me fit, it's to fantastic music etc. But can dancing really be one's ultimate purpose in life? In my opinion, no it cannot. And the joy people can see in me when I dance does not come from the dancing itself, but the joy I have in my heart, along with my hope.

It could be added as part of the Alpha Course advert, no? First move, man-spin, catapult, drop, spin and then stare into the camera. "Is there more to life than this?"

If there is something that you folks are passionate about, know about, and truly believe will help others, I think most of you will try to pass that on/help, will you not? There are pages and pages on dancing here, tips for others etc. If it's a life or death matter, then I'd hope that you would pass on what you could/do what you could. That's what Christians see Christianity as, a life or death matter. We're just not perfect in how we deal with things, as we're all sinners and are not Gods ourselves. We're trying to do what we can to tell you our good news, even though we know we'll probably be slated for it.

What a fantastic way of putting it. As for being slated, Christ didn't promise it would be easy. Experience shows that it isn't. In fact, in many ways it would be easier for me if I wasn't a Christian. However, I happen to believe in God, and I happen to have committed my life to his Son. I can no more stop being a Christian than I can stop breathing and expect to live to a ripe old age.

[Barry Shnikov]

Why the Bible is not gonna help you live a good life.


Isaiah 14.21 vs. Deuteronomy 24.6 – are you responsible for your father’s sins, or not?

Acts 9.7 vs. Acts 22.9 – gives mutually exclusive versions of the same event.

There are hopelessly differing versions of the resurrection to be found in each of the four gospels – who was there, who wasn’t, what they saw…whether he was going to rise again 'on the third day' or 'after three days and nights', and so on...

Proverbs 4.7 vs. 1 Corinthians 1.19 – how will you decide whether you should seek wisdom or not?

John 14.28 – contradicts the doctrine of the Trinity - surely that can't be wrong?

You are instructed to massacre non-believers (or possibly apostates) and make a burnt offering of their corpses – Deuteronomy 13.12 – 16

When you go out to war against your enemies, you are permitted to seize and ‘enjoy’ the women of any town that you ‘conquer’, as well as looting it of children, livestock and ‘other plunder’ (Deuteronomy 20) but if you are guilty of rape against one of your fellow believers, you must pay off her father and then she is forced to become your wife with no possibility of divorce (Deuteronomy 22.28-9)

You must kill practising homosexuals (Leviticus 20.13) as well as fortune-tellers (Leviticus 20.27), adulterers (Leviticus 20.10 and again Deuteronomy 22.20-21), apostates (Deuteronomy 13 and again in book 17), blasphemers – including me, presumably (Leviticus 24.10 – 16), and finally (in this list, anyway) anyone who works on the sabbath (Exodus 31.12-15).

Insulting a prophet also, apparently, justifies a brutal death – 2 Kings 2.23-24 – though of course your god is quite happy for all sorts of people to suffer brutal deaths – Isaiah 13.16.

Your god permits slavery – see Leviticus 25, Exodus 21, and in the New Testament, Ephesians 6.5, 1 Timothy 6

Your god punishes those out of favour with natural disasters – Nahum, book 1

You are told that prayers will be answered – note, not that they might be answered, but that they will be – Matthew 7.7-8, 18,19-20, 21.21-22; Luke 11.9-13; John 14.13, 16.23-24 – and yet thousands of believers are praying every hour of every day for things which never happen.

Your god practises perverse tricks on ordinary people; in Exodus he tells Moses that he will visit plagues on Egypt, one after the other, unless Pharaoh frees the Hebrews. So far so good. But then he also tells Moses that he is going to ‘harden Pharaoh’s heart’ so that he will not let the Hebrews go. In other words, he punishes all the Egyptians – killing their firstborn, amongst other things – because Pharaoh will not do what your god is preventing him from doing.

(Oh, and by the way the answer ‘This all happened in the Old Testament, I believe… yada yada’ won’t wash. First, much of the stuff from the above criticism is from the NT – slavery of christians by christians, for example; second, see Matthew 5.17; finally, point to the bits of the New Testament where anybody explains how the brutal god of the OT can be reconciled with this new christian approach of turn the other cheek. Everyone's been trying to do it ever since, but apparently Jesus, the gospel writers and the letter writers didn't notice any glaring disparity)

Nowhere do we see in the NT any explanation of how the lord came to do all those nasty, vicious things in the OT; how he came to make all sorts of mistakes when ‘divinely inspring’ those people who wrote the testaments (such as how many legs insects have, and what shape the earth is – I mean, these are trivial mistakes which he could just as easily have got right as wrong); and how – unless Old Testament principles still applied – it became necessary for him to have himself crucified in order to appease himself so that he would not need to avenge himself on a universe full of souls that he had created with free will (only to say ‘do as I say or it’ll be eternal damnation for you, matey boy’). Was god obeying some ancient rule that sacrifice is a necessary step to take, and if so, who made that rule? If it was his own rule, why did he make it? How did he come up with the idea that, first time round, it was necessary to flood the world to rid it of all but 8 of the nasty sinning freethinkers that he had created, but next time round, he should just bud off a part of himself and kill it? In what sense was that part of himself dead when it was part of himself all along?)

Clearly, no rational person would view this as a reasonable way to conduct your life. So you have to decide from which bits of the Bible you are going to seek guidance and help. So here is the question on everyone’s lips – how to decide which bits?

Isn’t it fair to say that you have an internal guidance system, something which tells you what is right and what is wrong, and that you will strain the Bible through that sensibility filter in order to decide how you are going to live your life? That when you look to other people for guidance and assistance on how you are to square the circle of having a ‘holy’ book which has unholy quantities of murder, rapine and plain old fashioned viciousness in it (not to mention industrial quantities of nonsense), you are going to hold up what they tell you to that same internal guidance system? That you are going to 'dispense' with the bits that don't make sense to you (or just not think about them) and feel good about going along with the bits that do make sense?

And if that is the case, why not do what I do – skip the Bible babble and just listen to the internal guidance system?

And if it’s not the case that you have an internal guidance system which tells you right from wrong, you are in deep trouble. Cos everyone I know has one. The main exception would be sociopaths.

[straycat]

-> Plonk ->

[WittyBird]

-------------->Tumbleweed<---------------------------------------------


Yawn - Yada - Yada -zzzzZZZZZZZZZZ-Plonk


What we gonna do today, Take over the world?


*coma inducing sleep*

Oh, It's Dull.