View Poll Results: Are you happy with the moderation levels.

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  • Happy as it is.

    15 34.09%
  • It's over-moderated.

    21 47.73%
  • It's under-moderated

    7 15.91%
  • Don't particularly care.

    6 13.64%
  • I want to be a moderator too!

    1 2.27%
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Thread: Moderation levels.

  1. #61
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    Re: Moderation levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I think the result of this change in moderation is that a number of talented dancers have ceased to post on here.
    It's a pity that some of those talented dancers have left the forum indeed, however it's a rather weak argument as there have also been some even more talented dancers who have left this place (or don't post much) because of the absence (or limited level) of moderation...

  2. #62
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    Re: Moderation levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I used to post on this forum regularly. Many times a day. Nowadays I post rarely. That change is entirely due to a change in moderation. As they say, Franck can do what he likes, it's his forum. If you don't like it, don't post.

    I think the result of this change in moderation is that a number of talented dancers have ceased to post on here. One day I will be talented enough to be missed. Until then I'll pop in and post from time to time
    I just received an " infraction" for misquoting and using a "swearword"......I won't sleep tonight........Andy i think I'll probably join you.......

  3. #63
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Moderation levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I think the result of this change in moderation is that a number of talented dancers have ceased to post on here.
    IMO its because they actually wanted to discuss dance subjects without threads turning into lovefests/playground rows/completely off topic waffle.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    It's a pity that some of those talented dancers have left the forum indeed, however it's a rather weak argument as there have also been some even more talented dancers who have left this place (or don't post much) because of the absence (or limited level) of moderation...
    This is completely wrong. I'm not sure if it's deliberate, but Caro has quoted me and is saying that I've said the opposite of what I've actully said. I think that people have left due to over-moderation. The moderators went through a period of defending people who were posting total rubbish. But we got infractions for disagreeing with said rubbish. Most of us thought this resulted in a dumbing down of the Forum - Caro's post has proved this to be true

    I know of nobody who has left the Forum due to the lack of sufficient moderation. I know of many people who no longer post because of the heavy-handed moderation. Complain? Moi? I can't complain about infractions. It results in another infraction

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    IMO its because they actually wanted to discuss dance subjects without threads turning into lovefests/playground rows/completely off topic waffle.
    I don't think this is true. I think the change has been very much political. Franck has been disagreeing with non-Ceroc people. This partisan approach is new and is unpleasant - but very clear to me. And it has been clear to many others too. Hence their absence...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dance Demon View Post
    I just received an " infraction" for misquoting and using a "swearword"......I won't sleep tonight........Andy i think I'll probably join you.......
    Do you think it's because you aren't a Ceroc person? My guess is that Ceroc don't want us on here. And that Franck is doing Ceroc's dirty work and making it difficult for us to stay

    Isn't it time some non-Ceroc person started another Forum that is less partisan?

  5. #65
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    Re: Moderation levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    There used to be a list of the moderators - can't find it now, I have worked out the moderators to be as follows as the have the word 'moderator' under their avatar

    • Kev F
    • Lory
    • DavidJames
    • ducasi
    • tiggerbabe
    • Franck (of course)


    Is that it - or are there any hidden ones I/we don't know about ?
    has someone premoted Emma to non-moderator? surely not ?

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    Re: Moderation levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Do you think it's because you aren't a Ceroc person? My guess is that Ceroc don't want us on here. And that Franck is doing Ceroc's dirty work and making it difficult for us to stay

    Isn't it time some non-Ceroc person started another Forum that is less partisan?
    Funny you should say that Andy......

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    Re: Moderation levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    My guess is that Ceroc don't want us on here. And that Franck is doing Ceroc's dirty work and making it difficult for us to stay


    It was bad enough when Ceroc Central became involved in international politics, and had Kennedy assassinated. Then came their coverup at Roswell, followed by Franck's role in fixing the Bush election, and worse still, Mr Ellard's scandalous involvement in the deforestation of Bognor Regis, and the knockon effects on the Gulf conflict. But this... this... I have no words.

  8. #68
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    Re: Moderation levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dance Demon View Post
    Funny you should say that Andy......
    Do we get the keys to the sweetshop too?

    Of course, any new forum will still need to be moderated. But I hope it will be independent of any jive organisation.

    I think the changes to this forum have reflected a change in focus in Ceroc. There has been a change in how Ceroc interacts with those outside Ceroc. Ceroc are now very wary of those who are non-Ceroc. It seems to me that Ceroc have drawn a line in the sand and asked people to step across.

    This Forum used to welcome all comers, irrespective of their organisational affiliations. However, this is no longer the case. Until recently I was posting in the way I always have done: I posted in a way I hoped was entertaining, I posted in a way that was controversial and might stimulate debate, I debated in a robust style and often responded in a way that could be considered "right back at ya!" and sometimes, just sometimes, I was very, very funny. I debated in a way that the management of the forum seemed to enjoy and partake in. However, it's like those people have been reprogrammed in some way and have taken on some others who have had the same programming - it's a bit like the staff of McDonalds, you can not stray from the script or the "McDonalds Way". Many have not had this recalibration and seem unsuitable to remain in the new, recalibrated, Scottish Ceroc Forum. Many have departed and been replaced with more suitable posters who will post in line with the new regime. Speaking personally, I'm finding myself becoming invisible on the Forum. Most of those old sparring partners have departed and I get little response to my posts from the new people who have had their chip fitted.

    Along with the new regime came the cattle-prod of infractions. This seems to be used as a way to somehow retrain us into posting in the new way. If you did something that was OK before but was no longer accepted you would get an infraction. And, if you complained that you thought the infraction was unfair, guess what? You got an infraction!

    On one hand I think that Franck has been brave to let people like me continue to post - on the other hand, I think I'd have preferred to have been told that I was no longer welcome here I suppose we were being given a chance to change. I'm reminded of an arrogant HR person who once told me "if you can't change the people, you change the people".

    Times change, places change, people change, and some don't change, at least not quickly enough. There will always be change. Sometimes it takes us a while to work out what the changes have been. And a bit longer to work out if we like them or not. I've been hanging on, popping in, posting a bit and hoping that this forum will change back to it's free and easy former self. My current opinion is that the new regime is here-to-stay and that anything which is not in line with the "Ceroc Way" will be moderated.


    .. large fries with that?

  9. #69
    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
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    Re: Moderation levels.

    Is there an anti-independent, pro-Ceroc bias in the moderation team? Try asking Rocky or Silver Fox...

    Andy - get real. Everyone is welcome on this forum while they follow the forum rules. You'll not see a rule that you need to be "Ceroc" to post here.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. Steve Martin, LA Story

  10. #70
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    Re: Moderation levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    Andy - get real.
    One of us needs to...

  11. #71
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    Re: Moderation levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    This is completely wrong. I'm not sure if it's deliberate, but Caro has quoted me and is saying that I've said the opposite of what I've actully said.
    No.

    You are saying that over-moderation has lead to some talented dancers leaving the forum.

    I am saying I know of some even more talented dancers who have left this forum, or do not post much, because of under-moderation on this forum. To make it clearer, when I said your argument was weak, I was practicing (sadly with very little success ) your British Art of Understatement. I thought by using the counter example I made it obvious that your argument was irrelevant, if not plain wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    The moderators went through a period of defending people who were posting total rubbish. But we got infractions for disagreeing with said rubbish.
    Unless I am very much mistaken (but that doesn't happen too often ), you got infracted for the way you disagreed Andy, not the fact that you disagreed. Once again, get over it
    If you were able to disagree with somebody in a courteous manner, you would not get infracted (you might want to try and not use "rubbish" too much in those cases ).
    (don't get me wrong here as I actually have sympathy for your disagreement in question, as it's just very difficult to remain calm and courteous when disagreeing with some hopeless people - and sometimes it might even be worth the infraction ).

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I know of nobody who has left the Forum due to the lack of sufficient moderation.
    - I'll be happy to PM you with names.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Do you think it's because you aren't a Ceroc person? My guess is that Ceroc don't want us on here.
    My guess is that it is because he was plain insulting, and that had little to do with his affiliation or not to Ceroc. But what do I know

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Isn't it time some non-Ceroc person started another Forum that is less partisan?
    That already exists Andy, it's called the mjda forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post

    This Forum used to welcome all comers, irrespective of their organisational affiliations. However, this is no longer the case. (snip I was... I ... I... I... I..., I... I... I... I... I... ).

    Along with the new regime came the cattle-prod of infractions. This seems to be used as a way to somehow retrain us into posting in the new way. If you did something that was OK before but was no longer accepted you would get an infraction.
    As Ducasi said, you are mistaken Andy. The new forum rules prevent advertisement, including from Ceroc people, and even Ceroc Scotland people if I am right (ask Lorna ).

    They also reprehend insulting posts, hence the infractions. (I'm sure DJ or somebody will point you to the relevant section of the said rules if you ask nicely ).

    May be you should stop taking this too personally Andy, and realise 1. that rules apply to everybody and 2. that people are allowed to disagree with whatever you post on here. If you can't take it, don't post.

    Equally while some people will find your style amusing, others won't.

    And the moderators / admin are quite open when it comes to talking about events from others organisations (as long as you try to be helpful and not advertise - look at the SP threads and myself I have started several threads about WCS events - and never got infracted or warned for it ).


    I'll have a diet coke please, no ice.

  12. #72
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    Re: Moderation levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    That already exists Andy, it's called the mjda forum.
    And given a critcal mass, that could be the place to be for unbiased chat, but that mass hasn't been reached yet.

    For me the most important part of this forum has been discussion of events, what's on, who's going, what happened.

    Such discussion seems to have got more difficult over the years, and this applies equally to events that I have no connection with, as to those that I'm involved with organising or DJing, be they Ceroc or non Ceroc. I can't say it feels like there is a heavy Ceroc bias here, (after all, DJ is just as negative about Ceroc as he is about anything else.) It's more a case of the (legitimate) proctectiveness that Ceroc has towards it's business, weighs heavy here. I'm unlikely to highly praise or criticise any event here, in case it is viewed as a simple case of me being biased for commercial reasons.

    So I may not have chalked up many infractions, but in being cautious I contribute far less here.

    Most of us won't know the reasons why infractions are handed out, or why people are banned, after all the evidence soon gets removed, but the "fight scenes" used to be the most entertaining.

    If moderation was just about splitting threads to keep them on topic, that would suit me fine, that does seem to be the case at the moment on the other forum.

    Greg

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    Re: Moderation levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    I'll have a diet coke please, no ice.
    Supersize?

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    Re: Moderation levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    No.
    My guess is that it is because he was plain insulting, and that had little to do with his affiliation or not to Ceroc. But what do I know
    Maybe not as much as you think.....?

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    Re: Moderation levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dance Demon View Post
    Maybe not as much as you think.....?
    Oooh. Common sense vs paranoia. This ought to be good. Let the fight commence

  16. #76
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    Re: Moderation levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepman View Post
    For me the most important part of this forum has been discussion of events, what's on, who's going, what happened.
    Hi Greg

    Like you, the section of the forum which interests me most personally, is the 'Social events' section! I think that the reviews and feedback given on here, are extremely useful (good or bad) for the punters and organisers alike.

    I'm unlikely to highly praise or criticise any event here, in case it is viewed as a simple case of me being biased for commercial reasons.
    That's a real shame you feel that way.

    Because 'I' value everyone's opinion, from what ever perspective they may have and I believe its up to the individual readers to decide if your being biased for any particular reason.

    And on a personal note, I like reading your reviews, as I know we share quite a few of the same likes and dislikes, so if you enjoyed an event, then i'd probably enjoy it too!

    Most of us won't know the reasons why infractions are handed out, or why people are banned, after all the evidence soon gets removed, but the "fight scenes" used to be the most entertaining.
    On this point.. I can't think of a single time a 'fight scene' has been removed, without a direct request from someone actually involved.

    Yes, if it gets heated, we might decide to move it 'outside' but that's done purely to let them get on with it in a slightly more appropriate area (only 'members' can view this section and because its outside, members can't unwittingly stumble across an argument, which they may not wish to read).

    In heated arguments, people often regret what they've said later on, and after a period of reflection, they might ask for the thread to be removed.


    Anyone who's name is mentioned, or who's directly involved in a thread, will have the power to have their posts, or posts about them removed if they so wish, they only have to ask. And this is what happens mostly, although from the 'outside' it may 'seem' as though the moderators have interfered.

    We will not disclose this information publically, as its our policy to keep this information confidencial.

    So to everyone......please bare this in mind, before jumping to conclusions!
    MODERATOR AT YOUR SERVICE
    "If you're going to do something tonight, that you know you'll be sorry for in the morning, plan a lie in." Lorraine

  17. #77
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    Re: Moderation levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat264 View Post
    Oooh. Common sense vs paranoia. This ought to be good. Let the fight commence
    I don't think Caro is totally paraniod ...

  18. #78
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    Re: Moderation levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I don't think Caro is totally paraniod ...
    Which must be why she chose the 'common sense' team

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    Re: Moderation levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat264 View Post
    Oooh. Common sense vs paranoia. This ought to be good. Let the fight commence
    See....see...I told you.....they're all out to get me.......

  20. #80
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    Re: Moderation levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat264 View Post
    Which must be why she chose the 'common sense' team
    Using logical argument to try and persuade Andy McGregor of anything doesn't strike me as a particularly good showing of 'common sense'.

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