So, when does a beginner cease to be seen as a beginner?
This is something touched upon by Cruella in another thread. I feel sure it's been covered in terms of when do you move from beginner to intermediate classes or whatever. But, when is a dancer seen by their peers as no longer being a beginner? Is it time served on the floor? Attitude? Catalogue of moves?The number of venues or competitions attended? A combination? When does this transition take place in your mind? I know dancing is one of those things that you will never stop learning new things in (if you wish to). But when is a beginner no longer seen as a beginner?
As a mere beginner of five months I'm quite curious to know
It is all relative .........
The beginner will feel he/she is not a beginner if he/she can get through a whole track without going wrong especially when dancing with a more advanced dancer - however the advance dancer (being more experienced) is making the beginner feel this way.
I would say, stop putting labels on your dancing - just enjoying the dance and the more you dance the better you will be
Extra Note:
If you actually need to know your dancing status - for classes/competition/workshops etc., try attending the intermediate class, and if you find it too difficult - well there you go !
Last edited by Minnie M; 26th-March-2007 at 07:20 PM.
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Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
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For me, I stop seing a leader as a beginner once they can lead beginners moves smoothly, and with some variety. Wether that's after one lesson, or ten years.
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Not sure why we feel the need to label people but IMHO your "status" probably depends on where you are dancing at the time. I have only been dancing a year but would say that at my local venue I don't consider myself a beginner. Compare that to a weekender or a venue in London and I feel like I could have only been dancing a couple of weeks.
The whole point of this thread is to try and ascertain when YOU view a new dancer no longer as a beginner. When does a dancer become accepted by their peers no longer as a beginner. I know all the usual politically correct pap about beauty on the inside, it's the taking part that counts, and you know within yourself when you're ready for intermediate classes
What I am talking about is real peer judgement - something that we all know happens. Even if we try to kid ourselves otherwise. Peer judgement as in "this is so-and-so, s/he's pretty good considering s/he's a beginner".
What tips the scales inside the dance community to delete that caveat? What is YOUR yard stick for measuring somebody as a dancer, and when do they leave the beginner phase of their dancing career. Please save the hippy-tree-hugging-lovey-dovey answers for another thread. Let's have it brutal, raw and honest
When is a beginner no longer a beginner in your eyes?
Err I think I answered that.
With this...
The point I was trying to make is people can perceive your nervousness,inexperience etc.
having said that, when did Trampy stop being a beginner? - I don't think he thinks he has, but although that is said in jest - there is always a true word said in jest.
The point being, we are all beginners and there is always so much to learn.
I danced with a lady tonight who should definitely be classed as a "Ceroc beginner" - it was one of the best dances I had all night. Go figure.
The obvious answer as a lead as to whether I classify a lady as a "Ceroc beginner" is how well she can follow and how apparent it is she's never seen certain moves before. Which brings about the interesting situation of someone who's a "natural" or very experienced in another dance form, but hasn't done Ceroc much / at all. They're technically a beginner at Ceroc. Beyond that.....
There does seem to be different expectations from women if they've seen the guy dancing with someone else, particularly the "oh I'm not good enough to do that" response when the guy's just been made to look terrific by a skilled lady.
Honestly, I don't really think about it that much.
Admittedly I used to, up until a few years back anyway - hmmm, maybe that's when I stopped being a beginner
My yardstick is "how well do they follow my lead" - I'm militantly indifferent to how long they've been dancing or how much experience they have.
The question you're actually asking is not "what is a beginner", but "what is an intermediate dancer", and there's no real answer to that; God knows we've debated it enough times.
The only thing I can add to that is that I strongly believe this "6 lessons" stuff is rubbish, I think most people usually need a solid year of dancing (with at least 50 lessons) before they can even think of becoming a non-beginner. Learning partner dancing is difficult.
In fact, if you have to have a classification, I'd have several more grades, to get the message across th- so something like:
- Novice
- Beginner
- Improver
- Intermediate
- Experienced
- Advanced
- - Expert
you stop being a beginner when you have the confidence to ask and not apologise all the way through the dance.
People are still missing this point – it's not when do you yourself stop being a beginner – it's when do other people stop being beginners to you.
I'd say beginners stop being beginners to me when they become either good, or bad, intermediates.
OK, let me explain that...
Once through the beginner phase, followers have either learnt to follow quite well, or they've learnt the moves quite well. The ones that have learnt to follow I can usually dance well with. Those who have only learnt the moves I find it difficult to dance with as I don't tend to do the moves as they've learnt them. Fortunately most followers learn to follow quite well eventually. (Unfortunately some don't. )
Let me clarify this... The "learnt to follow"ers have also learnt moves, and the "learnt the move"ers have learnt some following skill. It's about where their skills are most concentrated. Although I've classed no-longer-beginners into two categories, there's really a range of abilities between these two extremes. And as I said, once our new intermediates get some more experience, they are likely to balance out the skills they need to make them good dancers.
(Hope this makes sense to someone – not sure how much sense it makes to me. )
Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story
Still waiting for the punchline ...
Put another way - how good to I have to be at leading a move for it to work on them? If I'm dancing with someone who hasn' learnt to follow and doesn't know any moves then I need to lead the move perfectly. I think it was Dizzy (?) who brought a friend to Slinkys one time who'd done no Ceroc at all - and then took her to the Blues Room Really good way to find out what you can actually lad and what moves women are "helping" you with.
So I'd say a beginner is someone I can expect little to no help from - I'm pretty much totally responsible for making the moves work. An intermediate will make my life easier and let me lead moves I haven't quite nailed without it noticing. The next level is when they can smoothly deal with things going wrong and they are adding to the dance either through styling, playing, floorcraft etc.
I really don't expect a beginner to be doing floorcraft.
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