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Thread: BSc - in Homeopathy?

  1. #21
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    Re: BSc - in Homeopathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    astut
    astute, adj. : Having or showing shrewdness and discernment, especially with respect to one's own concerns.

    learnt a new word today (well make it 2 in fact)

    Eternal Gratefulness to Mr Shnikov

  2. #22
    Registered User Freya's Avatar
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    Re: BSc - in Homeopathy?

    Ok to take this a bit more sensibly.

    It is only in recent years that you need a degree/diploma to practice Nursing, Physiotherapy, ocupational therapy, pharmacy, radiography and lots of other professions allied to medicine.

    Prior to that it was on the job traing and just over 100 years ago there weren't these professions. Nurses did any rehabilitation that is now the job of physio's and OT's. Pharmasists and apocathries had no formal traing what-so-ever.

    Can we live without these professions now???? There has been a call for more evidence based practice and the NHS is crying out for universities to increase their intake into these courses.

    Homeopathic treatments have scientific worth just there is not the evidence. This is the same with Phjysiotherapy Treatments yet how many of us have visited a Physio. Hydrotherapy, Acupuncture, electrotherapies, massage are all considered Alternative treatments yet they have an important place in Physiotherapy! There is also Little evidence that they are of any physical benefit in many conditions that they are used to treat!

    The uptake on people seeking out these treatments as an alternative to Traditional medicine is huge, especially with the waiting lists and Purchaser/provider split that is currently in play in England and Wales (scotland got rid of that ages ago! ).

    Is it not the next logical step afte HND/HNC's that you are able to obtain a degree in your chosen field. This is the way in which the country is moving.

    As for it being a science degree...It's basis is in Chemistry and all professions allied to medicine are science degrees. Why should this one be any different??

  3. #23
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: BSc - in Homeopathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    Homeopathic treatments have scientific worth just there is not the evidence.
    That's exactly like saying "astrology has scientific worth just there is not the evidence".

    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    As for it being a science degree...It's basis is in Chemistry and all professions allied to medicine are science degrees. Why should this one be any different??
    Coz it's complete and utter rubbish, basically.

    I'll quote an extract from Wikipedia here:

    Homeopathy attempts to treat the sick with extremely diluted agents that, in undiluted doses, produce similar symptoms in the healthy. However, processes used cause the dose to be exactly zero in most cases, meaning there is not a single active molecule present in the solution.
    So, bear in mind that there is zero agent in the relevant "treatment", there's just a "memory of an agent"...

    It carries on by saying:
    Its adherents and practitioners assert that the therapeutic potency of a remedy can be increased by serial dilution of the drug, combined with succussion, or vigorous shaking.
    Well, shaking it around a bit sounds pretty darned scientific to me.

    And it continues:
    Homeopathy views a sick person as having a dynamic disturbance in a hypothetical "vital force", a disturbance which, homeopaths claim, underlies standard medical diagnoses of named diseases.
    The phrase "wibble" comes to mind at this point...

  4. #24
    Registered User Freya's Avatar
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    Re: BSc - in Homeopathy?

    Ok what about Acupuncture!

    Sticking tiny needles, flicking them...Yes Flicking...every so often to alter the Chi?????? This aids healing and decreases pain!

    No scientific basis really as of yet! Just patient report!

  5. #25
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    Re: BSc - in Homeopathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    It is only in recent years that you need a degree/diploma to practice Nursing, Physiotherapy, ocupational therapy, pharmacy, radiography and lots of other professions allied to medicine.
    You can't really compare all that with Homeopathie, though, can you? All those other disciplines you mention do have scientific background...

    As DJ said, in most cases there isn't any single molecule of active substance in the homeopathic remedies... It relies purely on the placebo effect (and don't get me wrong, I am not saying this is a bad thing, the placebo effect is a very powerful thing and if we can treat some conditions that way instead of using drugs that do have adverse effects, then it would be silly not to do it), so you can study that for as long as you want, but call that a psychology degree not a science one.

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    Re: BSc - in Homeopathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    Ok what about Acupuncture!

    Sticking tiny needles, flicking them...Yes Flicking...every so often to alter the Chi?????? This aids healing and decreases pain!

    No scientific basis really as of yet! Just patient report!
    And what says that the relief and healing the patient feels comes from the needles and not the fact that he has somebody of authority (the white coat thing) obviously taking care of him for a dedicated period of time?

    And again, I am not saying this is Evil...

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    Registered User Freya's Avatar
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    Re: BSc - in Homeopathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    call that a psychology degree not a science one.
    I think that most Psychology degrees are Science Degrees tho Caro!!!!

  8. #28
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    Re: BSc - in Homeopathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    I think that most Psychology degrees are Science Degrees tho Caro!!!!
    Sorry I meant science in the 'hard sciences' way rather than 'soft' ones.
    And still Homeopathy wouldn't qualify, what would is 'the use of the placebo effect in various complementary therapies'.

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    Re: BSc - in Homeopathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    And what says that the relief and healing the patient feels comes from the needles and not the fact that he has somebody of authority (the white coat thing) obviously taking care of him for a dedicated period of time?
    For one thing ... it's not just a case of relief and healing. Effects felt from accupuncture can be quite strange, and quite specific.

    One nice example - my own accupunturist decided on my first visit to him that my body temperature was too hot, and decided to turn it down a bit. He did this so effectively (in one session) that it got him right away into my partner's bad books - my effectiveness as a hot water bottle has been massively reduced, it would seem...

    Wacky fun

  10. #30
    Registered User Freya's Avatar
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    Re: BSc - in Homeopathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    You can't really compare all that with Homeopathie, though, can you? All those other disciplines you mention do have scientific background...
    Do they? to the general public Physio is exercise prescription, Most prople haven't heard of OT, Radiographers push a button on a machine and pharmasists count pills!

    As far as I can see not a shred of science between them in so far as what actually is produced!! The reason they are science degrees is because they take general science such as biology, chemistry, and physics and apply it to make people feel better! Is this not what Homeopathy does? Takes Chemistry and mucks about with it! I'm not saying it works, what I'm saying is I don't know! but it does have it a scientific background!

  11. #31
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: BSc - in Homeopathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    Ok what about Acupuncture!
    What about it?

    Stop changing the goalposts, I'm talking about homeopathy, not "every othert complementary medicine"...

    Let me repeat - Homeopathy is rubbish. It's less scientific than astrology, even.

  12. #32
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    Re: BSc - in Homeopathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat264 View Post
    For one thing ... it's not just a case of relief and healing. Effects felt from accupuncture can be quite strange, and quite specific.

    One nice example - my own accupunturist decided on my first visit to him that my body temperature was too hot, and decided to turn it down a bit. He did this so effectively (in one session) that it got him right away into my partner's bad books - my effectiveness as a hot water bottle has been massively reduced, it would seem...

    Wacky fun
    Very true but no real scientific evidence of why it does what it does!!!!! Only patient response!!!!!

  13. #33
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    Re: BSc - in Homeopathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    What about it?

    Stop changing the goalposts, I'm talking about homeopathy, not "every othert complementary medicine"...

    Let me repeat - Homeopathy is rubbish. It's less scientific than astrology, even.
    Ok I was using it as an example of a practice once thought to be complete and utter rubbish!!!!!! Just like you comparing AT to MJ on a different thread!!!







    Ooooh I'm getting myself in hot water now! But must go to work and Look after little old ladies!

  14. #34
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    Re: BSc - in Homeopathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat264 View Post
    Effects felt from accupuncture can be quite strange, and quite specific.

    One nice example - my own accupunturist decided on my first visit to him that my body temperature was too hot, and decided to turn it down a bit. He did this so effectively...
    *imagines Stray with a rotative button in the back to regulate temperature*


    Again sorry if I seem thick, but what proves that that change in body temperature:
    - was genuine (did you measure it or just 'feel it')
    - was caused by the needles ? (and not the fact that you thought there was a chance that needles could have that power?)

    It's a shame I don't remember the following example more specifically but I remember a teacher of mine (was in medecine uni at the time) talking about some tribe which could exclude a member and making them believe that if they walked outside of the village, they'll die, and it happened... the man just 'dropped dead' because he was entirely convinced this is what was gonna happen... our brain is a very powerful thing...

    (and yes I know I'm going to get into trouble for using an example so poorly with so little ref, but it sure struck me at the time).

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    Re: BSc - in Homeopathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    (talking about physio, radiography etc having a scientific background) Do they? to the general public Physio is exercise prescription, Most prople haven't heard of OT, Radiographers push a button on a machine and pharmasists count pills!
    Come on Freya, you're not the general public, you don't need me to tell you about anatomy, ionizing radiations, and pharmacology?

  16. #36
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: BSc - in Homeopathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    Ok I was using it as an example of a practice once thought to be complete and utter rubbish!!!!!!
    Six exclamation marks - you're deffo on Tessalicious's hit list now...

    Just because Practice A was previously thought to be rubbish but is not, has no relation to whether Practice B is rubbish.

    Plenty of beliefs have been thought rubbish in the past, and are even more rubbish today - for example, racism.

    Homeopathy is, to my mind, a religion or - at a stretch - a philosophy. It's absolutely not a science, because it's not subject to the scientific method. That's pretty much the definition of science.

    So yes, I find that a degree - especially a Bachelor of Science degree - is inappropriate and even offensive. If it has to be "studied", then call it a B.A. - any fool can pick up one of those

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    Re: BSc - in Homeopathy?

    I'd like to point out that there is a rule that there can be no forum discussions on homeopathy unless I am taking part.

    ...oh yes there is!!

    One point about homeopathy is that it is based on magic. It's invention pre-dates the germ theory of disease, and also all important discoveries about the way the human body works. Wouldn't it be a turtley amazing thing if it turned out to be correct? It would be the equivalent of Shakespear's auntie having predicted movie cameras.

    As for (e.g.) physiotherapy - it is based on science, that is to say physiotherapeutic treatments are abandoned if more effective ones are found, that new discoveries about how the musculo-skeletal system works and how it integrates with the body as a whole are incorporated into physiotherapy teaching and understanding.

    The whole of 250 years of development of human understanding of medicine is ignored in its entirety by homoepathy; the basic principle remains 'a little of what kills you makes you better'.

    Bleah.

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    Re: BSc - in Homeopathy?

    To: whoever repped me (+ve, by the way, so no whinging please)

    I know the principles on which, for example, vaccination works.

    Homeopathy, however, relies on the principle regardless of all other knowledge. Plus, the magic bit - Fever? that means...you're hot. So...what makes you hot? chili peppers. OK, take chili peppers, grind them to a paste and mix one gram of the paste with 10,000 swimming pool fulls of distilled water and then drink a thimblefull. Next!

    ...erm...but my fever is caused by a bacterial infection. Couldn't I take some antibiotics?

    HA! You're willing to put the poisonous crap that multinational pharmaceuticals put on the market without any idea what disgusting horrible nasty unnatural chemicals it has in it?

    Here, have some rotted duck liver - it's great for flu!!

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    The Gobby one! WittyBird's Avatar
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    Re: BSc - in Homeopathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Yeah - and to be fair, they're not exactly from the top rank of universities either - university of Central Lancaster?
    Sorry to disagree with you DJ - Well actually I'm not (sorry that is)
    But The University of Central Lancashire was one of the top places in the country in my day (not that long ago before any of you start). If you went to 'Preston' You were/ still are considered extremely talented.

    I really wish people weren't so down on these Northern Monkey's who can't speak properly and just race whippets and pigeons whilst stroking their ferrets on a Sunday afternoon i'nt pub while t'wife cooks up black pudding and the kids joyride in BMW's after their shoplifting spree in 'Thrifty'.

    Allegedly they are human and do have feelings you know.


  20. #40
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: BSc - in Homeopathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by WittyBird View Post
    Sorry to disagree with you DJ - Well actually I'm not (sorry that is)
    But The University of Central Lancashire was one of the top places in the country in my day (not that long ago before any of you start). If you went to 'Preston' You were/ still are considered extremely talented.
    I do most 'umbly apologise.

    I was misled into thinking it was a dumbo university by the fact that it offers science degree courses in, as Barry would say, magic...

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