Climate change (was: Long, boring post...)

[Lynn]

I read today that standard lightbulbs are to be phased out starting now. 60w and 40w bulbs will be around for a couple more years, but the manufacture of 100w bulbs will cease very soon.

I plan to stock up on standard bulbs whilst they are still around because I really don't like the cold, harsh light given out by the new type of bulbs. It's impossible to create a really cosy environment with the new bulbs.

This might sound a little selfish, but my carbon foot print is otherwise conservative.

From what I have heard the newer bulbs have a warmer light - not colder. And also, from a recent TV interview - they weren't suggesting that everyone changes all their bulbs, just some, where practical. Where did you read that?

I use the currently available energy saving bulbs in living room lamps and some rooms. They definitely have a warm enough light, but take a while to reach full brightness. No idea what savings they are giving me in terms of electricity usage but one thing I do know, they last for years. And years.

But my carbon footprint I'm sure is higher than average. I fly back and forward to England quite a few times a year (mostly for dancing!), and while I do buy local where its convenient for me, at other times I buy goods that have been transported long distances.

[Spin dryer]

From what I have heard the newer bulbs have a warmer light - not colder. And also, from a recent TV interview - they weren't suggesting that everyone changes all their bulbs, just some, where practical. Where did you read that?

There was an article in today's London Evening Standard. Amongst other things, it said that Currys will now stop stocking standard bulbs. Given that most of the new ones won't work with dimmers, it does seem a little premature.

[Lynn]

There was an article in today's London Evening Standard. Amongst other things, it said that Currys will now stop stocking standard bulbs. Given that most of the new ones won't work with dimmers, it does seem a little premature.

The dimmer issue was one that was raised in the TV interview I saw (which was with someone I think from a supplier of the new bulbs) and that was what made them respond with the fact that they weren't expecting or suggesting that people changed all their bulbs to energy saving.

Aside from the dimmer issue, I think there are some places, for example hallways with stairs, where I feel that a standard bulb, with instant strength of light, is more appropriate.

[MartinHarper]

Aside from the dimmer issue, I think there are some places, for example hallways with stairs, where I feel that a standard bulb, with instant strength of light, is more appropriate.

There are energy saving bulbs that provide instant strength of light. I have them throughout my house. As you comment, it's also possible to get bulbs that provide "warm" light, though personally I don't care about that.

Given that most of the new ones won't work with dimmers, it does seem a little premature.

I fail to see how this is a problem. If you want dimmers, buy energy saving lightbulbs that work with dimmers. If you don't, don't.

[Lynn]

There are energy saving bulbs that provide instant strength of light. I have them throughout my house. As you comment, it's also possible to get bulbs that provide "warm" light, though personally I don't care about that.

Mine are possibly older or cheaper. I bought them years ago - when I need to change them, then I can get ones that don't take a couple of minutes to come up to full strength.

I fail to see how this is a problem. If you want dimmers, buy energy saving lightbulbs that work with dimmers. If you don't, don't.

The impression I got from the news item I saw was that they don't work with dimmers, but that may just have been that particular manufacturer. I didn't pay much attention as I don't have dimmers, but it was an issue raised by the interviewer.

[ducasi]

If you want dimmers, buy energy saving lightbulbs that work with dimmers.

I have never seen an energy saving bulb that works with dimmers or switches that require a trickle current. Where do you get such things?

[Beowulf]

I fail to see how this is a problem. If you want dimmers, buy energy saving light bulbs that work with dimmers. If you don't, don't.

The impression I got from the news item I saw was that they don't work with dimmers,

Hmm.. I have energy saving bulbs in use in my flat and I would have liked to have used them in the living room but it's got recessed alcove lights and a ceiling pendant both wired into dimmer switches.

If energy efficient bulbs can work with dimmer switches then I'll have to look into this..

btw.. does anyone know of a low energy replacement for these tiny screw in spot lights? I was looking at LED lighting but I'm not impressed with the fittings they have on offer, it would be better for me if I could use my existing light fitting and get some sort of compatible low-energy bulb for them.

[MartinHarper]

I have never seen an energy saving bulb that works with dimmers or switches that require a trickle current. Where do you get such things?

here's one product.

Such solutions will improve as they become mandatory. Also, the cost should go down. Everyone's a winner.

[Jhutch]

Would have to be, only monetary interests would get the programme made in the face of such disasterous reality.

The ice caps are melting. This is big news. Living anywhere near water will be much more at risk from flooding.
Nuclear energy is the worst

Actually, melting ice caps will not add that much to sea levels overall. However, the thermal expansion of the oceans will.

The North Pole melting in summer will not add anything to water levels directly as it is simply a matter of ice turning to water - nothing is being added to the ocean really. However, melting of the ice caps on land would have an effect - i think that the Greenland ice cap would contibute about 7 metres to sea levels where it to melt completely (although this would take hundreds of years). The West Antarctic Ice Sheet would add the same while the East Antarctic could potentially contribute about 60 metres (cant remember the exact figures off the top of my head). However, a warmer world and changing weather patterns could mean that more precipitation falls in the colder areas meaning that more snow accumulates in these areas counteracting the increased melting from warmer temperatures.

[Jhutch]

Interesting that you have an inside track. Your company provides weather forecasting information too?

Not really sure that i have an inside track when it comes to climate change - i do day-to-day forecasting rather than study climate

[Jhutch]

Hey 18 months ago we were going to have perpetual drought, don’t see that one at present

ps why was the hurrican season less active last year ?

:

Well it was up against a record year

The inital forecast for last year's hurricane season was quite poor but i think that El Nino developed more than expected (generally speaking El Nino means that conditions are less favourable for hurricanes). Interestingly, the general consensus seems to be that global warming will not affect the number of hurricanes that much but will result in the hurricanes that do occur becoming stronger.

[stewart38]

Well, more exposition than answer. I was simply making a comparison - Venus possibly never made it out of the greenhouse stage; the RealClimate explanation for CO2 lag as against global temperatures never once explains how what would certainly appear to be a runaway effect - warming increases CO2, CO2 accelerates warming - was brought to a halt.

You know, generally, when one conversationalist observes to another 'X is like Y, really', it isn't common for the second conversationalist to respond with a list of ways in which X and Y are not identical.

X and Y are not alike as stated, apart from their size. My comment isn’t ‘fact’ just one explanation. You could say a cricket ball and tennis ball are ‘alike’ in some ways they are in others their not

If you ‘boil’ water at 30c or 100c you will get different results ,both pots of water will evapourate

What brings a CO2 run away to a halt ?

A green house will only get so hot then it reaches a maximum , much of that heat in the green house is caused by the sun rays that enter the green house but get ‘trapped’ bouncing back out.

At some stage other factors take place so green house in summer may reach 120f (90f outside temp) or 50F in winter (outside 40f). It doesn’t get to 300f etc

All we know

Venus is a lot hotter then it should be given its distance from the sun, so something ‘happen’

Something ‘happens’ around C02

The 800yr lag ? (cant remember if it was that period) was very interesting

[Barry Shnikov]

A green house will only get so hot then it reaches a maximum , much of that heat in the green house is caused by the sun rays that enter the green house but get ‘trapped’ bouncing back out.

At some stage other factors take place so green house in summer may reach 120f (90f outside temp) or 50F in winter (outside 40f). It doesn’t get to 300f etc

Have that man washed and taken to my dressing room. You have brilliantly exposed the limitations in the 'greenhouse' and 'planet' analogy. Amongst other things:

Greenhouses are in the dark for 50% of the time; planets are not; that in itself would prevent a runaway effect.

A greenhouse can't get hot or active enough to release its own stores of greenhouse gases, unless you blowtorch the frames.

...and so on.

[ducasi]

here's one product.

Such solutions will improve as they become mandatory. Also, the cost should go down. Everyone's a winner.

They better improve – because this is a really awful product. It doesn't actually work with dimmer switches (the way you'd expect.)

The dimmer is in the bulb, and to change the brightness you've got to stand switching the lights on and off in various patterns. Oh, and you've only got 4 different levels of brightness.

Not good enough – and I still can't use it with my switches that need a trickle current.

[tsh]

They better improve – because this is a really awful product. It doesn't actually work with dimmer switches (the way you'd expect.)

The dimmer is in the bulb, and to change the brightness you've got to stand switching the lights on and off in various patterns. Oh, and you've only got 4 different levels of brightness.

The easiest solution for that is probably to go to radio control of the individual lights (which is coming in industrial applications where the location of switches isn't known in advance). What you need is an X-10 light bulb...

Sean

[Dreadful Scathe]

or fireflys in a lantern

[Jhutch]

Greenhouses are in the dark for 50% of the time; planets are not; that in itself would prevent a runaway effect.

...and so on.

Well actually planets are 50% in the dark all the time

[Barry Shnikov]

Well actually planets are 50% in the dark all the time

That's nearly a good point...

[Jhutch]

That's nearly a good point...

Only nearly?

The point is that if a greenhouse hasnt reached an equilibrium temperature then the cooling won't offset the warming - therefore it will get cooler in winter but not become as cool as the previous winter all things being equal.

Am not sure whether the lack of a runaway CO2 effect on earth is due to negative feedback (ie, at some point CO2 causes something to happen that starts counteracting the effect that increased CO2 has) - or whether it is down to the fact that things that are warmer give off more heat

[stewart38]

Have that man washed and taken to my dressing room. You have brilliantly exposed the limitations in the 'greenhouse' and 'planet' analogy. Amongst other things:

Greenhouses are in the dark for 50% of the time; planets are not; that in itself would prevent a runaway effect.

A greenhouse can't get hot or active enough to release its own stores of greenhouse gases, unless you blowtorch the frames.

...and so on.

Its not an analogy its trying to explain things in 'simple terms' ie something else happens to stop the 'run' away. ie why doesnt the sun inblode under its own gravity etc etc

Planets have day and nights , some are fairly long (day and nights). interesting things would happen if the Eart didnt rotate (theory of course)

yawn

anyway dont have time to explain physics

The London Lite today

The hottest winter EVER (ever is in red and bold)

Actually then it says in last 125yrs

I bet it also is looking at maxs and not averages

Its all *******s but people believe it

least they blame EL neno and not global warming

pictures of snowmen next week please