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Thread: Climate change (was: Long, boring post...)

  1. #81
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    Re: Climate change (was: Long, boring post...)

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    They better improve.
    And they will. Worst case, we live without dimmer switches. If that's the only way that global warming impacts my life, I'll be very happy.

    I recall a lot of people complaining about the poor performance of unleaded cars. Now that leaded petrol has been banned, complaining has ceased. Technology has compensated to some extent, and people have adjusted their needs to match what is achievable.

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    Re: Long, boring post...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jhutch View Post
    The West Antarctic Ice Sheet would add the same while the East Antarctic could potentially contribute about 60 metres (cant remember the exact figures off the top of my head). However, a warmer world and changing weather patterns could mean that more precipitation falls in the colder areas meaning that more snow accumulates in these areas counteracting the increased melting from warmer temperatures.
    East Antarctic (from memory )

    FACT

    Despite very low rates of snowfall and low ice-flow rates, the huge area of the East Antarctic ice sheet means that even tiny changes in the thickness in this region could have a substantial effect on sea level rise. Recent evidence from satellite altimeters suggests that over the last decade there has been a thickening of a couple of centimetres per year and a little more in some limited regions Debate concerning the exact distribution and magnitude of this change continue. It is possible that this observation represents the emergence of a long-predicted consequence of anthropogenic climate change, that the rate of snow-fall over Antarctica will increase, and act to slow the rate of sea level rise.


    THE SUN (paper)

    Antarctic to melt by 2012 sea levels will rise by 300ft we will only have plastic daffodils see page 3 for hot tips how to avoid the tidle waves

  3. #83
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    Re: Climate change (was: Long, boring post...)

    There's an interesting article on the New Scientist website this week about climate change.

    It's coming from the perspective of "26 most common climate change myths and misconceptions" - including many of the points mentioned in this thread.
    Love dance, will travel

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    Re: Climate change (was: Long, boring post...)

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY View Post
    There's an interesting article on the New Scientist website this week about climate change.

    It's coming from the perspective of "26 most common climate change myths and misconceptions" - including many of the points mentioned in this thread.
    Thank you. That was an absolutely fabulous example of the internet at its best, well done to New Scientist (which for a long time seemed happy to use a crippled internet site as a way of enticing people to buy a subscription).

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    Re: Climate change (was: Long, boring post...)

    Had a dig around concerning the recent High Court judge ruling on whether the Gore film "An Inconvenient Truth" could be shown in schools. Turns out the court case was financed (to the tune of £200,000 costs) by Lord Monckton, who wrote the manifesto for the New Party, a delightfully Orwellian name for what appears to be a bunch of crazed right-wing zealots. Oh, and the school governor who brought the case, a Mr. Stewart Dimmock, turns out to be a member of the New Party. Not that this merited more than one line in the BBC's main coverage of the affair, which portrayed it all as "Local hero stands up to bigshot American political propagandist". It became more visible in a Radio 4 interview with him, though.

    Hilariously, Dimmock commented on the result of the case "If it was not for the case brought by myself, our young people would still be being indoctrinated with this political spin". Hilarious, that is, in light of the fact that Monckton is now behind moves to have copies of the notorious Martin Durkin documentary, ‘The Great Global Warming Swindle’, sent to 3,400 UK secondary schools “to counter Gore’s flagrant propaganda”. An initiative being funded by a right-wing American think-tank, the innocently named Science and Public Policy Institute, which is in turn funded by the usual suspects: the petrochemical industry.

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    Re: Climate change (was: Long, boring post...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart M View Post
    Had a dig around concerning the recent High Court judge ruling on whether the Gore film "An Inconvenient Truth" could be shown in schools. Turns out the court case was financed (to the tune of £200,000 costs) by Lord Monckton, who wrote the manifesto for the New Party, a delightfully Orwellian name for what appears to be a bunch of crazed right-wing zealots. Oh, and the school governor who brought the case, a Mr. Stewart Dimmock, turns out to be a member of the New Party. Not that this merited more than one line in the BBC's main coverage of the affair, which portrayed it all as "Local hero stands up to bigshot American political propagandist". It became more visible in a Radio 4 interview with him, though.

    Hilariously, Dimmock commented on the result of the case "If it was not for the case brought by myself, our young people would still be being indoctrinated with this political spin". Hilarious, that is, in light of the fact that Monckton is now behind moves to have copies of the notorious Martin Durkin documentary, ‘The Great Global Warming Swindle’, sent to 3,400 UK secondary schools “to counter Gore’s flagrant propaganda”. An initiative being funded by a right-wing American think-tank, the innocently named Science and Public Policy Institute, which is in turn funded by the usual suspects: the petrochemical industry.

    I had to scrap frost off my car today (18th October !). Global warming no doubt

    Good links

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    Re: Climate change (was: Long, boring post...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart M View Post
    the innocently named Science and Public Policy Institute, which is in turn funded by the usual suspects: the petrochemical industry.
    Who else you you expect to fund it? Bear in mind that researchers in any field have to keep their funding bodies happy, and this will fairly obviously make them selective about the results they chose to report. Students usually have to make some pretence at agreeing with their supervisors as well.

    It should be fairly obvious by now that lots of people are making lots of money out of the scare stories.

    Sean

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    Re: Climate change (was: Long, boring post...)

    Quote Originally Posted by tsh View Post
    Who else you you expect to fund it?
    Not really my point - given the weight of scientific opinion currently, I wouldn't really expect otherwise. My point is, the funding should either be transparent, or an allegedly unbaised media source should make the public aware of it through, um, investigative journalism. Crazy notion, I know.

    It takes a fair bit of digging in this instance to show that an attempt to discredit climate change research, is being funded by vested interests. The BBC did little to highlight that.
    Quote Originally Posted by tsh View Post
    It should be fairly obvious by now that lots of people are making lots of money out of the scare stories.
    As opposed to the people well used to making money out of the status quo, doing everything they can covertly to prevent that status quo being changed? Compared to the amount of money they're making, the cash being made by the likes of Gore and Durkin (to pick examples from two "sides of the debate") is piffling.

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    Re: Climate change (was: Long, boring post...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart M View Post
    Not really my point - given the weight of scientific opinion currently, I wouldn't really expect otherwise. My point is, the funding should either be transparent, or an allegedly unbaised media source should make the public aware of it through, um, investigative journalism. Crazy notion, I know.

    It takes a fair bit of digging in this instance to show that an attempt to discredit climate change research, is being funded by vested interests. The BBC did little to highlight that.

    As opposed to the people well used to making money out of the status quo, doing everything they can covertly to prevent that status quo being changed? Compared to the amount of money they're making, the cash being made by the likes of Gore and Durkin (to pick examples from two "sides of the debate") is piffling.
    The whole global warming band wagon are the most bias self centered group of people that are in existance supported by the media who put a drop of a leaf down to global warming. Carbon print is big business

    95% of the crap that comes out re global warming is without any foundation what so ever

    The fact we had 1 small item that went the other way and was bias speaks for itself

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    Re: Climate change (was: Long, boring post...)

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    95% of the crap that comes out re global warming is without any foundation what so ever
    What's the R2 factor of that statistic?

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    Re: Climate change (was: Long, boring post...)

    Quote Originally Posted by tsh View Post
    What's the R2 factor of that statistic?
    The R2 haplotype in factor V is characterized by an A4070G substitution (His1299Arg) in the factor V molecule and is associated with mild APC resistance,4 but the underlying molecular mechanism remains unclear.

    For global 'we are not clear' so showing a polar bear thats about to 'drown' because of global warming is 'crap'

    Did you know much of Antartica has acually cooled in the last 40 years ?

    We can see if we use a scatter plot (whats publish as fact and whats real fact) that the R2 factor is large (0.82), there is a single “outlier” data point called the Daliy newspapers.

    If we had had a hot dry summer it would be mentioned 25,000 times as evidence of 'global warming'


    I dont dispute the Earth is warming but the amount 'crap' that comes out is alarming to the average well educated Daily Mail reader

    ps will there be another frost tonight ?

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    Re: Climate change (was: Long, boring post...)

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    I had to scrap frost off my car today (18th October !). Global warming no doubt

    Good links
    Goodness! Frost is far too valuable to scrap; wrap it up and keep it in the garage. Could be a sensible move!

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    Re: Climate change (was: Long, boring post...)

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    I dont dispute the Earth is warming but the amount 'crap' that comes out is alarming to the average well educated Daily Mail reader
    Moderators: I think S38 meant to post this in the 'Oxymoron' thread.

    Oi! 'Oo are you callin' a moron?

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    Re: Climate change (was: Long, boring post...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart M View Post
    Compared to the amount of money they're making, the cash being made by the likes of Gore and Durkin (to pick examples from two "sides of the debate") is piffling.
    I'm not convinced on that one.

    It seems to me that politicians - at least in the UK - like global change. It gives them the chance to sound like far-sighted altruistic statesmen, it gives them lots of power, and it enables them to take the non-controversial "high ground" position.

    I'd like to see some politicians put the opposite case - for example, supporting Bjørn Lomborg's view - the views of the Copenhagen Consensus are very interesting to me, and I'd like to see some rational "manage the problem" policies, rather than jetting around trying to set up failed global "don't do this" authorities, which is what people have been doing for the past 15+ years...

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    Re: Climate change (was: Long, boring post...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Goodness! Frost is far too valuable to scrap; wrap it up and keep it in the garage. Could be a sensible move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Moderators: I think S38 meant to post this in the 'Oxymoron' thread.
    I see Barry is throwing stones again kids never learn

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    My last post on this thread.

    I wasn't 'throwing stones'! I set out the rules on apostrophes in a helpful and friendly frame of mind. I did say so before; it seems that I am not believed. Well, horse to water, and all that.

    Those of you who think that explaining grammatical rules is automatically some sort of insult must have had a pretty awful time at school!

    I don't know what else I can do
    You scrap your car ill scrape mind tomorrow, happy now

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    Re: Climate change (was: Long, boring post...)

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    I'm not convinced on that one.

    It seems to me that politicians - at least in the UK - like global change. It gives them the chance to sound like far-sighted altruistic statesmen, it gives them lots of power, and it enables them to take the non-controversial "high ground" position.
    True, but I wasn't talking about politicians in my comment. And s38's comment
    The whole global warming band wagon are the most bias self centered group of people that are in existance supported by the media who put a drop of a leaf down to global warming. Carbon print is big business
    needs a bit of perspective.

    Exxon Mobil's profits ran at around $1200 per second last year (about $40 billion) Now, I think they're rather keen to defend that. In fact what I think is irrelevant - the people who run Exxon Mobil are legally bound not just to defend that, but to seek to increase it. And they are only one corporation, albeit the biggest.

    Perhaps I misunderstood tsh's post, which implied to me that the likes of Gore were simply in this for the money. My point was that yes, perhaps Gore is, but right now he's nowhere near as big a problem as those who, by legal requirement, ARE in it for the money. I might get a balanced opinion from the likes of Gore. I can't get a balanced opinion from Exxon Mobil, because legally they simply aren't allowed to.
    Last edited by Stuart M; 18th-October-2007 at 04:05 PM.

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    Re: Climate change (was: Long, boring post...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart M View Post
    And s38's comment needs a bit of perspective.



    You can have from the Sun

    ---------------

    They cling precariously to the top of what is left of the ice floe, their fragile grip the perfect symbol of the tragedy of global warming.
    Captured on film by Canadian environmentalists, the pair of polar bears look stranded on chunks of broken ice.
    Although the magnificent creatures are well adapted to the water, and can swim scores of miles to solid land, the distance is getting ever greater as the Arctic ice diminishes.


    Or from the Daily Mail ??



    Scientists believe that four bears which recently drowned off the coast of Alaska had simply been unable to cope with a violent storm


    Stewart38
    Oil Baron

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    Re: Climate change (was: Long, boring post...)

    Ice on the car again and its only mid October

    Colours on trees turn a month early then they use to , Ice age on the way

    wouldnt it be fantasic if there was a cold cold winter

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    Re: Climate change (was: Long, boring post...)

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    I see Barry is throwing stones again kids never learn
    You scrap your car ill scrape mind tomorrow, happy now
    If you are making the point that my posts are logically inconsistent you must think that my posts were rude. They weren't meant to be, and I'm sorry if they came across like that. They were meant to be humorous. I almost never pick someone up for a typo unless I can make a joke about it. If you look, you'll see that's true.

    The Daily Mail thing, I suppose, is bordering on being rude, but it's only at the banter level...

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    Re: Climate change (was: Long, boring post...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    If you are making the point that my posts are logically inconsistent you must think that my posts were rude. They weren't meant to be, and I'm sorry if they came across like that. They were meant to be humorous. I almost never pick someone up for a typo unless I can make a joke about it. If you look, you'll see that's true.

    The Daily Mail thing, I suppose, is bordering on being rude, but it's only at the banter level...
    My point is I need a new job
    Last edited by stewart38; 19th-October-2007 at 11:36 AM.

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