ok.. this is something i am struggling with and perhpas somebody could give me some tips on how to overcome it.
I have never been dropped that much but recently, due to weight loss, i am having leaders do it with me more often. I have since discovered though that i am taking the weight on the wrong leg. As i understand it, it should be on the leg nearest to the lead that the weight is taken and the outside leg stretched out. I am finding this impossible as i do the complete reverse. Is it a matter of practicing or do i have a weakness in my legs or does it not really matter.
Help guys.!!!
It's usually the one nearest the lead yes, I'm not sure if it's more a style thing which I've heard, doing a drop on that leg gives a better line. I'm sure there's something to do with balance in there too
Sometimes tho I've been led into a drop and ended up on the wrong leg for it, and on certain drops I am guilty of using the wrong leg purposely due to injury.
I'm sure experts amongst us will tell me off too for using the wrong leg, but not fallen yet! (touch wood)
I think its supposed to be the leg nearest the lead, but sometimes it feels so uncomfortable and its easier with the other leg.
A tip to get your other leg in on the action.
Find a volunteer to dip you and do lots of them again and again and again. Eventually your "alpha" leg will feel tired and you will have to use your other leg.
I don't think it really matters unless you wanted to take your dancing into competitions, but I've been told by a judge that sometimes the judges don't even notice if you use the wrong leg. (Maybe that depends on how long you are in the dip for though).
Hi Trouble,
To do a drop safely and stylishly it's best to bend your right leg (the one nearest your partner) with the left stretched out with your foot pointed and touching the floor. Your body should be straight and your head looking to the left (and not thrown back).
You can practice bending your right leg without a partner until you get used to using this leg, and will be suprised at what angle you can get to unsupported by a partner. For safety's sake (remember if anything goes wrong it'll be you landing on the floor) take as much of your own weight as possible on your right leg and only do drops with someone you trust. If your left leg is off the floor or you throw your head back you will be off balance and your weight will be thrown back, making the move more difficult. If you think someone's going to try a drop with you and you don't want to do it just step back with your left leg and the move becomes impossible.
With your new found skills I look forward to our next dance.
Not that I am in any way qualified to comment on this (so feel free to dismiss), but my understanding is that it is indeed preferable to use the leg nearer to the lead for balance purposes - must have something to do with your center of gravity being closer to the guy (especially as you push to get back up again). Also I imagine that with speed and momentum there is a slight chance if things go badly wrong that you might tip over to the wrong side (away from the lead) if you use the outside leg. (back to the center of gravity thing, you want it and your weight to be as close as the lead's body to seem 'lighter' for him - especially if things go wrong I guess).
It's just a matter of getting used to it really, personally I don't do many drops in freestyle but if I do a workshop that involves them, my right thigh will hurt badly for a couple of days afterwards (as that's usually the one nearer to the lead). You just need to get the muscles (quadriceps) used to it (a few trips to the gym might help, but like anything else, you need keep exercising to maintain it).
As a leader I would just like to express my view that I much prefer it if the follower doesn't use her leg muscles to push herself up. I would much prefer it if the follower would just use their core muscles to hold thier bodies stiff like a plank while I do the job of getting them back up to the vertical.Originally Posted by Caro
When a follower pushes herself up then, for me, it is an unknown quantity and it affects my stability and I have to adjust the power I am using for the lift. As well as this the follower tends to "unlock" her core muscles and starts becoming unstable in that her centre of gravity starts making movements that are hard for me to predict.
As for which leg to use to take the weight on - there are arguements for each choice but we use the leg nearest the leader to be the bent leg so that the other leg can form part of an unbroken line from toe to fingers purely because we think it looks the nicest.
The most important factor we have found for comfort in drops is to adjust the relative starting positions of the leaders and followers feet so when we have arrived at the hold point of the drop then my partners center of gravity (about her navel) is as close to my centre of gravity as possible. When this happens the drops seem effortless. It seems as the two C.O.G.s get further apart the drop needs much more strength from both of us.
IF ONLY!
I strained my right knee in a drop a few weeks ago, so am avoiding drops.
Had not realised i could use my left leg, must try that.
Hi personally I prefer ladies to keep their bodies straight and stiff and leave the rest to meok.. this is something i am struggling with and perhpas somebody could give me some tips on how to overcome it.
I have never been dropped that much but recently, due to weight loss, i am having leaders do it with me more often. I have since discovered though that i am taking the weight on the wrong leg. As i understand it, it should be on the leg nearest to the lead that the weight is taken and the outside leg stretched out. I am finding this impossible as i do the complete reverse. Is it a matter of practicing or do i have a weakness in my legs or does it not really matter.
Help guys.!!!
Interesting point... I understand the unknown quantity bit, yet I've never seen a drop taught without the teacher saying that follows have to help in getting back up by pushing their hips up (I know I said thighs but it was an over-simplification).
My feeling when I do it, is that it's very much a gradual thing (the closer I get to the vertical, the less you carry) so why would that impact you as a lead? Surely the less weight you have to lift up, the better for you ?
Could other leads and people who teach drops enlighten me on that point please?
I automatically take my weight on my right foot, as most drops I'm put into usually my right leg is on the inside...
I do however sometimes manage to take my weight on my left foot when dropped the other way, it's weird and does seem like I should have my weight on my right but I suppose it looks better to have your weight on your inside leg.
I've always been taught that the follower should use her leg closest to the lead for support because it just looks nicer most of the time, and that she should carry as much of her own weight as possible. So pretty much what Caro said
I prefer the lady to take her own weight as it makes recovery from a drop with any degree of musicality (or even just on a beat) much easier and puts more of the responsibility for the followers safety on the follower herself (she's the one with more of a reason to worry about it after all :P). I also think it looks nicer if I don't have to labour to pull my partner up at all and a team effort looks much closer to effortless. It also means that it's less likely to go wrong as the follower is mostly maintaining her own balance, and while that shouldn't matter if everything is perfect that isn't always the case.
I am not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying that most men are putting you into drops that they cannot get you back out of? If that is the case then they need to learn the wisdom of taking a cautious approach when trying something with a new partner.
I wonder if we are talking about two different things and going at slightly cross meanings here. I think of things where the lady takes all her own weight as being DIPS and the man can let go of the follower because they are taking all their own weight and are on balance in their own right. When the woman would be off balance and therefore fall if the man walked away then I think of that as a DROP. A dip should not require any effort from the man because the follower is on balance at all times (even if the pose would look strange if she did it on her own). A drop would require effort from the man in order to make an exit.
I completely agree that having to struggle to get out of a drop looks very undignified for both parties. For him it implies that his ego is writing cheques that his muscles can’t cash and for her it implies that she is much heavier than she looks.
All I started out trying to get across was that it is much easier to lift a person who was strapped to a stretcher than to lift the same person if they were unconscious and floppy. The stability of the person being lifted makes the task of lifting them much easier.
My understanding of the “push the hips up” bit is that this is done so that makes the follower more straight and tight around the hips section. The absolute killer for getting the lady back up out of a drop is if she lets her hips drop down towards the floor. Even quite small ladies can feel like a ton if they do this. They sometimes get into this situation if they try to push themselves up using their supporting foot. Once they find that they cannot do this from a drop (their knee is nearly at 90 degrees bent at this point) they then try to bring their other foot underneath their bottom and in the process most (I know a few exceptions) followers let their hips sink. I sometimes try the approach of telling the follower to squeeze their buttocks together when in the drop position and for most followers this locks them in position and makes them very easy to lift.
It sounds like YOU are doing it right. At the bottom of the drop your supporting knee is bent at nearly 90 degrees and there is very little push you can give and as you get closer to the vertical you can add more push from your supporting leg. At those times when it all goes wrong is when the lady tries to push her self all the way up from the nearly horizontal on her own and her resulting struggles mean that the man is trying to lift someone that is moving like a struggling child being forced to do something they don’t like. Also the man knows how much strength he is going to put into the lift but he has no idea how much you are going to put in. If you put in nothing he can judge how much force he needs through the whole of the lift so that you arrive upright and perfectly on balance.
However it has to be said that there are some daft leaders who put woman B into a deep drop because they managed it with woman A. A more cautious approach would be to ask the lady first if she is happy about doing drops with you, then try something cautious and see how you get on before going straight for a “hair on the floor” depth of drop.
Hopefully Mr Lounge Lizzard will see this thread and make a few comments. He is the only specialist teacher of drops that I know of. I am sure that he would be able to express things better.Could other leads and people who teach drops enlighten me on that point please?
We might be a little bit. Let me try to explain....
When I say she takes her own weight in a drop, I don't mean fully. That would make it a dip exactly as you describe. What I do mean is that she takes as much of her own weight as she possibly can, and the man takes the rest.
I've not seen this in the UK, but from where I am the ladies are taught to drop directly over their own heel, which is positioned directly between the guys feet (unless led to go somewhere else of course for odd drops). At the bottom of the drop they're virtually sitting on the back of that heel, in a dead straight line with their abdominals tensed. Their supporting knee is bent as far as it can be.
This makes the lady quite light in the drop as most of their weight is conviniently supported through a mechanical line of their foot with minimal use of strength from either party. If the guy lets go she will fall of course, but at least she isn't being heavy so she is much less likely to destablise the guy.
This down position also has the advantage of looking very neat, with no knees sticking up past her body in the air.
The guy initiates the stand up, and the woman kicks in and helps as soon as she is able, which is pretty soon since her leg isn't strained already by taking all her weight on various muscles whose names I don't know in her leg.
Does that description help anybody?
I usually go for the 'leg nearest partner' option but sometimes, in a drop or dip the other way, will still use my right leg if it feels more comfortable, simply because its stronger. It would probably be a good idea for me to practice drops the other way to even things out a bit!
Will have to think about how I get back up again - I think it depends on my partner. Some leads expect you to provide some of the 'power' to get back up again I think. Like I said I'll need to think about that one.
I do know that I try to take as much of my own weight as possible as far as I can. Would that make it easier/harder for a lead to bring me back out of the drop?
As I'm not exactly small, I don't get dropped that often - and find that I can't take *all* my own weight if a deep dip or drop (as opposed to seducer) is led. Really need to get out of the habit of grabbing the lead's neck in panic when that happens
Chef said it helps if the follower holds their bodies stiff - plank-like is a good description - I find this (rather than folding in the middle) also helps me keep as much of my weight as possible. I know I'm *really* going to regret saying this...- but Nigel told me to think pelvic thrust (er, not an actual pelvic thrust, but use the same muscles *just* as the lead starts to lead you out of the drop) to help lift meself back out of a drop (i.e. don't 'lift' from shoulders or knees).
I can understand that.
There isn't much in the way of regular teaching of drops that I know of in the UK. There is some at weekenders and the odd cute drop once in a blue moon in regular classes. But if you want much emphasis on technique then that is usually found at weekender classes.
Having the ladies supporting foot directly between the leader feet may end up having a pleasing leg line for the supporting leg but I can't see that the woman can put any helpful power through her leg with it almost folded under her with her heel on her bottom. I am sure there are many women out there that can manage it but it sounds like a good way to pull a thigh muscle to me (one has to be more careful as one gets older).
I also cannot see any point in the woman trying to put power into the floor in this leg folded under themself position. The man is in a sideways lunge, his back is vertical and her centre of gravity is pretty much directly below his chin. The amount of power you have in that position make any contribution from the lady in her position seem meaningless.
If it works for you both then I guess it works for you both. There are many ways to skin a cat after all.
I can see this. The follower is putting her support point on the floor closer to her centre of gravity. I have just tried putting my shoulders on the edge of a sofa and putting my right heel under my bottom and my left foot stretched out. I tried to support my weight on my two feet in this way. I must say I found it darned painful. I wouldn't want to do 20 drops in a row in a lesson like that. Still if it works then it works.
I can see how the position of this supporting leg would look very neat.
Yes, the description was helpful.
Owing to old injuries and knee surgery my right knee and the muscles surrounding it are not strong enough to take my weight and will collapse. So I can only use my left leg in a drop.
I rarely do drops but if I do I know full well that the line is not as pleasing to look at. But until my right knee is stronger with all the physio I am doing I can't do anything else. I think there will be a residual weakness anyway in my right knee when I get it back to strength.
As I said, the guy initiates it. The girl just helps on the way up. It doesn't make a big difference in the bottom of the drop, but it's much easier at the end and so the recovery is cleaner.
I don't know if you meant this or not, but in Auckland the guy is taught to keep an even weight distribution as it makes recovery easier and adds to stability.
A better approximation would be to hang from a low bar with your arms. Weight through the arms is much more comfortable than through the shoulderblades. The womans weight is supported through her arms and supporting foot, rather than both feet.I can see this. The follower is putting her support point on the floor closer to her centre of gravity. I have just tried putting my shoulders on the edge of a sofa and putting my right heel under my bottom and my left foot stretched out. I tried to support my weight on my two feet in this way. I must say I found it darned painful. I wouldn't want to do 20 drops in a row in a lesson like that. Still if it works then it works.
I should probably also say that the projected foot slides out from the supporting one on the way down so there's no toppling tree trunk effect which makes many ladies feel heavy. The ''falling'' look is therefore largely illusionary.
As you say though, there are many ways to skin a cat. This is just my prefered one with the reasons I like it.
Yes, the description was helpful.
Interesting. So the guy stays split weighted in the drop and the change in his height is done sumo wrestler style? You can use the power from both thighs to do the lift.
I have been doing it by keeping my right leg straight and moving my left leg out to the left to take the drop lower. Just straightening that left leg starts the woman coming up and then I just slide the left leg back to the right. I will give the sumo style a try though just to see what it is like. I am sure it will fit right in with my build.
Well I had a sofa but not a low bar.so I tried it on the sofa.
You give good post.Great to discuss stuff with you.
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