The 14-stone 8-year-old...

[Mezzosoprano]

Sometimes there's nothing a parent can do about a situation....from experience here - anorexics/bulimics in fact anyone with any kind of issue around food (I hate the term eating disorder!) are very clever about hiding their problem from others...
My parents always ate healthily... my brother is a string bean with no food issues....
when my parents tried to restrict the amount of unhealthy foods I was eating, I started smuggling them - I got very big... then I started a diet.... stopped eating much other than jelly and carrots and got very very thin. then I was hiding food. Issues resolved when I got older and now I'm just a plump thirty something who loves to dance and sing. But I still know exactly how many calories are in a flake!!

[Genie]

I have to admit to knowing more competant fathers than mothers. And I know my own father had a lasting and important effect on my life. I would not have succeeded in life without him and his commitment and love for my family.

I know more men who are struggling with difficult partners (spendthrifts, lazy arses, or just plain unpleasant to be with - I have met them!) and desperate to remain in the house to be with the children they love, than I do women in the same situation (that doesn't mean there aren't any, I am just speaking from my own experiences)

I am not saying that there are not a lot of men who abandon wife and children when things don't suite them. I do know there are a lot of women who ditch hubby (for another man, or because they just don't like being with him anymore) and take the kids from him entirely - which is grossly unfair!

I know one girl whose mother left her when she was little with the phrase "I'm sorry, I just don't really like children". And I know of several men who were changed by their children - they became better people and stuck by their kids at the expense of everything else.

There are a lot of reasons for the increase in divorce rate. It does take two. And I know of more than one man who became a father 'unwillingly' and stuck by his children anyway. When a woman lies about whether or not she is on the pill, I believe the man has every right not to accept the child. The fact that they do says a lot for their character.

Men are not monsters. There are too many good men in the world to believe that.

As for diets - my parents had the opinion that if I got fussy, I'd go hungry. Funnily enough, I wasn't fussy. Neither is my brother. We were allowed our dislikes (sprouts, broccoli, peas, sausages - being a few of our combined dislikes - we weren't ever actually starved - a child will learn quite quickly that they won't get dessert or chocolates etc if they don't eat their veg.) but we were not allowed to suddenly refuse to eat anything but pizza and chips. We were fed a healthy variety of home cooked food and pizzas etc., and if we were good, were allowed chocolates and sweets. Both my brother and I are very tall and very thin. We eat just about everything and anything. We certainly didn't suffer from it. I thank my parents for their struggle on our behalf. I love my food.

I have to agree with Gav (was it gav?) on one thing - some of the children I see causing a fuss in supermarkets (each holding toys or crayons but ignoring them in favour of pulling things off the shelves and then screaming about it) need a good smack. Not a painful or dangerous one. A sharp smack on the bottom never did me any harm (still doesn't ) but it did get the message cross. Small children don't understand reason. They are not old enough to truely understand social rights and wrongs. A (gentle) smack they understand. I learnt right from wrong that way. My parents never hit me hard or did me any damage. But I thank them for their discipline. I wish more parents had the same control over their kids. And before anyone says it - no, I wasn't unhappy as a child. Far from it. Once I learned that "stop it" or "no" meant that if I didn't obey I'd likely get a smack, I just did what they said without much argument - and certainly without screaming or causing a scene in public. This meant they had more time to treat and reward me for good behaviour I had a happy childhood. What's with the kids who hang around outside asda in large groups running sharp objects down people's cars, swearing in loud voices and being a public nuisance!?

They get me really angry. They throw snowballs with rocks in them at passing cars. Do they not understand how dangerous and wrong that is? They could get someone killed! Where are their parents? Who lets a 13 year old girl hang out in car parks after dark? What is with people?!

*wonders off for sherry and shortbread*

[Mezzosoprano]

What's with the kids who hang around outside asda in large groups running sharp objects down people's cars, swearing in loud voices and being a public nuisance!?

They get me really angry. They throw snowballs with rocks in them at passing cars. Do they not understand how dangerous and wrong that is? They could get someone killed! Where are their parents? Who lets a 13 year old girl hang out in car parks after dark? What is with people?!

Couldn't agree with you more

[Double Trouble]

some of the children I see causing a fuss in supermarkets (each holding toys or crayons but ignoring them in favour of pulling things off the shelves and then screaming about it) need a good smack. Not a painful or dangerous one. A sharp smack on the bottom never did me any harm (still doesn't ) but it did get the message cross. Small children don't understand reason. They are not old enough to truely understand social rights and wrongs. A (gentle) smack they understand. I learnt right from wrong that way.

Oh dear....controversial.

As a mother who has been in a supermarket with three screaming kids..every week for the last god knows how many years actually, you are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

On the one hand...you get the pensioners who shout at you 'cant you control your children? they need a good smack' on the other hand, you get the PC brigade who will call social services if you so much as look at your child in the wrong way.

You'll like this.

When I was in Malta and my daughter was having a tantrum in the airport...the only thing me and my husband could do was strap her in the buggy to stop her hurting herself. One of the airport police came over and pointed a gun (I'm not joking) at my husband....called him evil and incapable of being a good father...and if he didnt pick our daughter up and try to pacify her, he would put him in jail......!

It's not easy being a parent......now that is a fact I would like someone to argue with me about.

[Genie]

It's not easy being a parent......now that is a fact I would like someone to argue with me about.

Er, no. I don't think I will argue with that one

And that story of your trip to Malta is indeed shocking. The only way to subdue a person who is in such hysterics is to give them a good slap across the face - at least that's what the last medic I spoke to said. I can't begin to imagine what that guy would have done if you'd used that tactic

There is a big problem right now with the 'you must not smack your kids or you are evil and will have them taken from you' school of thinking. I do think they are taking things too far. But that's a completely different (heated) debate

[Double Trouble]

The only way to subdue a person who is in such hysterics is to give them a good slap across the face - at least that's what the last medic I spoke to said. I can't begin to imagine what that guy would have done if you'd used that tactic

Oh my God....that policeman would have shot my husband if we had slapped her. It was worst moment of my life, i just couldnt believe what was happening, especailly as all the other english tourists around us just shuffled off and kept there heads down. In the end another policeman came over and told him to calm down. My husband wanted to kill him but we knew the best thing to do was just get out of there ASAP.

Anyway...this is 'off thread'.

Apparently there was another child...a girl this time, on the front page of the Sun today, similar to the kid we are discussing in this thread.

Why is it that we can prosecute people for overfeeding their dogs but we cant for kids? That poor kid connor might be happier at home having his face fed, but I think for his own good, he should have been taken in to care.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Great post Genie

It does take two. And I know of more than one man who became a father 'unwillingly' and stuck by his children anyway

I have a friend who had a brief affair with a girl and had a child. They did take precautions but she got pregnant anyway. They had nothing in common whatsoever and had split up before she even found out she was pregnant, yet he has always supported the mother and his daughter and has always been a part of he life (at least 2 days a week i believe). The big winner her is his daughter, she has grown up with 2 supportive parents even though they were not a couple. She must be a teenager now but she was very well adjusted last time I saw her (hmm 3 years ago maybe ) and i think if you were to ask her if she would throw rocks at cars she'd reply "what? my dad would kill me"

[ElaineB]

I have to agree with Gav (was it gav?) on one thing - some of the children I see causing a fuss in supermarkets (each holding toys or crayons but ignoring them in favour of pulling things off the shelves and then screaming about it) need a good smack. Not a painful or dangerous one. A sharp smack on the bottom never did me any harm (still doesn't ) but it did get the message cross. Small children don't understand reason. They are not old enough to truely understand social rights and wrongs. A (gentle) smack they understand. I learnt right from wrong that way. My parents never hit me hard or did me any damage. But I thank them for their discipline. I wish more parents had the same control over their kids. And before anyone says it - no, I wasn't unhappy as a child. Far from it. Once I learned that "stop it" or "no" meant that if I didn't obey I'd likely get a smack, I just did what they said without much argument - and certainly without screaming or causing a scene in public. This meant they had more time to treat and reward me for good behaviour I had a happy childhood. What's with the kids who hang around outside asda in large groups running sharp objects down people's cars, swearing in loud voices and being a public nuisance!?

They get me really angry. They throw snowballs with rocks in them at passing cars. Do they not understand how dangerous and wrong that is? They could get someone killed! Where are their parents? Who lets a 13 year old girl hang out in car parks after dark? What is with people?!

*wonders off for sherry and shortbread*

Oh crikey, this is a whole different thread! I believe in positive attention as a method of 'discipline'. The number of times that I have seen mother/father/children on the local bus/Doctors/Dentists/Supermarkets completely ignoring their children or only shouting/slapping their children when they have done something wrong is too many times I'm afraid!

Let me give you the usual scenario.......

Child.......Mummy(or Daddy!)......ignored.
.........Mummy...........ignored.........MUMMY.... ......ignored.........child.......starts to whine.........ignored, child starts to whine louder, crys/lies downpulls something off a shelf, digs finger into sibling......parent reacts and whole things sparks off......

On the other hand, a friend of mine who had a child who used to whine/cry for reason at all would automatically get a cuddle, which basically gave the message, hey it's the way to get attention, which is great, so everytime he wanted some attention, he would start to whine.

Now, no parent is perfect and if you are then , but when at the Supermarket, involve the kids - count numbers, talk about colours, textures. When they are a bit older, give them things to get but not eggs! ). Allow them to pay the person at the till and count the change. At the Doctors, or anywhere that the child will get bored, take a book, their favourite toy, travel games. At the airport, I used to wait until the last minute to get into the lounge - we used to count the passengers, or the red/blue/green bags and watch the baggage go onto the carousel.......then watch the planes take off. On the train, bus or whatever, it is so easy to get your children involved, just by describing things that you can see outside! How many children find their first attempts at the word 'dog or shoe' are met with raptuous applause from their parents - you can keep them going for ever with the new word that they have just discovered.

Can you imagine how you would feel if you were taken somewhere and completely ignored, time after time..........wouldn't you feel a bit hacked off? That is why children tend to play up - like us Adults, they want to be stimulated and taken notice of.


Elaine

PS - I should have substituted 'you' for 'one', as this post is not aimed at anyone, just us underperforming parents! Oh yes, if you are the sort of person who does the positive things above, go and have a well earned gin and tonic!

[TurboTomato]

Why is it that we can prosecute people for overfeeding their dogs but we cant for kids?

Unfortunately I've been too nice to you and can't give you rep