WCS to improve your modern jive

[Gus]

Yup .. its probably been said a million times before ... but

I've just got back from one more subjecting myself to the ritual humiliation that is WCS ... and loved it. Its not easy putting yourslef in a class again and screwing up most of the time when you've been used to being the one watch every one else make the mistakes ... but the one thing it has taught me is that its the best way I've seen to teach people connection and tension/compression.

Was doing Chris T's lesson at Revolution Jive. Chris is developing superbly as a teacher and is helping to impart real learning into his students. The value is evident when I went through to the freestyle in the main hall. You could see a clear difference in the perfromace of those who had done the WCS and 'the rest'. Some the the girls are a real delight to dance MJ with, even though they may have being doing MJ a lot less than some of the other ladies there. Is there anyone who has manged to incorporate such lead techniques form WCS into their MJ teaching?

[Jamie]

I incorporate WCS into my MJ all the time, especially the tension/compression and connection thing you mentioned... It really helps.

[StokeBloke]

I love WCS, the whole slotted thing looks so smooth and civilised compared to MJ. It's just a shame I can't do it! Although it's something I have on my to-do list "learn to swing like a west coaster".

Which part of Wales did WCS originate from? I mean Wales is the west coast and I assume that the slotted style was more suited to dancing on mountain toe-paths where there just isn't the room for circular MJ

[JiveLad]

I love WCS, the whole slotted thing looks so smooth and civilised compared to MJ. It's just a shame I can't do it! Although it's something I have on my to-do list "learn to swing like a west coaster".

Which part of Wales did WCS originate from? I mean Wales is the west coast and I assume that the slotted style was more suited to dancing on mountain toe-paths where there just isn't the room for circular MJ

Ditto me (as noted in my m.e.b.)

Some of the videos on youtube for WCS just look fantastic!

As I said in my blog though - if you do learn it, are you going to be limited because there will be fewer opportunities to do it (both from a music and a partner perspective......) compared to MJ?

[SuzyQ]

Yey ... are you a convert??
Looking forward to trying out your new found skills !
Almost an Angel has incorporated some westie style MJ moves in her teaching.
SuzyQ

[Yogi_Bear]

I incorporate WCS into my MJ all the time, especially the tension/compression and connection thing you mentioned... It really helps.

I do try to.....
And it's tipped the scales so far that I only do MJ occasionally as I would much rather be West Coasting....

[Keith]

Was doing Chris T's lesson at Revolution Jive. Chris is developing superbly as a teacher and is helping to impart real learning into his students. The value is evident when I went through to the freestyle in the main hall. You could see a clear difference in the perfromace of those who had done the WCS and 'the rest'. Some the the girls are a real delight to dance MJ with, even though they may have being doing MJ a lot less than some of the other ladies there. Is there anyone who has manged to incorporate such lead techniques form WCS into their MJ teaching?

Hi Gus,
Thanks for this, we are strongly into follow and lead at Revolution Dance, teaching it to all our beginner MJ people and as you noticed although they haven't danced as long, they are much stronger followers and with Chris's WCS classes it helps to emphasise the point to those who try it.
I hope your plug helps him get more dancers, as we only get around 6 brave dancers going each week, but we are not giving up and will fight to get more Northwestern dancers converting or at least trying WCS.
Hope to see you soon,
Keith

[StokeBloke]

Chris's WCS classes it helps to emphasise the point to those who try it.
I hope your plug helps him get more dancers, as we only get around 6 brave dancers going each week, but we are not giving up and will fight to get more Northwestern dancers converting or at least trying WCS.

I have to admit that I was nervous about trying WCS, but the chance to try something different was a real 'pull' to get me to Revolution Dance. Chris' easy going teaching style put me totally at ease. I am looking forward to getting back up to Knutsford in the future for another WCS lesson, and I cannot recommend Chris' WCS lesson enough. His lessons deserve to be packed to the rafters.

[Keith]

I have to admit that I was nervous about trying WCS, but the chance to try something different was a real 'pull' to get me to Revolution Dance. Chris' easy going teaching style put me totally at ease. I am looking forward to getting back up to Knutsford in the future for another WCS lesson, and I cannot recommend Chris' WCS lesson enough. His lessons deserve to be packed to the rafters.

Thank you 'Stokey Blokey' let's hope so. Chris does deserve it

[David Bailey]

but the one thing it has taught me is that its the best way I've seen to teach people connection and tension/compression.

Hmmm... dunno about tension/compression, but AT teaching is heavily-focussed on continuous and crystal-clear connection.

For that matter, it may be a "teacher" thing rather than a "dance form" thing - Franck does workshops on this stuff which are apparently highly-regarded.

[Keith J]

Hi would you be the lead part of the couple who came to via Marilene to JiveBug - Paul Warden & Cats Sunday last workshop? I like to know who is 'teaching'.

I am particulary interested in the development of WCS in the UK. I am often heard advocating its style, smoothness and its positive influence on the world of MJ?
I am lucky enough to be local to Cats Wednesday bash, live near Bisley for the Sundays and virtually all the MJ's I know are 'swing' dancers, as our US cousins put it, so for me its now central to my social dance within MJ circles.

Also not to put to finer point on it various UK top, Aussie, MJ Ceroc dancers are learning & integrating the techniques associated with wcs. In a lot of cases this is being done behind the scenes in private lessons from our home talented instructors and when available the top US pro's who are now regular visitors.
It certainly adds a dimension as the emphasis in WCS intermediate level is about the interpretation of music.
There is no emphasis on patterns, patterns patterns as they have no relationship to the music. Its about dancing to the music, reflect its speed, emotion, highs lows etc.
This is why there is only 4 basic moves which need 'martial arts' type discipline to master.

The journey of learning is extrordinary in wcs.
As to the footwork its tough but over hyped in difficulty. Its a culture leap for most MJs.
If dancing ignores 'your feet & footwork', how can that be complete? Is there any other style in the world that does not teach footwork at basic level? C'mon now!
There is a lot to getting it correct in the first place (ad naseum step step triple step).
However the insight it provides to your body alignment, core balance, weighting, working in partnership is something else.
It leads to the ability of the conversation of dance between Lead and Follow, which is incredible.

We also see a lot of MJ seniors who start WCS, and drop in and out out as they cannot face the 'beginner syndrome' again and it moves them totally out of their comfort zone. This says more about their abilities, determination and attitudes than anything else.
Surely triple stepping is not to much to master?

So for those tempted to come across to the dark side, be under no illusion it is tough at times to start with, & it frazzles the mind. You cannot do enough basics, and just when you think they are good, you go back to the beginning and start again. I honestly think most people take at least 6 months to get reasonable basics (4 moves)in WCS and some, sorry to say, never make it.
It is developed as a competition dance therefore its not going to be that easy is it?

For me its been refreshing, challenging, moments of despair and some highs.

Hope you all try, try, try.

[Keith]

Thanks Ducasi,
Very kind words.
Not sure re Gus's comments, my only guess is that he thought more people had done the WCS in the past?
This doesn't take anything away from Chris though; he is a great person, fab teacher & a real ambassador for WCS
Hope to see you soon,
Keith

[Mr Cool]

WCS adds footwork and a different shape and style to MJ. Dont believe the hype its not that difficult to learn.
A few lessons should give you the basics which is the key to all dance.
WCS is a linear dance and in many ways is simular to MJ using six and eight beat footwork.
It can be danced to a wide wange of music not just slow R&B
I know from dancing with ladies who have done some WCS that it adds a new dimension to many ladies dance style

Not so sure about the men

Most MJVers will improve there dance skills using some footwork

[WittyBird]

but AT teaching is heavily-focussed on continuous and crystal-clear connection.

Sorry was the thread 'WCS to improve your modern jive'

Hmmm didnt think it was 'AT to improve your modern jive'

Maybe DJ should get an infraction for taking a perfectly good thread off topic?

Yes DJ AT might be heavily focused on on yakety yak but it doesn't look as good,demanding or as playful as WCS so that is IMHO now if you carry on with AT in a WCS thread then I will start WCS chat in your little tedious same old same old AT Thread.

:yawn:

[Whitebeard]

Sorry was the thread 'WCS to improve your modern jive'

Hmmm didnt think it was 'AT to improve your modern jive'

Maybe DJ should get an infraction for taking a perfectly good thread off topic?

Yes DJ AT might be heavily focused on on yakety yak but it doesn't look as good,demanding or as playful as WCS so that is IMHO now if you carry on with AT in a WCS thread then I will start WCS chat in your little tedious same old same old AT Thread.

:yawn:

I think my female abbreviated namesake might have a valid point or two there ;-)

(Not that I don't still find the WCS fussy footwork somewhat distracting.)

[Minnie M]

My own opinion is that good MJ teaching will improve your MJ. You don't need to go to the trouble of learning another dance to get good at MJ. You just need to go to a good MJ class to get good at MJ..........The point I'm making is that you really don't need to go the trouble of learning WCS to get better at MJ.......

............The natural attraction of WCS for me is that it would allow me to finally allow me to dance to the R&B muisc I like. .........

a good/experienced MJ dancer should be able to dance to almost anything and definitely R&B (David Barker proves that)

............ As for MJ, its nigh on impossible to teach frame and T&C from stage .........

That is what workshops are for ........... Nigel Anderson has been teaching T & C for years and doing a great job too

[Gus]

: a good/experienced MJ dancer should be able to dance to almost anything and definitely R&B (David Barker proves that)

Not totaly sure, but as most of the R&B is below 110 BPM ... and can be below 100 ... I wouldn't be able to MJ to it and I think a lot of dnacers would also struggle.

Re workshops for T&C, my point entirely.

[Almost an Angel]

As SuzyQ said I have already taken a fair few WCS moves and amended them for MJ timings. The difficulty in doing that is actually the lead and follow techniques that are required for WCS are not often taught in MJ.

I recently taught a move where after having demonstrated it several times and explained how to lead the move the majority of the leads and follows did not have basic tension and compression understanding in their vocabulary to be able to achieve the move. The answer was to run them through one of the tension & compression exercises and then try the move again which improved their understanding.

WCS concepts of technique are most definately transferable to MJ, some MJ'ers already have the understanding of frame, T&C body leads & alignment, weighting. In my experience it is rarely taught in MJ - a lot of this comes from other dance styles and forms which dancers themselves have transferred to MJ.

But it's true - if you want to improve you MJ - concentrate on MJ or variations of MJ.
If you want to learn WCS - learn WCS - just be prepared for having to go back to the basics.

[Mary]

This is a really interesting thread with some valid points made.

For me personally, I have found learning WCS has really improved my MJ, however, it's the MJ that gets in the way of learning and improving my WCS.

Most of the fundamental techniques in any dance style are also applicable to MJ, however if all MJ/Ceroc teachers were to go into the necessary amount of detail to teach these techniques to beginners from up on a stage then it loses it's accessibility to the masses and 95% (or more) would not come back. Although I would like to see the teachers introduce a small amount of technique teaching in the intermediate class. Perhaps choose one of the moves taught to incorporate teaching an aspect of technique (I used to try and do this as a taxi when we used to have an improvers class).

Once people want to come to a workshop this indicates that they are keen to learn and improve. This is the ideal environment to go into quite a bit more detail on technique, and at an early stage. I did have my reservations about this but I have seen at first hand how beginners can benefit from being taught some fairly concentrated specific techniques in the workshop. I was amazed at the transformation without exception in a whole class between the beginning and the end of the workshop. This is from a pretty unique Ceroc teaching couple who, although they don't really do WCS, they do incorporate some of the principles. Their teaching of beginners is pretty amazing

IMO WCS, although a street dance, is probably one of the most difficult to learn, but as the techniques are gradually mastered, and then being able to listen to the music and then hearing the phrases, then the possibilites within the dance become endless.

I also think WCS has some of the coolest patterns, a lot of which are adaptable to MJ.

M

[Groovemeister]

Here's a few workshops for ya in Rushden of all places

UK - Smoooth