Well the problem lies in the fact that if we are asking people to disprove a theory rather than prove it it becomes more difficult. If that person can always find exceptions that "it will appear as rock to you because you think it's made of rock" then it becomes difficult to argue in a way that they can accept.
Of course some new theories are very radical. We are searching for gravitational waves but it's more an exploration. Can we recreate what mass creates?
Well medicine isn't a real science, as I previously mentioned it is as much an art. We just don't understand enough about the body to have any certainty. The body is really complex and we can't account for all the many factors that differ from body to body. We can look at biochemistry but a drug might work to rebalance one person might not work on the slightly different make up of another.
Sure it will (I'm not saying all drugs like that will). It's a bit different but sometimes breast cancer patients are prescribed oestrogen blocking drugs if the tumour if oestrogen receptive as a way to shrink the tumour. Of course that's the disease rather than the patient that is having targeted treatment but I expect people are tested as to the benefit of a given drug.
How's that then?
Yeah, fair enough - but just because it's not completely-understood doesn't make it an art, it just makes it less developed than some other areas, with more experimentation needed than, say, theoretical mathematics.
"Medicine" is based on biology - at least I hope it is, rather than just randomly making stuff up - and I'm sure that biology is a science.
Well I'd say medicine is a lot less applied biology than biology is applied chemistry. I suppose because medicine is often more about treating a specific case. Often there is a choice of operations (or options) a patient can receive and doctors make more judgement calls based on other factors affecting the patient.
I guess an structural engineer doesn't go "we can try slapping on more concrete and wait and see if the bridge stays up" (I hope), that is they'll hopefully do the maths as much as doctors might say "we'll put them on this medication and see how they are doing in 3 weeks".
You should meet the architects I've used (!) for my house work...
Hmmm, well medical treatment arguably has some "artistic" components, in that it good doctors should use judgement, intuition, skill etc. in their diagnoses, based on a lot of different factors, and in that it's difficult sometimes to duplicate that level of skill.
But then, any "dealing with human beings" activity has such an artistic component - in that some people are better at it than others.
And prescriptions are (hopefully) carefully calculated, based on a number of objective factors.
Okay chaps, I had sooooo much planned for today but I’m snowed in and I'm just a teeny weeny bit bored, so I pesent to you ...
A Summary
PussyGalore bravely or naively starts thread declaring that dancing partners heal her backache. Ooh controversial me thinks, with words like “healing energies” and “auric fields”. Is this a red cloak for the Forum sceptics?
PG sympathises with TheT with stuff about stress, emotion, happiness and underlying causes.
TheT - agrees with LMC, “it’s the endorphins”.
PTT - tells us that we automaticlly contract our transverse abdominus. Well, that's nice to know.
PG -“I am used to non believers and find them challenging” ooh we sure hope so. Bring on the resident sceptics.
LMC - gives early warning of the outspoken ones.
JL – tai chi, energy flows and modalities
B1970- apparently no longer a pill popping, manic depressive, sceptic scientist. Glad to hear it, must have been exhausting for you.
PG - complimentary therapist, heals people and animals. Talks about energy, focus, relaxation and vibrations.
BS - joins in. Let the games begin.
L -wisely points out, some people make us feel happy, some don’t
WT158 - auras, endorphins and lymphatic system links.
BS – music, tingles and orgasms. Disappointed in B1970. Mentions charlatans, con artists, fleecing and proof.
AS – calls BS narrow minded. Ouch!
MH – enters the debate with comments on bent wrists, leaking energy and bad Feng Shui.
B1970 - bio chemical reactions, physical processes, magnetic bracelets, power lines, forum entitlement, mysticism, the unexplainable, auras, God, chi, white holes, physicists and mathematicians.
LMC – corrects SC264’s spelling. Ouch! Chats about neural pathway, microscopy, microbiology, acupuncture, neural pathways/nerve cells and the electrical/hormonal signals. By the way, what is a free dictionary and who is Occam and what does his razor have to do with this?
BS – Vampires, flat planet and Columbus, oh and a heartfelt plea for forumites to quit with the nonsense. (Good luck with that one Barry.)
BS – mega post re:- spoon benders, mediums, psychics, Kirlian photography, pseudoscience, naked emporers, scoffing, narrow mindedness, crackpots, evidence, trickery, surgeons, chickens, ducks and Hamlet.
SK – compares acupuncture with reflexology and homeopathy.
AS – challenges BS (oooh).
B1970 – challenges BS (oooh). Post concludes with an excellent trucking last line which would make a great sig. Can I borrow it?
BS – self defence with dilemmas, investigation and knowledge.
SC264 – shares details of his alternative therapy appointments. Good luck next Friday!
BS – neg repped for enjoying debate!
B1970 – requests neg rep, confesses, apologises and admits to enjoying the debate.
LL – joins the debate with a dj’s view of the music induced orgasm.
A – admits to finding some of BS’s posts “entertaining and/or interesting”
BS – on Gillian Keith, Channel 4, poo and nutrition.
LL – health, success, failure and choice.
SC264 – responds on behalf of LL, with reference to acupuncture, reflexology, homeopathy, kinesiology and post dating. Ooh, so much info.
KT – supports BS’s opinion “at least in principle” anyway. Suggests that medicine is an art(?)
BS – flushing and floating poo, honest builders and complementary therapists.
PTT – science, proof, history, ridicule and rubbish.
BS – mega post dedicated to acupuncture and auras.
CJ – in praise of Bear Bile
MH – mentions “Goedel's Incompleteness Theorem” (I’m off to look this one up)
SK – Shaolin Monks (someone else mentioned them) astrology, homeopathy and crop circles.
SC264 – excellent two word summary of previous posts.
KT – says "5 out of 1000 people believe they have been 'taken' by aliens". Where did this come from?
AMcG – arrives with hope. Coming from the Pharmaceutical industry he prescribes “cake, chocolate and dancing” Discussion over?
KT – “Scientists are often an egotistical bunch”. Ouch! Oh and the truth about cheese.
B1970 – whopping great long post detailing his personal views, what he doesn’t believe, what he was trying to say, what he cannot dismiss and pink stones.
SC264 – asks BS to explain. Really! I thought he was constantly explaining something or other.
BS – admits “I can't force anyone to think like me”. Requests the makers of claims to prove them.
G – Gav's personal Bell’s Palsy experience.
B1970 – webcams, freezers, placebos and cancer.
SC264 – offers “scientific approach to the acupuncture debate” has no intention of trying to convince BS which is probably just as well…
C – like me, Caro is confused by KT's cheese references.
DJ – late arrival, begins the search for Ash and PG, quotes an alarming review about soldiers and goats.
G – amuses us with culinary suggestions for goats in government. Certainly made me chuckle anyway.
BS – no hope vs false hope, ham/bacon vs meridians/chi, fancy cats vs grinning dogs.
KT – explains cheese and says “Well medicine isn't a real science” Woah there KT.
SC264 – cyanide and Rasputin. (I’m off to look that one up too.)
DJ – “Medicine" is based on biology - … - and I'm sure that biology is a science.” Phew thank goodness for that, sanity at last.
KT – compares bridge repairs with human health and medication. Now I'm a little bit worried.
DJ – mentions the careful calculation of medication. Where are the forum’s pharmaceutical representatives when we need them?
LL and SC264 – are easily distracted by the thought of vacuum cleaners. (Stay on topic guys.)
I’m off to thank a few forumites now because reading this thread has given me so much pleasure.
I also live in hope that it doesn’t snow again... ever
Play fair, that isn't what you said. You wrote about one person rather than another, not a susceptible illness rather than a non-susceptible one.
I would have thought that a drug that did not have fairly predictable effects was not going to show up as having the statistical benefits in double-blind testing that would be required.
I would have quoted that answer, but I thought this might be nicer for your feelings of grandeur (see? I'm nice! I didn't use the d-word that you used )
Quick example of that sort of drug - your bog standard general anaesthetic. Which puts most people to sleep quite happily. Some wake up with no side-effects. Occasionally people don't respond properly to it. Potential side effects do include headache, nausea, tiredness / confusion and death (incredibly rare, but it happens)
It is an accepted fact that it is impossible to predict with exactitude the effects of a drug on a particular person. The trials are used to establish (amongst other things) that the drug works as expected on a statistically high enough proportion of patients, with a sufficiently low (statisically speaking) incidence of adverse effects.
In essence, what KT describes can be applied to most, if not all, drugs. So - 'fairly predictable', yes. But that's about as good as it gets, and it's a long looooong way from being completely predictable in every case.
Which brings us back to Rasputin....
Hi to all Forum participants. I came back from Switzerland and to my surprise found lots of comments on the subject healing and dancing. Some are interesting. It seems like proof of this energy is what most people want. All I can say having given healing sessions to many people with various complaints improved greatly or completely. Besides other Therapies I have been practising it for many years and am very busy with it. If it were not making them better I would not practice it and think I would not have many clients. It gives me great pleasure when people leave without pain feeling good etc. Read some of my testimonials on my website. <o:p></o:p>
Anyway I do not have the urge to proof anything. It’s always best to have an open mind, try these things and then comment.
Medicine isn't a science because it doesn't generate falsifiable theories.
(If you disagree, you get to name a theory of medicine, and suggest a practical experiment that would falsify it)
[QUOTE=CeeCee;339348]Okay chaps, I had sooooo much planned for today but I’m snowed in and I'm just a teeny weeny bit bored, so I pesent to you ...
A Summary
PussyGalore bravely or naively starts thread declaring that dancing partners heal her backache. Ooh controversial me thinks, with words like “healing energies” and “auric fields”. Is this a red cloak for the Forum sceptics?
PG sympathises with TheT with stuff about stress, emotion, happiness and underlying causes.
TheT - agrees with LMC, “it’s the endorphins”.
[BS – music, tingles and orgasms. Disappointed in B1970. Mentions charlatans, con artists, fleecing and proof.
LL and SC264 – are easily distracted by the thought of vacuum cleaners. (Stay on topic guys.)
CC goes off to thank the few forumites who ever gave her pleasure.
Fair enough. It seems to me that this sort of restricted variability doesn't really meet the requirements of killingtime's comment, but if that was all that was intended, we aren't in conflict.
...lover of the Russian queen, it was a shame how he carried onWhich brings us back to (rah rah) Rasputin....
erm...that it's possible to transplant an organ?
that ulcers are caused by a micro-organism rather than stress?
that analgesics can lower the risk of heart attack?
that schizophrenia can be ameliorated by a pre-frontal lobotomy?
that MMR innoculations cause IBS and autism?
...need any more?
You're still on my ignore list Barry, but I happened to "view post" on this one:
You missed out a crucial step:
What experiment would you perform that could potentially falsify the so-called "theory" that it is possible to transplant an organ?Originally Posted by Me
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