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Thread: Should the ladies step on every beat?

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    Should the ladies step on every beat?

    Nigel Anderson and I are having a debate at the moment. We've been debating 'what is Modern Jive' for years and this is a recent addition to our thinking. I think we agree with each other. Basically, with a few exceptions, we both think the lady should step on every beat or at least step in place on every beat. This means she would have 4 weight changes for every bar.

    Consider the first move, the lady needs to turn out on beat 5. Here is the sequence of events as I see them;

    Beat 1 - Lady steps back right and places her weight on that foot.
    Beat 2 - Lady steps back with her unweighted left foot to bring her left foot alongside her right and transfers her weight to that foot (the lady could step in place with her left foot instead of taking it back to join her right)
    Beat 3 - Lady steps forward with her undweighted right foot and places that foot next to the guy's right foot and transfers her weight to it.
    Beat 4 - Lady steps forward with her undweighted left foot to bring it alongside her right foot and transfers her weight to it.
    Beat 5 - Lady pivots on weighted left foot as she steps back with her weight to that foot.
    Beat 6 - Lady steps forward with her unweighted left foot to get in front of the guy and transfers her weight to that foot.
    Beat 7 - Lady steps forward with her udweighted right foot and transfers her weight to it.
    Beat 8 - Lady steps forward with her unweighted left foot as she pivots on her right foot she tranfers her weight to her left foot.

    The returns-on the spot are where it changes as these take 2 beats and this is where I'm less sure of exactly what's going on and what should be going on. Nina likes to step step her turns and returns pivoting through 180 degrees on each foot. Others like to pivot on one foot for the whole 360 degrees. So my technical question are; What do people currently do, should the ladies be transferring their weight on every beat and what do they think is right?

    On this matter I'm not trying to sell any particular idea, I'm asking the experts of the forum what they think.

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    Re: Should the ladies step on every beat?

    I think different people are going to have different ideas about what Modern Jive is. Personally I think it's a mixture of styles and influences from other forms of dancing based around a rock n' roll foundation.

    People dance in different styles and ways, so therefore there can not be a right or wrong way of doing things (with a few small exceptions ie, gripping etc).

    My opinion is that the follow should not have to step or weight shift on every beat at all. There should be times for pauses etc. Of course it all depends on style etc.

    Taking your first move as an example and another thread about a rhonda the first move could be done with a rhonda over two /three beats.

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    Re: Should the ladies step on every beat?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    rhonda
    I've never heard of this, it's probably Welsh

    On the subject of what MJ is. Most of us can agree what it isn't and we can agree what has influenced it. Agreeing what it is - much harder.
    Last edited by Andy McGregor; 21st-January-2007 at 07:16 PM.

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    Re: Should the ladies step on every beat?

    Been listening to beach boys.

    I agree that it's hard to agree what it is. I would just say it's a mixture of dance styles that is progressive and can be done to almost any music.

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    Re: Should the ladies step on every beat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I'm asking the experts of the forum what they think.
    I ask for an expert opinion and who do I hear from?

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    Re: Should the ladies step on every beat?

    Sorry Andy. Though anyones help would be expert help in your case.

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    Re: Should the ladies step on every beat?

    It's interesting that the the member "MJ in the USA" calls the dance he teaches "FreeStep".

    A good term I'd suggest, as MJ has grown out of its "Jive" roots, and "Free Step" is a much better description for what defines our dance.

    As such, ladies, and gentlemen, are at perfect liberty to take as many steps as they wish during each beat – subject of course to what the music and their partner are doing.

    All in my humble opinion.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

  8. #8
    purplehyacinth
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    Re: Should the ladies step on every beat?

    OK, I'll preface this remark by admitting that I'm a relative newbie, so you can all tell me that I've got it wrong.....

    I would say that it depends
    a) on the music and
    b) on what the person with whom the lady is dancing is doing.

    Generally b) takes precedence over a) IMHO, as if the leader is dancing in, say, a grounded style, then even if it is a fairly bouncy track, the follower should be trying to match what her partner is doing (ie adopting a grounded style rather than dancing in a bouncy style).

    One of the hardest things I find in ceroc is where a track with a "traditional" jive beat is being played, as my feet then want to do "proper" jive footwork (due to having learnt a very small bit of jive several years ago) - which does entail stepping on every beat. However, my partner generally isn't doing "proper" jive footwork, and is NOT stepping on every beat, so I have to try to switch off the part of my brain which is conditioned to telling my feet to do the jive footwork, so that I am vaguely matching what my partner is doing.

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    Re: Should the ladies step on every beat?

    Quote Originally Posted by purpleheather View Post
    OK, I'll preface this remark by admitting that I'm a relative newbie, so you can all tell me that I've got it wrong.....
    Your opinions will never be seen as wrong by the majority of people in here. Everyones opinion is valid. There are only a select few that will tell you otherwise.

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    Re: Should the ladies step on every beat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I ask for an expert opinion and who do I hear from?
    Is there no beginning to the man's breadth of knowledge?

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    Re: Should the ladies step on every beat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post



    Beat 1 - Lady steps back right and places her weight on that foot.
    Beat 2 - Lady steps back with her unweighted left foot to bring her left foot alongside her right and transfers her weight to that foot (the lady could step in place with her left foot instead of taking it back to join her right)
    Beat 3 - Lady steps forward with her undweighted right foot and places that foot next to the guy's right foot and transfers her weight to it.
    Beat 4 - Lady steps forward with her undweighted left foot to bring it alongside her right foot and transfers her weight to it.
    Beat 5 - Lady pivots on weighted left foot as she steps back with her weight to that foot.
    Beat 6 - Lady steps forward with her unweighted left foot to get in front of the guy and transfers her weight to that foot.
    Beat 7 - Lady steps forward with her udweighted right foot and transfers her weight to it.
    Beat 8 - Lady steps forward with her unweighted left foot as she pivots on her right foot she tranfers her weight to her left foot.
    This sounds like the commentary to the final of the 'Twister' World Championships.

    Way to technical for me.

    I know, nothing to contribute as usual

    Carry on folks....

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    Re: Should the ladies step on every beat?

    Surely they don't come a lot more 'expert' than your Mr Anderson?

    Personally.... I don't really mind what the lady does in terms of stepping / weight transfers etc, so long as it's not messing up her follow. It's probably easiest if a follower does a step per beat... but it'd also be a bit dull for the more advanced followers if they were to restrict themselves to that. Besides - in a nice connected dance, I'll often vary the timing quite a bit, as will a lot of the advanced leads - so a step per beat becomes something of a nonsense at that point.

    As far as I'm concerned, 'standard' MJ has no footwork, and we're free to add ... whatever feels right when we're dancing - leaders and followers both.

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    Registered User spindr's Avatar
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    Re: Should the ladies step on every beat?

    Oooh goody, Andy's invented "Modern Merengue"

    SpinDr

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    Re: Should the ladies step on every beat?

    I'm not entirely sure I've understood correctly, but some of the lefts and rights seem incorrect to me (I could be wrong!) ... anyway that isn't the real question.

    I don't think that it is important to step on every beat ... I will sometimes pause, triple or slide as the music suggests ... but then I've always been a rebel

    SuzyQ

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    Re: Should the ladies step on every beat?

    I dance regularly with two really good followers, Andy knows one of them (I'm lnot sure if it's MJ that they dance so I won't call it that) they mark every beat & I'm sure that has something to do with how good they are

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    Re: Should the ladies step on every beat?

    Quote Originally Posted by spindr View Post
    Oooh goody, Andy's invented "Modern Merengue"

    SpinDr


    I O U rep
    Last edited by straycat; 22nd-January-2007 at 12:37 AM.

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    Re: Should the ladies step on every beat?

    What about during drops and aerials?

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    Re: Should the ladies step on every beat?

    #include obligatory random-intermediate disclaimer.

    Some folks teach modern jives that have marching footwork (eg Aussie Ceroc). Some folks teach modern jives that have other footwork (eg Leroc, JazzJive). Some folks teach modern jives where footwork is deliberately never mentioned (eg UK Ceroc). So any inclusive definition of MJ has to include all these things.

    That said, it seems that the most common footwork pattern amongst MJ followers is marching footwork. Should Modern Jive ever become standardised, that's what I would expect the standard to be. Marching footwork ties in with "mambo" and "walking" variations, with "outside leg back" on first moves and sways, and with the slower music played at MJ venues.

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    Re: Should the ladies step on every beat?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    Your opinions will never be seen as wrong by the majority of people in here. Everyones opinion is valid. There are only a select few that will tell you otherwise.
    So, if your opinion is that the moon is made of green cheese and puppy dogs tails, then it is valid for most people here?

    Please note my signature!

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    Re: Should the ladies step on every beat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    What about during drops and aerials?
    MJ is a social dance. Once you start doing those moves on a busy dance floor you start getting antisocial.

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