View Poll Results: Should the Saddam execution footage have been shown on British television?

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Thread: Should the Saddam execution footage have been shown on British television?

  1. #61
    Registered User Daydreaming Diva's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Saddam execution footage have been shown on British television?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    I think for many people that sort of shock changes attitudes, and maybe that might be beneficial to the country. It's so much easier to accept (or to resign yourself to) death and dismemberment of young soldiers if you never have to watch it.
    I agree that sometimes it is important for us to see unpleasant and uncomfortable images on the TV - thinking about the starving children in Africa for instance. When we hear stories about famines in Africa it doesn't have half the impact as do the pictures of starving children flashing into our living rooms.

    I remember when in the 80s, as a young mother myself, I saw pictures of some famine or other (sorry - hopeless at history ) and young children dying of starvation and the look on their poor mother's faces as they looked on helplessly - I just wept and wept. These images often spring to my mind and are still painful to me today, even though I can't remember the historical facts surrounding them. I think it was during the Feed the World campaign!

  2. #62
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    Re: Should the Saddam execution footage have been shown on British television?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baruch View Post
    However, what is so bad about showing dead bodies anyway? OK , a fairly strong case could be made for not showing mutilated bodies, but apart from that I don't see why dead bodies shouldn't be shown. After all, death is an inevitable part of life, and it is all around us every day. I really don't understand why we in the West are so insulated from the reality of death.
    As I already explained, my opinion is that this is disrespecful to the dead(s) in question. I know I wouldn't like my dead body to be shown on TV, and I prefer being conservative and make the same assumption about others (which, of couse, could be a totally wrong assumption but that'll remain my opinion anyway).

    I have seen enough dead people myself, from family members to Cameroonians being burnt on a tyre, not to need any more to grasp the concept of death.
    And I'm assuming (again I could be wrong) that anybody above the age of 12 understand that concept too, whereas they have seen bodies or not.

    So as you can see this has nothing to do with being insulated from the reality of death, I would just like it to be shown in a way that is respectul for the deads. (yes I am aware that other cultures might have a different stance on what is being (un)respectul for the deads).

    Quote Originally Posted by Baruch View Post
    ... pictures of full body bags lined up in a row.
    I have already said I have nothing against that, hope that the reiteration of my point was clearer
    Last edited by Caro; 3rd-January-2007 at 09:42 PM.

  3. #63
    Registered User Baruch's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Saddam execution footage have been shown on British television?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    As I already explained, my opinion is that this is disrespecful to the dead(s) in question. I know I wouldn't like my dead body to be shown on TV, and I prefer being conservative and make the same assumption about others (which, of couse, could be a totally wrong assumption but that'll remain my opinion anyway).
    OK, I can understand that point, and agree with it to some extent, but I don't think it should be an absolute value, especially when news reporting is concerned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    I have seen enough dead people myself, from family members to Cameroonians being burnt on a tyre, not to need any more to grasp the concept of death.
    And I'm assuming (again I could be wrong) that anybody above the age of 12 understand that concept too, whereas they have seen bodies or not.
    I don't think that people who haven't actually experienced the death of someone they know can really understand it. Knowing about it and understanding it are two different things. I know that from my own subjective experience, I didn't really understand death and bereavement until my father died. When you have actually seen death it suddenly becomes real to you, whereas before it is just something that you know about, but isn't "real".

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    So as you can see this has nothing to do with being insulated from the reality of death
    For you this is the case, but I don't think the same can be said of everybody who is against the death penalty or the portrayal of dead bodies on TV.

  4. #64
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    Re: Should the Saddam execution footage have been shown on British television?

    remembering what this B*****d did i still feel that his execution should of been done with some dignity, surely we all deserve that hay. i understand that within different cultures laws and punishments vary and i respect this although this is not to say it is proactive punishment to kill those who kill. what does this teach anyone??. The world is a scary place as it is and too much i feel is shown to us and our growing youngsters... it's very controversial i guess this subject and i am not sure whether there is a right or wrong answer to it.

  5. #65
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    Re: Should the Saddam execution footage have been shown on British television?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baruch View Post
    OK, I can understand that point, and agree with it to some extent, but I don't think it should be an absolute value, especially when news reporting is concerned.
    Not withstanding my point, I think there could be an exception for soldiers. You could say that it's 'part of the deal' that they will be exposed to war and battles, they know they have a non negligible chance of dying in service, and as such you could argue that they should be prepared for their image (whether alive or dead) to be broadcasted on TV as part of a news report.

    Other than that... I remember a magazine in which there was that almost A3 picture of a mutilated body from a bomb attack, although the face was hidden you could see the hair, some clothes, and enough to make it recognizable to family and friends. Sadly it's not the dismembered body that shoked me (we are too used to seeing such images) but the fact that this overweight, blond lady who was somebody's wife, mum, or friend, was exposed in half her nudity (clothes had ripped apart) in the most ignominious way to the sight of all. And was there to stay on this sheet of paper for ever.
    Sadly, I still remember it very vividly.

    Which begs the question, do you then make a difference depending on the media that is used? Is it more acceptable to show deads in a rapid flash on TV rather than on a picture in a magazine?


    Quote Originally Posted by Baruch View Post
    I don't think that people who haven't actually experienced the death of someone they know can really understand it. Knowing about it and understanding it are two different things. I know that from my own subjective experience, I didn't really understand death and bereavement until my father died. When you have actually seen death it suddenly becomes real to you, whereas before it is just something that you know about, but isn't "real".
    fair enough, when I said evebody above the age of 12, I was implying that in that period of time most people will have been confronted with death in a way or another.

  6. #66
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    Re: Should the Saddam execution footage have been shown on British television?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    I know I wouldn't like my dead body to be shown on TV
    How would you do that, then? 'Not like' your dead body being on TV?

  7. #67
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    Re: Should the Saddam execution footage have been shown on British television?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    I have seen enough dead people myself, from family members to Cameroonians being burnt on a tyre, not to need any more to grasp the concept of death.
    No doubt an excellent reason why you might wish to change channels, but isn't really helpful in deciding whether such things should be broadcast on TV.
    And I'm assuming (again I could be wrong) that anybody above the age of 12 understand that concept too, whereas they have seen bodies or not.
    To paraphrase, when you make an assumption, you make an ass out of u and umption. (Sorry, but it was on again the other night and the line always makes me chuckle.)
    So as you can see this has nothing to do with being insulated from the reality of death, I would just like it to be shown in a way that is respectul for the deads. (yes I am aware that other cultures might have a different stance on what is being (un)respectul for the deads).
    I'm not being personal about this Caro, but I'm getting sick and tired of this constant harping we get EVERYWHERE about respect. 'Respect' for me is reserved for the feeling and attitude you have towards people and things who have earned the right to esteem and admiration. Everything else is just hogwash. Why should I e.g. 'respect' someone's choices? In that situation it just means 'don't quarrel with', and if you re-word a hypothetical sentence you get "You must not quarrel with my choice to buy meat only of animals killed without first being stunned." When put like that it is easy to see why the alternative - "You must respect my choice to buy meat only of animals killed without first being stunned" is bogus.

    I have no idea what is 'disrespectful' about showing a dead body on a television programme.

  8. #68
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    Re: Should the Saddam execution footage have been shown on British television?

    Quote Originally Posted by me View Post
    I wouldn't be too happy to know (forget about how ) that my dead body was shown on TV.
    Quote Originally Posted by me again View Post
    I know I wouldn't like my dead body to be shown on TV
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    How would you do that, then? 'Not like' your dead body being on TV?
    yeah I know... silly, hey? Yet I'm sure it does make sense for most people... Why do we care (in anticipation that is) about our body when we're dead? Or is it the memory of us alive that we cherish so much? Or the memory others might have of us ?

    You would think that people who don't believe in God or in religious ceremonies to accompany the deads (I'm one of them) wouldn't care so much about what happens to their body. Personally buried or burnt I don't care (well as long as I'm dead indeed) but having a picture of my dismembered body published in a magazine...

    Now that's weird thoughts an early morning

  9. #69
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    Re: Should the Saddam execution footage have been shown on British television?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post

    I'm not being personal about this Caro, but I'm getting sick and tired of this constant harping we get EVERYWHERE about respect. 'Respect' for me is reserved for the feeling and attitude you have towards people and things who have earned the right to esteem and admiration. Everything else is just hogwash. Why should I e.g. 'respect' someone's choices? In that situation it just means 'don't quarrel with', and if you re-word a hypothetical sentence you get "You must not quarrel with my choice to buy meat only of animals killed without first being stunned." When put like that it is easy to see why the alternative - "You must respect my choice to buy meat only of animals killed without first being stunned" is bogus.

    I have no idea what is 'disrespectful' about showing a dead body on a television programme.
    I trust you don't need me to point out how valid it is to compare respect to the deads and respect to your choices in food.

    People who have made their education in that field could explain it much better than me, but the consciousness of death and what we do with the deads is usually considered as a major step towards making us what we are, humans (as in homo sapiens), and differenciating us from what we consider less evolved forms of life like animals (although some other animals like elephants seem to understand the concepts of death and respect to their dead peers).

    So basically anything that we do with the deads, whether we bury them, leave them on a mountain for birds to eat them, or parade them on TV, touches a sensitive chord in us. Which I have called 'respect for the dead' but other formulations might be more appropriate.

    I'm not saying that there aren't respectful ways of showing the deads on TV, in fact there probably are, but showing somebody being executed or having just being executed is, IMO, not one of them. Nor is what we usually see on news reports.

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    Re: Should the Saddam execution footage have been shown on British television?

    Upon hearing the news of saddams execution this morning. Elton john has been quick to record a memorial song for the former iraqi dictator.

    The single....Dangle in the Wind......will be out on thursday.

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    Re: Should the Saddam execution footage have been shown on British television?

    I phoned Saddam to wish him a happy new year, but he just hung up.

  12. #72
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    Re: Should the Saddam execution footage have been shown on British television?

    Incidentally, it seems that Bush had wished that 'the proceedings [of the execution] had gone on in a more dignified way." How ironic...

    I heard in the news this morning that he wanted to launch an investigation into who released the audio band of the execution... so it's ok to execute someone, ok to watch him die, but poor little Bush is shocked at hearing him die (and been joked at, I must add, may be that was the bit that upset him?) ?

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    Re: Should the Saddam execution footage have been shown on British television?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    Incidentally, it seems that Bush had wished that 'the proceedings [of the execution] had gone on in a more dignified way." How ironic...
    Apparently, when Saddam was captured 3 years ago he had his pistol removed and it was sent to Bush and he now keeps it on his desk as a souvenir.

    I was wondering if he was considering having Saddams beard made in to some kind of jumper or maybe even having his head mounted for the wall in the White House.

  14. #74
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    Re: Should the Saddam execution footage have been shown on British television?

    i don tthink people were given the option if they wanted to see the pics or not - was all over front pages and news - and internet home pages - you would have to have hidden in a cupboard not 2 have seen anything. but i dont think the death videos should be shown to anyone.

    and my 2p worth is that no one has the right to take another persons life, lifes too precious and miraculous.

  15. #75
    Registered User J-J's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Saddam execution footage have been shown on British television?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    I was wondering if he was considering having Saddams beard made in to some kind of jumper or maybe even having his head mounted for the wall in the White House.

  16. #76
    Registered User Baruch's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Saddam execution footage have been shown on British television?

    Quote Originally Posted by J-J View Post
    i don tthink people were given the option if they wanted to see the pics or not - was all over front pages and news - and internet home pages - you would have to have hidden in a cupboard not 2 have seen anything. but i dont think the death videos should be shown to anyone.
    The death videos were not shown on TV or in the papers. The internet is a different matter, but there you have a choice whether to view them or not.

    Even if you regard the pre-hanging pictures shown on TV as distressing, there was a way to avoid them. It was pretty much common knowledge that Saddam was going to be executed on that day, so it was pretty clear that pictures were going to be all over the news. People who really didn't want to see those pictures could simply have switched off their TV sets.

    Regarding the front pages of the newspapers, all they showed was a man with a rope around his neck looking sombre. If they had shown that man hanging from the rope a few minutes later there would be cause for complaint, but he was very much alive in those pictures. If it's the fact that the man was killed shortly afterwards that offends, that knowledge would be there whether or not the picture was printed.

  17. #77
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    Re: Should the Saddam execution footage have been shown on British television?

    Although I voted "no" in the poll, it's interesting to see a few people reconsider their opinions on the death penalty, based presumably on the pictures and footage seen in the media. Perhaps there was some value in their exposure after all...
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

  18. #78
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    Re: Should the Saddam execution footage have been shown on British television?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tortoise View Post
    remembering what this B*****d did i still feel that his execution should of been done with some dignity, surely we all deserve that
    I'm not sure what he deserves even comes into it - it's what "we" deserve. I think this comment, found elsewhere puts it very well (emphasis mine):
    The reason that the dignity of the prisoner should be preserved is not for the prisoner's sake. It is so that the actions of the state are clearly contrasted with the actions of the condemned.
    Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be that much contrast between Saddam and his executioners:
    Quote from Glenn Greenwald
    It really is striking, and a potent sign of just how absurd is our ongoing occupation, that the "Iraqi Government" which we are fighting to empower could not even conduct this execution with a pretense of legality or concern for civilized norms -- the executioners were not wearing uniforms but leather jackets and murderers' masks, conducting themselves not as disciplined law enforcement officers but as what they are (death squad members and sectarian street thugs).
    Further, and to the great embarrassment of the allies:
    And the most revealing, and most disturbing, detail is that Saddam's executioners -- in between playground insults spat at a tied-up Saddam -- chanted their religious-like allegiance to Moktada Al Sadr, the Shiite militia leader whom we are told is the Great Enemy of the U.S., the One We Now Must Kill. This noble and just event for which we are responsible was carried out by a brutal, murderous, lawless militia.

  19. #79
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    Re: Should the Saddam execution footage have been shown on British television?

    I have not watched the footage, I don’t want too

    But I am very please I live in a society were, if I so choose, I can

    One really positive thing about this poll, only one “Not sure “

  20. #80
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    Re: Should the Saddam execution footage have been shown on British television?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    Quote:
    The reason that the dignity of the prisoner should be preserved is not for the prisoner's sake. It is so that the actions of the state are clearly contrasted with the actions of the condemned.
    Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be that much contrast between Saddam and his executioners:
    Seems like a bit of a forlorn hope; executions are hardly ever dignified affairs. Look at the ghastly American events which are arranged a lot like entertainment; all that's missing is long gloves and opera glasses.

    I think what most people recoil from is the deliberation of the executions; the last meal, the visit from the chaplain, the last-night vigil, the procession to the execution chamber - {shudder}

    I don't have much in the way of strong feelings about the morality or ethics of the way Saddam was executed; there's no doubt that it was disastrous from a political point of view, both for Iraqi Shi'ites and for the US.
    Last edited by Barry Shnikov; 9th-January-2007 at 10:59 AM. Reason: repetition, hesitation and deviation

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