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Thread: Negative rep - is it useful?

  1. #101
    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: Negative rep - is it useful?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    OK, there seems to be a bit of a pattern emerging here.

    Most of the people defending the -ve rep system are more long-standing members, and most of the ones attacking it are newer members. It's an extremely small sample of course, but would it be reasonable to assume that negative rep comments are seen more, well, negatively, by newer members?
    OK, as Gus isn't here, let me be Devil's advocate here:

    Most of the people defending the -ve rep system are people who have shown themselves to be valuable members of this forum, and most of the ones attacking it, haven't (IMHO). It's an extremely small sample of course, but would it be reasonable to assume that negative rep comments are seen more, well, negatively, by people whose posts receive more of them?

    I'd estimate that for every post I give negative rep for, there are at least 20 posts where I think the poster is an idiot, or offensive, but not so far over the line that I would neg-rep them. I also give at least 10 times as much +ve rep as -ve. So if the people complaining have stacked up as much -ve rep, (and so little positive rep), I have to wonder what the reason is.

    I don't take the system terribly seriously, but someone makes 900 posts and gets so little rep for it, it does give an inkling as to how their posts are received.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface
    What about being able to view others rep comments?
    The people thinking "Hey, no-one would neg-rep me if they had to do it publicly" might want to reflect upon that 20:1 ratio I mentioned. For example (and I hope this isn't seen as a personal attack given your wish for people to be 'public'), there are several of your posts where although I wouldn't neg-rep you myself, I would certainly defend anyone else who did so.

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    Re: Negative rep - is it useful?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    OK, as Gus isn't here, let me be Devil's advocate here:

    Most of the people defending the -ve rep system are people who have shown themselves to be valuable members of this forum, and most of the ones attacking it, haven't (IMHO). It's an extremely small sample of course, but would it be reasonable to assume that negative rep comments are seen more, well, negatively, by people whose posts receive more of them?

    I'd estimate that for every post I give negative rep for, there are at least 20 posts where I think the poster is an idiot, or offensive, but not so far over the line that I would neg-rep them. I also give at least 10 times as much +ve rep as -ve. So if the people complaining have stacked up as much -ve rep, (and so little positive rep), I have to wonder what the reason is.

    I don't take the system terribly seriously, but someone makes 900 posts and gets so little rep for it, it does give an inkling as to how their posts are received.

    The people thinking "Hey, no-one would neg-rep me if they had to do it publicly" might want to reflect upon that 20:1 ratio I mentioned. For example (and I hope this isn't seen as a personal attack given your wish for people to be 'public'), there are several of your posts where although I wouldn't neg-rep you myself, I would certainly defend anyone else who did so.
    All Im saying is That there is possibly a better system. What your saying about my posts is fine because that is your opinion. i have received two neg reps. Was a little upset by the first one but now they don't bother me.

    I think my posts do annoy a certain few because I like to try and stick up for people and because if I feel something is wrong, i will say so. Also people don't seem to have the ability to read my posts properly

    To get over the "Hey, no-one would neg-rep me if they had to do it publicly" thing, I said that it would not show up if you viewed someone elses reps and the repper didn't sign it!!!

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    Re: Negative rep - is it useful?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Or is this a wrong assumption? Would any long-standing members like to attack the -ve rep system? Would any newbies like to defend it?
    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    Most of the people defending the -ve rep system are people who have shown themselves to be valuable members of this forum, and most of the ones attacking it, haven't (IMHO).
    I'm a newbie and I think the rep system is fine as it is. The problem is with the people that take it too seriously.

  4. #104
    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: Negative rep - is it useful?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    To get over the "Hey, no-one would neg-rep me if they had to do it publicly" thing, I said that it would not show up if you viewed someone elses reps and the repper didn't sign it!!!
    So you're advocating anonymous -ve reps? Not many will agree with you there, I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav
    The problem is with the people that take it too seriously.
    In general, my opinion of people's "worth" on the forum is entirely personal, based on how I feel about their posts. Personally, I'd probably put DavidB, DavidJames and Trampy as my top 3 posters. What I do do is use the rep system to estimate how my rating differs from the general consensus. In particular, if I think a particular poster is an idiot, I find it useful to know if their rep is 20 or 2000. In the latter case, I can assume they must have some redeeming qualities (even if I can't see them). Of course, the rep/post ratio is a generally a more useful measure than the plain rep.

    This analysis is, of course, somewhat dubious, given my experience is that you get a lot more rep for a fancy picture or avatar than any amount of dance discussion. (Though maybe that should be a hint to me about my dance expertise...)

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    Re: Negative rep - is it useful?

    but then you have the people who have done 100 posts and have 200 odd rep. How's that worked?

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    Registered User LMC's Avatar
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    Re: Negative rep - is it useful?

    They talk far less crap than the rest of us.

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    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: Negative rep - is it useful?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    but then you have the people who have done 100 posts and have 200 odd rep. How's that worked?
    Generally they:

    (a) Make very good, informative posts.
    (b) Don't post to the frivolous threads, or get involved in the long arguments.

    (a) is clearly to be encouraged. (b) doesn't matter so much, so it's possibly a bit "unfair" that it affects the ratio.

    But in general, I've found anyone with a rep:posts ratio over 1 is worth paying attention to.

    Edit: LMC said it shorter...

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    Re: Negative rep - is it useful?

    But what fun would the forum be then?

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    Re: Negative rep - is it useful?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    But in general, I've found anyone with a rep:posts ratio over 1 is worth paying attention to.


    And those close to it

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    Re: Negative rep - is it useful?

    I don't know that I would wish to get rid of the rep system altogether. I have really enjoyed reading through some of the lovely comments people leave. The points don't really matter, but the comments are nice.

    The negative rep system can be constructive if it is used wisely. Unfortunately it isn't always, from what I have heard. It is a shame. Because people who send neg. rep. just to say nasty things are really spoiling what could be a constructive system.

    Sometimes people don't have the time to type lengthly posts, or want to waste time posting just to say "Yeah that!" or "No, rubbish!" So a quick way of sending that message to the poster is useful.

    I have only recently begun signing my rep. comments - after reading in the FAQ that some people can't automatically see who sent them. I didn't know *shame* But I don't understand this need to make public who sends what rep. It is a simple way of sending a simple message. In my view, that would simply turn it into a 'name and shame' situation, where people would start neg. repping other people for neg. repping someone they happened to agree with, who neg. repped you last week, who you've just noticed has neg. repped him and therefore really needs neg. repped themselves for being so picky...

    It's a simple system. I vote to just leave it as it is.


  11. #111
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    Re: Negative rep - is it useful?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    What about being able to view others rep comments?
    Most of the time these days we can see the negative rep. When people post it up to whine about receiving it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    I'm a newbie and I think the rep system is fine as it is. The problem is with the people that take it too seriously.
    Well said. There had to be something you said that I agreed with eventually! Law of averages and all that!

  12. #112
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    Re: Negative rep - is it useful?

    Although just numbers, the rep system is obviously very important to some of us and can create just as much heated debate than any 'serious' topic.

    Personally as I still feel as a new-ish member of this forum, and even more a newish member of the dance community, I like to know that posts I make on a dance forum are useful - or not.

    So receiving a +ve rep on a post talking about dance really gives me a sense of achieving that and makes me happy. (yeah I'm pretty simple in the end).
    Now there's also all the other +ve rep for being helpful, funny, or simply to comfort you when you need it , and that's very nice too.

    I've been neg-repped once, for being 'boring', well what can I say I like 'comique de repetition' and I can understand not everybody does. I did take it a little bit a heart though, since as I said I try to maintain a balance between my posts and the rep I receive for them. (although I suspect that as I know more and more people on this forum the importance I give to that will diminish with time).

    I neg-repped only once, somebody who doesn't contribute to the forum at all (3 posts or so) and was just there to post a blatant advert for his stuff. That just annoyed me that day.
    I've been thinking of neg-repping others for comments I find very silly, but I am 'afraid' (well may be not really ) that their said silliness would lead them to neg-rep me back, and as I said I like my own rep so I don't really want that. Plus they complain so much about it it must really upset them and although I do find them silly, I don't feel the need to upset them.

    However I am now thinking of using the 'ignore list' (have never used that before, do you know when somebody puts you on your ignore list?) by fear that those people may actually never post anything I'll find interesting.

    All this is in my own little opinion from my own little world of course and although I regret it , I accept that others might think differently and find those people funny or clever. H*ll, some people might even think their contribution on this forum is more valuable that mine .

    So to summarise, I don't really see anything wrong with the rep system as it is, I feel negative rep can (if well used) be a good tool to convey feedback, especially in the dance sections on the forum.

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    Re: Negative rep - is it useful?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp View Post
    Well said. There had to be something you said that I agreed with eventually! Law of averages and all that!
    Forget all the rep points, it's nothing next to an admission that Trampy agrees with something I've said!

  14. #114
    Not a spoon! Lou's Avatar
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    Re: Negative rep - is it useful?

    Sorry - have come to this thread a bit late. Still - better late than never. (And it's a bit long... )

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    Personally think it's pointless.
    Point - less... less points! V. funny! I geddit!

    Quote Originally Posted by Feelingpink View Post
    Quite. Wouldn't be steering the thread, would we DJ?
    DavidJames? Do that? For example....

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Which is why we have infractions - they're the "fines" in that analogy, as administered by duly-appointed authority figures (I know, I know, I'm trying to keep a straight face too).

    But generally, you can't be fined by another member of the public.
    Ahhh... now we get down to the truth of why DJ is bovvered by Neg reps - they're bad, because they're democratic & give Power To The People. Power which would be better invested in the NewDavidJamesDictatorship!

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    (I'm on the fence BTW )


    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    OK, there seems to be a bit of a pattern emerging here.

    Most of the people defending the -ve rep system are more long-standing members, and most of the ones attacking it are newer members.
    I disagree. I think David Franklin's ODA opinion is more likely accurate. After all...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    I'm a newbie and I think the rep system is fine as it is. The problem is with the people that take it too seriously.
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Also, a couple of points which I'd recommend to people:
    1. Sign your comments
    Guilty as charged! I've just checked my list of last reps I've given. All of them were positive, btw, and none of them were signed. You know, it would be easy fro Franck to make the rep sender field visible to all members, but for some reason it's seen as a perk of Silver Membership. Why should I disagree?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    But do you think there should be a guidline in place for their useage. Im all for it if used properly. Is it worth putting in a link so people can see others rep comments?
    Used "properly"? What does that mean? On the very few times I've given neg rep, I'm sure I've used it properly. Like Martin says...

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper View Post
    "All my bad feedback has been warranted: that is, I only click the "I disapprove" button when, uh, I disapprove. Also, I only click the "I approve" button when I approve.
    However...
    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper View Post
    2. Giving Lou a little red square for wildly inappropriate language (the word B*lgium).
    And I deserved it.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    What I mean is err, Using ebay as an exapmle, people will / should only leave bad feedback if warrented. Having said that, it's prob how the rep system was ment to have started anyhow?
    So, how would that work? On eBay, you leave feedback when you've bought or sold something. Are you proposing we leave feedback every time we read a post? I can just see it now, as my mouse hovers over an unspecified post....

    Lou thinks that this particular posting is ridiculous and does not recommend this forumite's posts to anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    And that also includes discussion of infractions, I've had about enough of listening to those too. See Rule 2.
    Ahhh. Infractions. Mind you, does anyone else think it's odd that people seem to get more worked up about Neg Rep than they do about infractions? To me it's like they're more happy to wear their Infraction like an ASBO Badge of Honour, however they'll go on about Neg Rep like someone on the Jeremy Kyle show complaining about abusive text messages from their BabyFather's ex's new girlfriend, etc....

    I don't care if we have Rep or not. However, I feel very strongly that we shouldn't be told how to use it by a vocal minority whose posts receive more Neg Rep than average....

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    Re: Negative rep - is it useful?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post

    I don't care if we have Rep or not. However, I feel very strongly that we shouldn't be told how to use it by a vocal minority whose posts receive more Neg Rep than average....
    And who are they? In the 950 odd posts I have made. I've had two neg reps. One was from Andy M and the other was a Harper rep so nothing unexpected.

    I think that must be a pretty good average. Was going to + rep you till that last comment.

    OK. Should the Rep's be reset every year?

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    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: Negative rep - is it useful?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    OK. Should the Rep's be reset every year?
    Software permitting, I think it would make more sense to put in a 'decay' factor. Given most of us agree that the rep/post ratio is most significant, a system where you also lost a fraction (say 0.05%) of your rep every time you posted would work quite well.

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    Re: Negative rep - is it useful?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post
    I don't care if we have Rep or not. However, I feel very strongly that we shouldn't be told how to use it by a vocal minority whose posts receive more Neg Rep than average....
    I'm sure variants have been suggested here (haven't read everything in detail), but on some old thread I'd posited the following rule:

    "Any post complaining about or even alluding to NR received should be neg-repped by as many folk as possible."

    It might even be worth going further and suggesting such posts earn infractions, to make it clear such wailing is simply not the done thing.

    My reasoning is, I'd thought one of the initial purposes of neg rep was to keep some of the negative stuff off the Forum. As things stand, giving NR actually puts more negative stuff on the Forum.

    Of course, you might end up with people being persistently harassed by neg rep from specific sources. But that sort of bullying can be sorted privately by moderators, whereas public wailing about neg rep is in a sense a very public form of bullying ("don't NR me or I'll tell") which annoys everyone.

    And another 2p piece clinks onto the floor.

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    Re: Negative rep - is it useful?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    Software permitting, I think it would make more sense to put in a 'decay' factor. Given most of us agree that the rep/post ratio is most significant, a system where you also lost a fraction (say 0.05%) of your rep every time you posted would work quite well.
    But that would stop people posting!!!!

    What about the threads like word association and what track are you listening to?

    Thats where most of my posts go. My post ave is 30 a day.15 of them are in the one word posts. 10 are defending myself/someone else and the other 5 prob have a decent bit of content. Got a new project starting soon so won't have as mush time to post (everyone breaths a sigh of relief (esp Trampy))

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    Re: Negative rep - is it useful?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    But that would stop people posting!!!!

    nah, it would stop people caring about rep though.

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    Re: Negative rep - is it useful?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart M View Post
    "Any post complaining about or even alluding to NR received should be neg-repped by as many folk as possible."
    Including this one?

    (couldn't resist that, sorry. My main reaction to your statement is a huge: )

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