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Thread: New Nukes for old

  1. #21
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: New Nukes for old

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    So is that why they want to reduce the number of subs to three?
    Errr, you're possibly assuming that "Military competence" and "Labour politicians" are synonymous?

    They're clearly trying to reduce the deterrent to keep the Old Guard (CND-ers) in Labour happy, throwing them a "Look, it's a bit like disarmament" bone, to avoid the political embarassment of only getting the vote through with Tory support, at the time when Labour will be electing a new leader.

    In other words, it's a political calculation, obviously, nothing to do with strategy.

    Or possibly I'm just being too cynical...? Nope, that's it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    I can't see why they can't manage with just two – one in, and one out.
    As I recall, it was something like, at any given time:
    - 1 sub in maintenance / refit
    - 3 subs in rotation - one at sea, one in "warmup" and one in "cooldown".

    They take a lot of time and care to maintain a nuclear sub properly. Which, I think we can all agree. is a Good Thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    As they are a deterrent and we're never going to use them, does it really matter where they are? Can't we just pretend to have 4, but really only have one and 3 cardboard cut-outs?
    Worth a try, certainly.

    Seriously, that's getting into the "is deterrence worthwhile / useful" area, which is a different discussion to "What's needed to provide effective deterrence". Which is 4 subs.

  2. #22
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    Re: New Nukes for old

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp View Post
    Why not just have 4 cardboard cut-outs then?
    cause they'd float (which as they are submarines, isn't really what we are aiming for)

    (see all this time hanging around with engineers is paying off!)

  3. #23
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: New Nukes for old

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    Consider Ireland.
    Does Ireland have a foreign policy? In fact, does it have an army?

  4. #24
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    Re: New Nukes for old

    Anyone know what the decommissioning process is? Is it poss that the old subs or nukes (minus warheads etc) could end up on ebay?

  5. #25
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: New Nukes for old

    Just checked out the "4 subs" thing, and from Wikipedia, I see:

    The principle of operation is based on maintaining deterrent effect by always having at least one submarine at sea, and was designed for the Cold War period. One submarine is normally undergoing maintenance and the remaining two are in port or on training exercises
    So I was more-or-less right.

  6. #26
    Registered User Magic Hans's Avatar
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    Re: New Nukes for old

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Does Ireland have a foreign policy? In fact, does it have an army?
    Well they're generally known for having pretty damn tough infantry ... along with the Scots.

    Iceland, however, doesn't!! [apparently]

  7. #27
    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
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    Re: New Nukes for old

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Does Ireland have a foreign policy? In fact, does it have an army?
    Don't know – but how many wars has it been involved in lately?

    They must be doing something right.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Re: New Nukes for old

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    Don't know – but how many wars has it been involved in lately?
    You mean besdies the little internal skirmish that has been going on for a few decades?

  9. #29
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: New Nukes for old

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Hans View Post
    Well they're generally known for having pretty damn tough infantry ... along with the Scots.
    Yep - looking it up, they've got 8,500 infantry troops, which is roughly equivalent to the UK at a proportion of their population. No air force though, which seems strange.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Hans View Post
    Iceland, however, doesn't!! [apparently]
    True...

    Looking at the Irish foreign policy, I'd imagine Scots would be quite similar - basically neutral in most disputes (but within the EU and NATO), which is pretty much the default position for most small states.

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    Don't know – but how many wars has it been involved in lately?

    They must be doing something right.
    Or, they must have nothing of any value that anybody wants - apart from the UK of course.



    Anyway, about these nukes...

  10. #30
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    Re: New Nukes for old

    Ah, so if we give Ian Paisley and Gerry Adams one nuke each - problem solved.

    How does that work exactly, PF?

  11. #31
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    Re: New Nukes for old

    Still interested on how nukes become decommisioned. Shurely once a Nuke is built, no matter how you pull it apart, there is still plutonium or the like to be dispossed of?

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    Re: New Nukes for old

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart M View Post
    Ah, so if we give Ian Paisley and Gerry Adams one nuke each - problem solved.

    How does that work exactly, PF?
    Actually what I was saying in response to D was that Ireland has seen its own share of action not that they should have nukes to solve internal politics


  13. #33
    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
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    Re: New Nukes for old

    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Fi View Post
    You mean besdies the little internal skirmish that has been going on for a few decades?
    That's been centred around Northern Ireland, with Ireland itself having relatively little involvement compared with the UK.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

  14. #34
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: New Nukes for old

    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Fi View Post
    Actually what I was saying in response to D was that Ireland has seen its own share of action not that they should have nukes to solve internal politics
    Hmmm, well actually, I don't think the Republic of Ireland per se has ever been involved in a proper war, have they? Some UN peacekeeping, but that's about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    Still interested on how nukes become decommisioned. Shurely once a Nuke is built, no matter how you pull it apart, there is still plutonium or the like to be dispossed of?
    Well, there's always the local Sushi bar, that seems to be the method of choice for the Russians

    Actually, I've no idea - I assume they're simply stored in a secure facility, at least we hope it's secure...

  15. #35
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    Re: New Nukes for old

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    That's been centred around Northern Ireland, with Ireland itself having relatively little involvement compared with the UK.
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Hmmm, well actually, I don't think the Republic of Ireland per se has ever been involved in a proper war, have they?
    I agree with that, but its enough non-peace like activity to mention. And if we were looking at "what Ireland are doing right to stop them being in a war" wouldn't "they've been a bit busy with other problems" be kind high on the thought list?

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