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Thread: At what point does dancing become showing off?

  1. #61
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    Re: At what point does dancing become showing off?

    Quote Originally Posted by C2D View Post
    Please dont take this the wrong way - but - if you have only been dancing a year, are you good enough to be showing off ???
    Surly you have to master moves to be able to show off.
    The likes of Victor, Phill, Alex, Roy and other great dancers have earned the right to show off.
    Nonsense, I would imagine they don't consider their dancing "showing off" at all and I've seen many dancers dancing less than a year that are far better than those who have been dancing 5.

    I would also say "mastery of moves" has very little to do with ability to dance

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    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: At what point does dancing become showing off?

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    I do agree that you should adjust your dance according to your partners style tho. That is one of the marks of a great dancer. Make it complimentary. 'Dance with your partner, not at her' sums it up whoever wrote that
    That was me.

    Been thinking about this a bit more.

    Dancing with various levels of leads last night, I did adjust how much styling I did - from not too much with a 2 week beginner (well I added in a little latin styling as I know he does salsa) to quite a lot with a well known partner who expects me to - its part of how we dance together. So it was all about the partner, not the audience.

    I'm also not sure about this 'dance to the level of the venue'. The level of our venue, especially amongst the men, is still fairly inexperienced. When we do have experienced leads I wouldn't want them to hold back too much as it gives our guys something to aim for and think about ways they could be more creative. I think it would inspire, rather than intimidate them.

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    Re: At what point does dancing become showing off?

    Been thinking about it quite abit over the last day (although not to the point it's kept me awake)

    I think that in the subconciousness somewhere we all adjust our styles etc without really knowing it.

    I know that when dancing with beginners, I don't deliberatly 'Tame down' my dancing, but I know Im not going to throw them in to drops or expect them to do seducers, where as a more experianced dancer I might expect seducers and them to be able to pull off abit of styling.

    'Dance with your partner, not at her'
    Is a good way of putting it.

    Whilst dancing thouh, I do thinks putting in style etc is complimentry to the person you are dancing with. I don't think anyone would thank a dancer who has just been really stylish with the previous dancer, just to plod.

    Also, we all have our own little quirks, habbits and tendancys when dancing that makes us the dancers we are. If everyone had the same style, ability and move knowledge, I wouldn't bother going.

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    Re: At what point does dancing become showing off?

    I get 'accused' of showing off quite a bit... normally by the dancers I'm dancing with

    Some of it is showing them off. Some of it is simply dancing to the music. Some of it is because I think whatever is cool and I really don't care if anyone else thinks so or not.

    I play pool and go for ricochet shots, bounce off cushons, etc. I dance trying to avoid ricochet shots and with little bounce, but it's with the same level of 'showing off': a test of judgement, skill and timeing. Get it right and it's great - get it wrong and you get another go brilliant

  5. #65
    Registered User killingtime's Avatar
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    Re: At what point does dancing become showing off?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    I'm also not sure about this 'dance to the level of the venue'. The level of our venue, especially amongst the men, is still fairly inexperienced. When we do have experienced leads I wouldn't want them to hold back too much as it gives our guys something to aim for and think about ways they could be more creative. I think it would inspire, rather than intimidate them.
    I agree wholeheartedly with this. I think seeing men who have a lot of style makes me try and put more style in my dance. If everyone is being very introverted and not doing any form of styling then I'd feel a little embarrassed trying to put in more flamboyant style (not really that much though I've never had much in the way of inhibitions).

    I tend to find I try things that could be seen as showing off in class. Mostly it's stuff I'm trying to work on (style points, maybe to see if I can syncopate a step). I guess people might see this as showing off rather than using the time productively. Last week we did a sort of first move walk spin thing that I've done before. Since a partner I had is experienced and up for a laugh I thought I'd see if I could do it in double time and put her into 4 spins rather than 2; it was purely out of my own curiosity rather than try and show off.

    I guess under definitions discussed before I do show off though. If I can fit a double spin in the same time my partner does one I'll often do it. Humm...

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    Re: At what point does dancing become showing off?

    Quote Originally Posted by killingtime View Post
    I agree wholeheartedly with this. I think seeing men who have a lot of style makes me try and put more style in my dance. If everyone is being very introverted and not doing any form of styling then I'd feel a little embarrassed trying to put in more flamboyant style (not really that much though I've never had much in the way of inhibitions).

    I tend to find I try things that could be seen as showing off in class. Mostly it's stuff I'm trying to work on (style points, maybe to see if I can syncopate a step). I guess people might see this as showing off rather than using the time productively. Last week we did a sort of first move walk spin thing that I've done before. Since a partner I had is experienced and up for a laugh I thought I'd see if I could do it in double time and put her into 4 spins rather than 2; it was purely out of my own curiosity rather than try and show off.

    I guess under definitions discussed before I do show off though. If I can fit a double spin in the same time my partner does one I'll often do it. Humm...

    Talking of puting in multi spins whilst your partner does one I sometimes ....

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    Re: At what point does dancing become showing off?

    This argument is fascinating. You've all picked up on the perceived 'offensive' thing that woodface said without picking up on the bit that is plain wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    Should a really good lead who executes his / her moves with style grace and precission stop doing so when a less talented follow dances with them who can not cope?
    Why should a 'less talented' follower require you to put less 'style grace and precission' (sic) into your dancing? Precision is absolutely necessary for beginners (I'm going to assume that's what you mean, not just women who aren't very good, but the same applies).

    And surely if you're so 'really good' your style can be accommodated into a clear and simple lead - you can't feel that you have to be doing fancy moves before you can style them, I'm certain. As long as it doesn't impact on the quality of your lead, it shouldn't be a problem. I agree with what you said somewhere up there that you should not put less energy into a dance just because your partner is less experienced - so why less style? They might even appreciate or learn from it :shock horror:

    As far as the showing off goes, I show off plenty if I'm in the mood, but to my partner primarily - and the level of showing off varies from just throwing in a double-spin (which is quite enough to impress most guys) and some extra spare-arm styling with guys who are obviously not very used to it, because I don't want to throw their lead off, whereas with guys who are putting some style in themselves, I will take my cue on styling and improvisation from them. It's all about 'with the partner' but in a positive way, never a negative (or you shouldn't have danced with them in the first place).

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    Re: At what point does dancing become showing off?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tessalicious View Post
    This argument is fascinating. You've all picked up on the perceived 'offensive' thing that woodface said without picking up on the bit that is plain wrong.
    Actually, we covered that when he said something similar a while back about "dumbing down" dancing - I know I did anyway. But probably worth re-emphasizing, yes.

    To try to illustrate the point, I spent a while trying to find that classic definition of dancers (the one starting something like "Beginner dancer: dances with beginners" and finishing something like "Advanced dancer: dances with everyone, especially beginners"), but the search engine defeated me. If anyone can dig it up, I'll rep them

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    Re: At what point does dancing become showing off?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tessalicious View Post
    Why should a 'less talented' follower require you to put less 'style grace and precission' (sic) into your dancing?
    I think you've answered this question yourself, in part:

    Quote Originally Posted by Tessalicious
    the level of showing off varies from just throwing in a double-spin (which is quite enough to impress most guys) and some extra spare-arm styling with guys who are obviously not very used to it, because I don't want to throw their lead off, whereas with guys who are putting some style in themselves, I will take my cue on styling and improvisation from them.
    It's the same with leads: we don't want to confuse followers by styling too much when they're not used to it.

  10. #70
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    Re: At what point does dancing become showing off?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    To try to illustrate the point, I spent a while trying to find that classic definition of dancers (the one starting something like "Beginner dancer: dances with beginners" and finishing something like "Advanced dancer: dances with everyone, especially beginners"), but the search engine defeated me. If anyone can dig it up, I'll rep them
    Heh. You're only worth 4 points of rep. It's not worth looking for that!

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    Re: At what point does dancing become showing off?

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper View Post
    It's the same with leads: we don't want to confuse followers by styling too much when they're not used to it.
    But if a lead is as good as woodface says he is, or as good as his hypothetical 'really good lead', surely his lead is clear enough to help a follower through any kind of confusion?

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    Re: At what point does dancing become showing off?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp View Post
    Heh. You're only worth 4 points of rep. It's not worth looking for that!
    Coo, when did you get to be a sixer? You show-off you

    (Still waiting for my other 44 points... )

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    Re: At what point does dancing become showing off?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Coo, when did you get to be a sixer? You show-off you

    (Still waiting for my other 44 points... )
    Yeah. I've got to rep a few more people before I can rep you again. It could take a while getting your 50 points to you!

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    Re: At what point does dancing become showing off?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tessalicious View Post
    But if a lead is as good as woodface says he is, or as good as his hypothetical 'really good lead', surely his lead is clear enough to help a follower through any kind of confusion?

    It was a hypothetical 'really good lead'. I made the point as a question for descussion.

    I personally will put in the same amount of effort with a beginner as I would anyone else I dance with as long as the musics right, I have the strength and im enjoying it.

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    Re: At what point does dancing become showing off?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tessalicious View Post
    If a lead is as good as woodface says he is, or as good as his hypothetical 'really good lead', surely his lead is clear enough to help a follower through any kind of confusion?
    You're a really good follower. Is your follow good enough to help a leader through any kind of confusion?

    In any case, many dancers do not enjoy spending an entire dance in a state of confusion. Whether their partner managed to keep the dance on track despite this confusion is immaterial: they don't find it fun. Some confusion is reasonable, but it's important to keep it within limits.

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    Re: At what point does dancing become showing off?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    To try to illustrate the point, I spent a while trying to find that classic definition of dancers (the one starting something like "Beginner dancer: dances with beginners" and finishing something like "Advanced dancer: dances with everyone, especially beginners"), but the search engine defeated me. If anyone can dig it up, I'll rep them
    Not worth searching for, as it's simply not true.

    Beginners should be able to "dance with everyone, especially beginners".

    Advanced dancers can match the ability of anyone they are dancing with. But why should they dance especially with beginners?
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Re: At what point does dancing become showing off?

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    Advanced dancers can match the ability of anyone they are dancing with. But why should they dance especially with beginners?
    Maybe he should have said 'enlightened dancers'

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    Re: At what point does dancing become showing off?

    My recollection is:

    Beginner - Knows nothing, dances with anyone.
    Intermediate - Knows something, dances with intermediates.
    Hotshot - Knows everything, too good to dance with anyone.
    Great Dancer - Knows nothing, dances with everyone. Especially beginners.
    It's mentioned on this thread:
    Where you go , I go

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    Re: At what point does dancing become showing off?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    I personally will put in the same amount of effort with a beginner as I would anyone else I dance with as long as the musics right, I have the strength and im enjoying it.
    That's true - he danced with a friend of mine who was Cerocing for the very first time on Saturday night at Bromley - definitely put in lots of effort!

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    Re: At what point does dancing become showing off?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface
    Should a really good lead who executes his / her moves with style grace and precission stop doing so when a less talented follow dances with them who can not cope?
    I (in part) agree with Tess - if you are dancing with someone, then it's your tallent that should enable you to dance with 'style, grace and precision' without putting your partner into a position where they feel that they can not cope.

    If you are "showing off", then you are dancing for yourself. Your partner is just a 'prop' to make you look good and/or display. There is little connection between you other than the physical lead/follow. It may look good, but it's not dancing with your partner, and after all - MJ is a partner dance.

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