Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 85

Thread: Forum Rules

  1. #61
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: Forum Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Andy, you've persistently referred to this comment and my alleged "headmasterly" behaviour. To clarify, my "I've got my eyes on you" comment was a joke, OK? I apologised for it - now, please, let it drop.
    Thank you David-the-Moderator for so rapidly giving me an example of exactly what I'm talking about, brilliant!

  2. #62
    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    10,015
    Rep Power
    14

    Re: Forum Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Thank you David-the-Moderator for so rapidly giving me an example of exactly what I'm talking about, brilliant!
    There's nothing that DavidJames has done as a moderator that I'd do very differently.

    So while I'm in headmasterly mode, can I refer you to forum rule #2:

    2. If you have a problem with a moderator, another member, or an admin, or if you have a concern about a site policy, take it up in a PM or e-mail. You can e-mail me at franck@cerocscotland.com and I will work with you on a resolution.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

  3. #63
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,781
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Forum Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Unfortunately, you can't tell someone when they're talking bad technique.
    that's just not true, it's the way you did that earned you the infraction. Critizising and being respectful are not antinomic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    What a day that was! Two infraction points and told off by headmaster David James.
    get over it now, all this whining is boring. Moderators have already said they act in concertation with each other. If you have a particular issue with DJ, take it with him directly.

    I really don't see what the big deal is with the rules. As many have said, it's just clarifying what already existed and adding a few people to look over the forum as it grows exponentially.
    People get used to get away with too much when there weren't enough moderators, and I'm glad if the new state of affairs encourages a bit more civilised discussions around here.

  4. #64
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Worcester, UK
    Posts
    4,157
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Forum Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    What a day that was! Two infraction points and told off by headmaster David James.
    I'm not sure which idea is less plausible: DavidJames being a headmaster, or Andy McGregor being emotionally fragile.

    With Franck and ducasi both posting their support of DavidJames, I think it's safe to say that your divide and conquer routine has failed. Try something else.

  5. #65
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Ambrosden it gets
    Posts
    7,480
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Forum Rules

    I think there is a clear divide between newbies and oldies and I guess time will tell

    All id say is, I’ve never heard before of people being banned for weeks at a time before that’s all im saying

    Obviously abusive behaviour is never acceptable

    What’s acceptable advertising now ?

    Come to a certain ceroc venue and/or meet before ? is that now not acceptable (my Fulham ceroc post)

    I assume well know users cant advertise there venue now ?? ie New year day stuff etc

    Time will tell

  6. #66
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: Forum Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    that's just not true, it's the way you did that earned you the infraction. Critizising and being respectful are not antinomic.
    Now that's the funny thing. I was being fairly gentle in my critique of woodface's tips on spinning, almost scientific: using references, quoting respected sources, etc, etc. I only started taking the Mick when it was obvious that woodface hadn't got a clue what I was talking about or wasn't listening - and after he'd made it clear that he doesn't like old people*.

    Of course I expect the moderators to stand shoulder to shoulder and I expect Franck to back them.

    What I'm saying is that there's now a feeling of over-moderation, at least from where I'm sitting. I'm saying it quite calmly, but I'm saying it clearly. I don't need to rush around the Forum picking up quotes to illustrate this. It's been everywhere over the last few days for anybody who cares to look. The moderators are giving gentle tickings off if a thread even looks like it might get exciting. It's like being in a mental home where the matron has gone mad with the sedatives "ooh, he's looking a bit excitable today, double the dose". And, from the PMs I've received, is a major reason for some old hands leaving the Forum.

    Me? I'm posting what I don't like about the new behaviour patterns in the hope that they are not going to become the norm. Do I like the way the Forum has gone recently? No I don't, and if I'd just joined I wouldn't stay. There are too many in-jokes which a newby wouldn't understand: there's too much luvviness between individuals that I haven't met: there's too much talk of how bad and wild it used to be: the moderators seem to be popping up in many threads to talk about moderation: it all feels a bit cliquey too. It's all a getting a bit dull. In the past I've created a heated debate in the certain knowledge that people find it interesting. I've done it before, and the Forum traffic has been huge! But the last time I did it, in a fairly mild way (said that the bad taste in their mouth might cause bad breath) I got an infraction. This leaves me wondering what you can post, how far you can go. My guess is nowhere

    Why am I posting this? I'd like to see a better balance. Before the new programme of moderation there was far too much mindless luvviness. I see this change as taking the Forum even further in that direction.

    *not that I'm old, but I know how easily upset some old people can be

  7. #67
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Rep Power
    15

    Exclamation Re: Forum Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Sensible stuff
    Is this sensible enough? It's a time of change and the time to comment is early in that change. Especially if the change is not to your liking.

    However, as Anti-Dullness Moderator I find myself boring and am now giving myself an infraction for being dull.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti-Dullness Moderator
    You have received an infraction at Ceroc Scotland Forum.

    http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/s...d.php?p=313128

    Reason: Terminally dull and boring
    -------
    Please avoid being boring, especially if new / newly-returned members might read your posts
    -------

    This infraction is worth 4 point(s) and your access is suspended for 5 days. Further dullness is a serious infraction and will never expire.

  8. #68
    Registered User Magic Hans's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Nottingham - for n
    Posts
    825
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: Forum Rules

    Quick tuppence worth -

    How many:
    posts per day on the forum (ish)
    number of members
    of threads
    PMs
    hits
    etc

    How about last year? .... 3 years ago? five years ago?

    What's my point? Hopefully it's reasonably clear - change.

    Sometimes painful, sometimes welcome, often both.

    I know of no system that doesn't have a 'birth, growth, decay, death' lifecycle.

    The difference being timescale.

    In terms of communities - smaller communities are inevitably more intimate, and easier to manage and administer [realm of the benevolent dictator]

    Larger communities inevitably require more structure, clarification, boundaries in order to survive. Clearly too much will strangle, and too little will result in chaos, and quite possible fracture and disintegration.

    As far as I can tell, these 'new' rules (they're not new at all, they've simply just now been written down) are no problem - but a symptom of an underlying issue - growth.

    Some prefer the family-likeness of smaller groups whilst others like the massive variety larger groups offer. Some leave, others join. I would call it inevitabiblity.

    If Franck is trying to please all of the people, all of the time, he would fail (as would the forum - or so Aesopwould have us believe).

    As with any change, through growth or otherwise, there will be winners and losers. That's life. Only one real option - live with it.

    tuppence worth ends here!!

  9. #69
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,781
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Forum Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    sensible stuff
    Well you certainly are very passionate about the forum and I respect that although personally I am happy with the new level of moderation going on.

    May be some people have left because of it, but I also know that people, who brought a very valuable contribution, have left because of lack of it (remember DavivB for example).

    The forum evolves as it gets more popular, new people coming etc and the forum has to be welcoming and non-threatening for them too.

    Coming back to the technical aspect of dancing, maybe we could have a 'dancing advise' section in which only serious, on-topic info is posted, possibly with a system to identify how much credit you can give to the advise? That would be an area with relatively short threads (no chatter, jokes etc) and a relatively small number of threads? (in comparison to the 'let's talk about dance' section).

  10. #70
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Ambrosden it gets
    Posts
    7,480
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Forum Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Now that's the funny thing. I was being fairly gentle in my critique of woodface's tips on spinning, almost scientific: using references, quoting respected sources, etc, etc. I only started taking the Mick when it was obvious that woodface hadn't got a clue what I was talking about or wasn't listening - and after he'd made it clear that he doesn't like old people*.

    Of course I expect the moderators to stand shoulder to shoulder and I expect Franck to back them.

    What I'm saying is that there's now a feeling of over-moderation, at least from where I'm sitting. I'm saying it quite calmly, but I'm saying it clearly. I don't need to rush around the Forum picking up quotes to illustrate this. It's been everywhere over the last few days for anybody who cares to look. The moderators are giving gentle tickings off if a thread even looks like it might get exciting. It's like being in a mental home where the matron has gone mad with the sedatives "ooh, he's looking a bit excitable today, double the dose". And, from the PMs I've received, is a major reason for some old hands leaving the Forum.

    Me? I'm posting what I don't like about the new behaviour patterns in the hope that they are not going to become the norm. Do I like the way the Forum has gone recently? No I don't, and if I'd just joined I wouldn't stay. There are too many in-jokes which a newby wouldn't understand: there's too much luvviness between individuals that I haven't met: there's too much talk of how bad and wild it used to be: the moderators seem to be popping up in many threads to talk about moderation: it all feels a bit cliquey too. It's all a getting a bit dull. In the past I've created a heated debate in the certain knowledge that people find it interesting. I've done it before, and the Forum traffic has been huge! But the last time I did it, in a fairly mild way (said that the bad taste in their mouth might cause bad breath) I got an infraction. This leaves me wondering what you can post, how far you can go. My guess is nowhere

    Why am I posting this? I'd like to see a better balance. Before the new programme of moderation there was far too much mindless luvviness. I see this change as taking the Forum even further in that direction.

    *not that I'm old, but I know how easily upset some old people can be
    I know where your coming from

    The cigarette debate of years gone past was often heated

    I wonder how many infractions that would get now

    I hope we don’t kill the ‘passion’ of ‘debate’


    Ps Thanks for ceroc ***** for putting ash trays on all their tables nice gesture

  11. #71
    Registered User Genie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    684
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: Forum Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    {snip}
    What I'm saying is that there's now a feeling of over-moderation,
    {snip}
    Me? I'm posting what I don't like about the new behaviour patterns in the hope that they are not going to become the norm. Do I like the way the Forum has gone recently? No I don't, and if I'd just joined I wouldn't stay. There are too many in-jokes which a newby wouldn't understand: there's too much luvviness between individuals that I haven't met: there's too much talk of how bad and wild it used to be: the moderators seem to be popping up in many threads to talk about moderation: it all feels a bit cliquey too. It's all a getting a bit dull. In the past I've created a heated debate in the certain knowledge that people find it interesting. I've done it before, and the Forum traffic has been huge! But the last time I did it, in a fairly mild way (said that the bad taste in their mouth might cause bad breath) I got an infraction. This leaves me wondering what you can post, how far you can go. My guess is nowhere

    Why am I posting this? I'd like to see a better balance. Before the new programme of moderation there was far too much mindless luvviness. I see this change as taking the Forum even further in that direction.

    *not that I'm old, but I know how easily upset some old people can be
    I am afraid I have to agree (at risk of being told off by moderators). I find myself wishing none of this had happened. A few weeks ago, I wasn't afraid to tell Andy he was talking a load of garbage (and then explain why, of course). Now I can't say anything in good humour (see above) without wondering who will take it seriously first and how long it will be before I get an infraction.

    It's partly why I've vanished from certain heated debates recently. It doesn't feel the same when you think everyone is going to breathe down your neck to find something to complain about.

    That is my opinion. Sorry if it upsets someone.

  12. #72
    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    10,015
    Rep Power
    14

    Re: Forum Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Genie View Post
    I am afraid I have to agree (at risk of being told off by moderators).
    Agreeing with Andy McGregor is still permitted in the rules – clearly an oversight on Franck's behalf. Will see if we can get that changed as soon as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Genie View Post
    It's partly why I've vanished from certain heated debates recently. It doesn't feel the same when you think everyone is going to breathe down your neck to find something to complain about.

    That is my opinion. Sorry if it upsets someone.
    Opinions expressed without rudeness are unlikely to upset the moderators. But maybe that will upset someone...
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

  13. #73
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    2,041
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Forum Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Genie View Post
    That is my opinion. Sorry if it upsets someone.
    You're entitled to your opinion and you expressed it in a polite and civilised way so you have no need to apologise for it.
    I don't think anyone is going to be upset by that even if they happened to disagree with it.

  14. #74
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Hastings
    Posts
    4,386
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: Forum Rules

    Think the moderation is fine. I use other forums for programming stuff and they get ruled much heavier than here!!!!!!

    Personally I have not found Andys posts about me (dispite that it has now carried on in to about 5 threads!!!) personal or disrespectful. Infact Im quite complimented by the fact he must think about me alot and take most of his comments laughing.

    Im certainly no teachers pet!!!. I don't personally know any of the mods on here and I will be subject to the same rules as everyone else.

    The forum is a good thing. If you don't like it, don't use it !!!

  15. #75
    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    SE London
    Posts
    4,204
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Forum Rules

    I agree with the opinion that there seems to be a higher and more involved level of moderation of late. It doesn't really bother me one way or another. But I would expect it to settle down again - we have new moderators, clarified rules, of course there are going to be some minor hiccups. But as with most change, things will settle, everyone will get used to it and things will probably carry on much as before.

  16. #76
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Belfast
    Posts
    8,925
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: Forum Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Genie View Post
    It's partly why I've vanished from certain heated debates recently. It doesn't feel the same when you think everyone is going to breathe down your neck to find something to complain about.
    You can still have debate, heated and vigorous debate - just don't be intentionally rude or insulting.

    I agree with Lou that these were 'unwritten' rules all along - show some respect for others on the forum - and it is sad that we have got this stage. But I think that things will settle down again - and I know that robust debate, banter and play will continue.

  17. #77
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Cruden Bay (Aberde
    Posts
    7,053
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Forum Rules

    Just as an asside - does anyone actually read the rules? What about the rules on software licence agreements?

    "yea,yea,yea... blah blah blah, tick, click - just let me do what I opend this for..."

    IMHO Rules are only there for the moderators to worry about: life goes on. (or so I'm told ) It's a forum - a discussion - a place to meet and talk about stuff - a social gathering - bound by normal social rules of behaviour.
    If I happen to step over a line, I'll be told. :shrug: I'll still post innane drivel and speak my mind; why should I behave any differently from any other social gathering?

  18. #78
    Papa Smurf
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Planet Scathe
    Posts
    12,528
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Forum Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    I'll still post innane drivel and speak my mind
    what do you mean "and"? that's exactly the same thing

  19. #79
    Registered User timbp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    544
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: Forum Rules

    Having just been forced to agree to the rules to be able to post, I posted my message, then went back to see what I had agreed to, then read this thread.

    I don't have any real problems with the rules. I do have a problem with the fact that rules were thought necessary. And that becomes a philosophical/ethical matter, in which my views don't necessarily match those of modern (western) society.

    I find it sad that community control lost out to regulation.

    Previously, if someone did not like a post they could give negative rep; a poster's rep depended on the general community opinion of what they wrote. And if somebody really did not like a post, they could report it to a moderator, who could delete or move it.
    In addition, moderators had the power to split threads, putting off-topic posts into a more appropriate area.

    Personally, I prefer the community control method, with full disclosure.
    With regulation, the big problem is the moment you prohibit something, everything not specifically prohibited becomes acceptable (defence is "it's not against the rules"). The risk with community control is people being banned for personal reaons (or allowed to post for personal reaons). With community control and full disclosure, anyone can see why a post was deleted or a person banned (without necessarily seeing the post; see whirlpool.net.au for an example of moderation with disclosure), and appeal if they feel it is justified.

    Unfortunately, increased regulation is a part of the modern world. Courts used to apply the "reasonable person" test -- what would a reasonable person think in this situation? Now the thinking appears to be: "a reasonable person would hire a lawyer, who would argue ...". And lawyers are trained to think in terms of law (and, if it's not illegal it must be legal).

    For the forum rules, "if it's not illegal, it must be legal" means the moderators cannot use their personal assessment of community mores to decide whether to delete a post. They must decide in accordance with rules. And if these rules are not specified, then all decisions are suspect.

    Therefore, we have rules that we must agree to before posting.

    The side effect is the same problem: "if it's not illegal it must be legal". I dont' think it's likely, but we could at any time get a spate of posts that follow the rules but would be regarded by members as spam. And the moderators will be able to do nothing about them if they follow the published rules.

  20. #80
    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    10,015
    Rep Power
    14

    Re: Forum Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by timbp View Post
    The side effect is the same problem: "if it's not illegal it must be legal". I dont' think it's likely, but we could at any time get a spate of posts that follow the rules but would be regarded by members as spam. And the moderators will be able to do nothing about them if they follow the published rules.
    Did you miss this paragraph in the rules?
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Rules
    Despite our best efforts, some of our members often stray from this ideal and cheapen the quality of discourse for everyone else. Unfortunately, it is simply impossible to write a comprehensive set of rules forbidding every type of antisocial behavior. The fact that the rules don't forbid a certain type of post does not automatically make an uncivil post appropriate, nor does it imply that the administrators approve of disrespectful behavior. Every member of this community has a responsibility to participate in a respectful manner, and to help foster an atmosphere of thoughtful discussion. In this regard, we strongly advise that our members exercise a little common decency, rather than trying to parse the message board rules to figure out what type of antisocial behavior is not forbidden. We don't intend to censor messages based on the opinions expressed within posts, but we will enforce the policies outlined both here and on the Forum. We reserve the right to remove, modify or move posts at our discretion and without explanation.
    As moderators we prefer to use common sense, and the "what would a sensible person think" test.

    We always prefer to hear from the community on what it thinks, and so please continue reporting posts that you think are wrong or inappropriate.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Forum rules of conduct
    By David Franklin in forum Forum technical problems / Questions / Suggestions..
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 21st-November-2006, 02:17 PM
  2. Democracy rules unless we say it doesn't
    By stewart38 in forum Chit Chat
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 31st-January-2006, 09:58 AM
  3. Jivemaster Rules
    By Jive Brummie in forum Let's talk about dance
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 15th-January-2005, 11:41 AM
  4. Ceroc Scotland Forum Rules!
    By Debster in forum Chit Chat
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 4th-July-2003, 12:19 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •