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Thread: Is it just me?

  1. #21
    Registered User Beowulf's Avatar
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    Re: Is it just me?

    Quote Originally Posted by jivecat View Post
    So, no, LMC, it's not just you.
    I don't normally indulge in these flame fests. But I have to side with LMC here, Andy I think your tone was a little harsh but I hear where you're coming from.. I just don't agree with it. But it would be a sad world if we all felt the same.. where would be the interesting debate? Note debate.. and argument are different.. but no doubt some smart @r$e will come in with a dictionary reference to prove how wrong I am

    I have noticed a certain increase in the number of barbed posts of late. But as others above have said , There are a number of feel good threads out there too. I don't claim to contribute anything to the forum.. if fact if there's a pointless, irrelevant thread out there then chances are my names it somewhere.

    The continual point scoring (and by that I don't mean rep points.. just general one-upmanship ) does get me down. I TRY to be a level headed, calm chap able to see both sides of an argument. I don't always succeed, and can lose my rag just like the rest of you (Exhibit A.. the Calendar threads) But I do try to maintain a certain level of civility towards my fellow forumites and if I'm wrong I'm not ashamed to say so.

    This is not directed at anyone, just my general observations that I do feel the forum temperature is on the rise and it's a much less welcoming place that it was when I first joined. Hopefully this is just a passing trend..

  2. #22
    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: Is it just me?

    I don't think anyone minds people venting off and putting their points of view across strongly, I for one really like that.
    As long as the venting is kept to the point being made and not slagging off anyone else for holding an alternative POV. Yes, debate is welcome but lets keep it civilised.

    I believe as soon as people see the same old culprits, going head to head, they just think, 'oh here we go again' I won't bother getting invloved

    What worries me, (and I've been told this) is some people feel intimidated from writing at all, for fear they will be ridiculed for their opinion.

    Everyone's opinion is as valid as the next person.

    So hopefully, with the slightly heavier moderating (I said slightly DJ ) some of the people who've been holding back from posting, will feel more relaxed about joining in, in the knowledge that if it turns into something personal, we're on hand to step in and edit out the offensive parts of posts and give warning to the offenders!

    Basically, all we're asking for, is for a little consideration and manners
    MODERATOR AT YOUR SERVICE
    "If you're going to do something tonight, that you know you'll be sorry for in the morning, plan a lie in." Lorraine

  3. #23
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Is it just me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    So hopefully, with the slightly heavier moderating (I said slightly DJ
    Hey, this is me, sitting here and being slight - I haven't banned anyone for hours now.

    (I think they all learnt a lesson when I shut the forum down yesterday afternoon anyway.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Basically, all we're asking for, is for a little consideration and manners
    And cash bribes, too. Or, hold on, is that just me?

    Anyway, being serious for a second, there are two main reasons why a moderated forum is a good forum, in marketese these are:
    - Recruitment: new members are more likely to join in a debate.
    - Retention: existing but inactive members are more likely to return or to post more.

    Both of these are hopefully Good Things - the more people post, the more interesting a place the forum becomes.

  4. #24
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    Re: Is it just me?

    There does seem to be a phantom neg-repper on here though. Seems to be happening to a few people.

    Seems he/she will neg rep just because they don't agree with a comment that has been made.

    Is there anything that can be done to remove this individuals totally unfounded and IMO unfounded neg-reps??

  5. #25
    Registered User Ghost's Avatar
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    Re: Is it just me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Think about an Indian restaurant.
    This I think is the crux of the argument. Some people view the Forum as an "Indian Restuarant" and feel that a higher level of temperature is exactly what's needed. Others don't and feel things should calm down a bit. As one of the latter I agree with LMC.

    I'm still waiting for the Forum Rules of Conduct (if it's been posted could someone send me the link )

    Be Well,
    Christopher

  6. #26
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Is it just me?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    There does seem to be a phantom neg-repper on here though. Seems to be happening to a few people.

    Seems he/she will neg rep just because they don't agree with a comment that has been made.
    Err... yes? That's one of the valid reasons for neg-repping.

    Have a look at the "rep" section of the Forum FAQ for more information.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    Is there anything that can be done to remove this individuals totally unfounded and IMO unfounded neg-reps??
    Strange how no-one ever wants unfounded positive rep removed...

    And the answer is, generally, no - unless the comment is abusive of course in which case it can be edited / reported / as appropriate. But just saying "I don't agree with this person neg-repping me" is not enough I'm afraid.

    And if you want to find out who neg-repped you, then I suggest you upgrade to Silver member status - seeing who repped you is one of the benefits you get from that.

  7. #27
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Is it just me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    I'm still waiting for the Forum Rules of Conduct (if it's been posted could someone send me the link )
    It's getting there, give us a chance.

    We've got the disclaimer, we'll be adding the others as they get done and approved.

  8. #28
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    Re: Is it just me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf1970 View Post
    This is not directed at anyone, just my general observations that I do feel the forum temperature is on the rise and it's a much less welcoming place that it was when I first joined. Hopefully this is just a passing trend..
    My own opinion is that the forum goes through ups and downs in terms of arguments. And I can think of no particular arguent on the forum in last week or even month that could have sparked LMC's post.

    IMHO, the forum is pretty steady in terms of it's temperature. There may be odd peaks, but if you were to take a weekly average, I believe it would be a pretty straight line.

    What does change is how you feel about what you read. Your own mood modifies your perception of the world around you. I think that this is the situation with LMC. This is made clear by the line at the bottom of her post:

    Quote Originally Posted by LMC
    *To whom it may concern: Yes, I must get out more. No, no new man on the scene, still happily single thanks - I've just been working 70-hour weeks for way too long and been knackered. Sorry (but you could have PM'd or called me too ya know?). No sign of the cat . Hope to catch up soon
    This makes it clear to me that it is LMC that is reading in a more sensitive way. As they say in a well known car advert, "ahh, she's tired". And that is why she thinks the Forum has changed. It has not changed, she has. So, in answer to the question that is the title to this thread. It's just you.

    The second thing we need to consider is how we react to this. What LMC is doing is making us wrong. We didn't know we were wrong until it was pointed out by LMC. If you don't think you're wrong and somebody else says that you are, the result is an argument. So, in saying that we're wrong, LMC has picked an argument. If she hadn't posted to make us wrong the Forum temperature would have remained the same. LMC posting in this manner has, therefore, done exactly what she has criticised the Forum for doing. Hypocrisy? I think so.

    Am I making her wrong? Yes I am, but it's in self-defence.

  9. #29
    Registered User jacksondonut's Avatar
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    Re: Is it just me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    I don't think anyone minds people venting off and putting their points of view across strongly, I for one really like that.
    As long as the venting is kept to the point being made and not slagging off anyone else for holding an alternative POV. Yes, debate is welcome but lets keep it civilised.

    I believe as soon as people see the same old culprits, going head to head, they just think, 'oh here we go again' I won't bother getting invloved

    What worries me, (and I've been told this) is some people feel intimidated from writing at all, for fear they will be ridiculed for their opinion.

    Everyone's opinion is as valid as the next person.

    So hopefully, with the slightly heavier moderating (I said slightly DJ ) some of the people who've been holding back from posting, will feel more relaxed about joining in, in the knowledge that if it turns into something personal, we're on hand to step in and edit out the offensive parts of posts and give warning to the offenders!

    Basically, all we're asking for, is for a little consideration and manners
    Thank you Lory... nicely put.

    If I come across any unpleasantness on the forum I choose to ignore it and look elsewhere... it IS a choice at the end of the day, my choice is not to participate in anything that offends me.

    But LMC, I have noticed a trend which kinda puts me off reading a lot of the threads and I have spend less time on the Forum of late.. is a good thing, as it can be SOOOOO addictive...

    On the whole though, I still like to know what is going on..

  10. #30
    Registered User LMC's Avatar
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    Re: Is it just me?

    As FP says, you can hardly know what you don't want to read until you've read it . Like Sue M, I can't stand the smell of Indian food and avoid Indian restaurants. But Indian restaurants say what they are on the outside, a forum thread may not.

    I think a Boiler room would be a good idea. Then you know what you might be getting into and can avoid it if you wish. Er, isn't that what Take it Outside is for? - or can threads not be started there?

    Quote Originally Posted by jivecat View Post
    I remember being shocked by the infighting on the forum when I first joined (back in Mikey days) but over the past couple of days I've been thinking about how poisonous the atmosphere seems. I don't know if it's worse than before.

    The people who say that people are over-sensitive might care to consider how they might feel if they were on the receiving end of abusive posting. I used to think it was entertaining when it was happening to someone else, but I've changed my mind about that.
    Exactly. I like a good row as much as the next person, but when I first joined (later than many), most of the abuse seemed to be aimed at what someone had said, rather than them personally. And there was a topic - the frozen embryos thread that DJ linked to upthread is a reasonably good example of a heated but (mostly) respectful debate about something in particular, rather than a conversation along the lines of "let's exchange insults and see if we can make someone not find it funny any more and get upset".

    Beowulf has understood what I meant by point scoring - I didn't mean rep points.

    I have seen posts from numerous people who were bullied at school - as I was. I have been shocked and am ashamed to realise that there have been times when *I* have been equally unkind. I'm not perfect - I can think of more than a few posts of mine which make me cringe (so I try not to think of them). I can think of instances in the last couple of years where I have really truly not been kind or respectful - not just on here, IRL as well - and I am ashamed of myself for displaying bullying behaviour and am trying to do better.

    Unfortunately, there seems to be a high level of opinion on here that "taking a joke" is more important than someone's feelings. To anyone: how many light-hearted insults have you made in the name of "taking a joke" and "being a good sport", when someone has actually really hurt you, and really, you want to cry?

    Thx for link to forum temperature thread DJ - sorry I missed that one before I posted this thread But posts on there and on here, as well as comments I've received privately tell me that I am not alone. It doesn't mean I'm right. It doesn't mean that I'm going to be a saint from here on in. But I'm not going to be a bystander any more.

    EDIT as cross-typed with Andy: Yep, I'm a hypocrite - see above. And I freely admit that yes, I am being more sensitive. I don't see it as a negative thing [shrug] - but that's where I am at the moment. I can't explain myself to you as you've never even met me, so I'm not going to try.
    Last edited by LMC; 25th-November-2006 at 03:16 PM. Reason: Link removed as it's not the one I wanted, and I can't find the one I did want, dammit - will keep looking

  11. #31
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    Re: Is it just me?

    Quote Originally Posted by LMC View Post
    EDIT as cross-typed with Andy: Yep, I'm a hypocrite - see above. And I freely admit that yes, I am being more sensitive. I don't see it as a negative thing [shrug] - but that's where I am at the moment. I can't explain myself to you as you've never even met me, so I'm not going to try.
    This is directed entirely at me and should have been sent as a PM. But, as it's in the public domain and LMC does know other members of the Forum I was wondering if she was going to "explain herself" to them?

    N.B. Until LMC mentioned "explaining herself" I didn't think there was any need for her to do so.

    On the subject of LMC "being more sensitive", I think the problem is that she doesn't "see it as a negative thing". This is a blindness to the way people react to what she says. It's shows a lack of concern for other people's feelings. And that is what I've been saying the creation of this thread demonstrates. Maybe I've been a bit clumsy in the way I've said it. But I really do think LMC has come visiting to pick a fight - at least is saves the cat being kicked.

    It's very easy to get into this combative mindset. If anybody is thinking of joining her, consider this: if you hug somebody, you are likely to get hugged back, if you compliment somebody you are likely to receive a compliment in return. But if you shout at somebody you are likely to be shouted at, if you insult somebody you are likely to receive an insult in return and if you hit somebody there is a good chance that they will hit you back.

    The answer is to be nice from the outset

  12. #32
    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: Is it just me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    So, in answer to the question that is the title to this thread. It's just you.
    Given there are several people agreeing with LMC on the thread (and prior to you posting this), including someone who explictly said "it's not just you", I'm forced to conclude you either have a lot of people on your ignore list, or you are, how can I put this? Picking an argument? Being a hypocrite? Lying?

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    Re: Is it just me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    The answer is to be nice from the outset
    Pot, kettle

  14. #34
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    Re: Is it just me?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    Given there are several people agreeing with LMC on the thread (and prior to you posting this), including someone who explictly said "it's not just you", I'm forced to conclude you either have a lot of people on your ignore list, or you are, how can I put this? Picking an argument? Being a hypocrite? Lying?
    I'm sticking to my guns and disagreeing with the people who agreed with LMC. Read the thread again. Some people have disagreed with LMC and others have agreed with me.

    Calling me a liar? Pistols at dawn sir

  15. #35
    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: Is it just me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Read the thread again. Some people have disagreed with LMC and others have agreed with me.
    I never said anything else. What I disputed was your statement:
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor
    in answer to the question that is the title to this thread. It's just you.
    Which is clearly and demonstrably false, as evidenced by:
    Quote Originally Posted by JiveCat
    It's not just you
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost
    I agree with LMC.
    Does that make you a liar? Well, I'm not sure you could even claim economy with the truth here, to be honest.

  16. #36
    Registered User Genie's Avatar
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    Re: Is it just me?

    Quote Originally Posted by LMC
    I have seen posts from numerous people who were bullied at school - as I was. I have been shocked and am ashamed to realise that there have been times when *I* have been equally unkind. I'm not perfect - I can think of more than a few posts of mine which make me cringe (so I try not to think of them). I can think of instances in the last couple of years where I have really truly not been kind or respectful - not just on here, IRL as well - and I am ashamed of myself for displaying bullying behaviour and am trying to do better.

    Unfortunately, there seems to be a high level of opinion on here that "taking a joke" is more important than someone's feelings. To anyone: how many light-hearted insults have you made in the name of "taking a joke" and "being a good sport", when someone has actually really hurt you, and really, you want to cry?
    So what you are saying, LMC, is that because some people can't 'take a joke' the rest of the forum must stop making them?

    If I say something that genuinely upsets someone, I would expect them to tell me so that I know, and can apologise. If you are so upset you want "to cry" then someone has gone too far. But so far no post has made me cry (laugh unto tears, maybe) and I can't see how anyone could get quite that upset about something posted here. If they do, I would expect them to be a sensible adult and tell the person responsible that they've been really hurt. Hanging around going "oooh, that's not nice, I'm upset" and then not doing anything about it is a bit childish, in my opinion. Moderators can be PM'd if you can't confront the person who upset you. But I would be hard pressed to find a moment here where I have felt 'bullied' here. I don't like that term, I find it relates too much to children in a playground throwing mud at someone and calling them names. So far in this thread I haven't seen Andy call LMC any nasty names. If LMC is offended by Andy's posts it is no more or less than he may be offended by hers. But sitting crying 'bully' doesn't really help. A lot of adults in debates like these are 'not' children, and therefore are probably not likely to know they have upset you to the point of tears :shocked: But if you say something, I think they are adult enough to say "look, I am sorry, I didn't mean to upset anyone, I was just making a point" or something to that effect.

  17. #37
    Registered User Genie's Avatar
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    Re: Is it just me?

    :looks over at Andy and David:

    You two

  18. #38
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Is it just me?

    Firstly. No, not just you.

    I like a good debate and difference of opinion - and I'm glad to see we have had some of those recently. People can say 'I really don't agree with you and this is why'. Those arguements can get more heated at times but they don't launch into that straight away.

    But some threads have certainly felt like an agressive and at times personal attack is the first level of disagreeing with someone.

    I know some people find these threads interesting and entertaining. Others find them somewhat repetitive and boring.

  19. #39
    Registered User Genie's Avatar
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    Re: Is it just me?

    Repetitive and boring is fine. Just don't read it. If you start reading a thread and yawn, you're in the wrong place. But heated is not boring.

    I am not agreeing with 'personal attacks' - that's not on. But perhaps someone ought to look at the people making some of these so-called attacks and who they're making them to. If it's David to Andy, or LMC to Trampy, then you won't find any of them sitting a corner going 'Bully!" and crying. Well, you might, but they'd likely be crying because they have just been asked to read several pages of small print in a law document in order to back up their point...

    Last edited by Genie; 25th-November-2006 at 03:56 PM. Reason: Speeling is appawling

  20. #40
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    Re: Is it just me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Nope! It's just business as usual
    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Nope its you, you posted like this before

    we are all the same just older
    Quote Originally Posted by Genie View Post
    Anyway, I agree with Andy. To an extent.
    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin
    Does that make you a liar? Well, I'm not sure you could even claim economy with the truth here, to be honest.
    I was expressing my opinion. And, in my opinion, LMC is wrong. Some people agreed with me, more people didn't. But, luckily for me, this is a forum, not a democracy. Even in a democracy a minority view is still a view, disagreeing with the majority doesn't make you a liar and it doesn't make you wrong. In fact, a minority view is often found to be the correct one. Time will tell.

    I stick to my opinion. The forum temperature had not risen until LMC started this thread. LMC has come onto the forum and started trouble. Had she not posted, I would not have responded.

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