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Thread: MJ for the club market?

  1. #1
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    MJ for the club market?

    Given the discussion about Ozzie jumping-around-like-a-dervish style, with emphasis on athleticism and so on ( - I'm just jealous ), it reminded me that the age scene in Oz is (I believe) generally younger than the UK - 20-30 not 30-40, say? I'm not sure why this is - presumably a different marketing strategy.

    However, given that, and given the comments in the "Making ceroc cool?" thread, it appears that Ceroc UK don't really explicitly target the younger generation (18-30, say).

    But are they missing a trick? Is there a potentially lucrative market, given sufficient marketing, in that age range?

    Consider:
    • Younger people are used to spending more on an average night out than old tightwads like me,
    • They're more happy with paying for extra for merchandising and branding
    • They've seen various partner dance shows on primetime TV over the past couple of years
    • But they're not attracted to the standard "school-hall" model of Ceroc classes.


    So, is there be a market for a kind of "Club Ceroc"?

  2. #2
    Registered User Blueshoes's Avatar
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    Re: MJ for the club market?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    However, given that, and given the comments in the "Making ceroc cool?" thread, it appears that Ceroc UK don't really explicitly target the younger generation (18-30, say).
    I was thinking of starting a similar thread, asking why there are so few young dancers. Personally I love watching the younger dancers (no comments here please) as they have an energy and style much different to old gits like me and DavidJames.

    I hadn't thought along the lines of having seperate clubs for them but now it's been raised I think it's a really good idea - they can socialise with people of their own age and the class could be geared to the younger element. And if they want to broaden their horizons they can move on to regular nights.

    A definite thumbs up from me!

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    Registered User Tessalicious's Avatar
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    Re: MJ for the club market?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    However, given that, and given the comments in the "Making ceroc cool?" thread, it appears that Ceroc UK don't really explicitly target the younger generation (18-30, say).
    Funny, I've heard so many criticisms that Ceroc is doing too much of just that - people are outraged at the preference for younger teachers and demonstrators, proclaiming that these people are much younger than most of the people doing their classe and that Ceroc should just target the people who are interested, not try to become younger.
    Younger people are used to spending more on an average night out than old tightwads like me
    We are?
    (Most of my younger friends can't afford to do Ceroc more than once a week or a fortnight unless they taxi.)
    They're more happy with paying for extra for merchandising and branding
    We are?
    They've seen various partner dance shows on primetime TV over the past couple of years
    Sure, but most would rather watch X-Factor.
    But they're not attracted to the standard "school-hall" model of Ceroc classes.
    Interesting one, the only thing I don't prefer about the 'school-hall' type venues is that the drinks don't come out of a cold pipe.
    So, is there be a market for a kind of "Club Ceroc"?
    Dunno, but is thar be from Somerset?

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: MJ for the club market?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tessalicious View Post
    Funny, I've heard so many criticisms that Ceroc is doing too much of just that - people are outraged at the preference for younger teachers and demonstrators, proclaiming that these people are much younger than most of the people doing their classe and that Ceroc should just target the people who are interested, not try to become younger.
    I don't think there is such a preference, at least not now.

    And looking at the ceroc.com website, I can't see anything about age ranges, and the profiles (which I assume are selected to represent "who does ceroc") seem to be of all ages.

    As for "young people being more willing to spend more money"
    Quote Originally Posted by Tessalicious View Post
    We are?
    Yes, of course, that's why so much marketing is aimed at that particular demographic.

    Ironic, really, as youngsters have less income than us oldies in general - but I guess more of it is disposable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tessalicious View Post
    (Most of my younger friends can't afford to do Ceroc more than once a week or a fortnight unless they taxi.)
    Extrapolating from "people I know" to "an entire age range" is probably not the most scientific analysis technique...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tessalicious View Post
    Sure, but most would rather watch X-Factor.
    What matters is, more of them are watching SCD / SDF than were watching it 5 years ago - so there's more exposure, there's more publicity, and there's more "cool factor".

    Which conceivably could be exploited, to reach a demographic that (in general) has not been commonly-represented in Ceroc nights, but which offers some lucrative potential opportunities.

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    Re: MJ for the club market?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Ironic, really, as youngsters have less income than us oldies in general - but I guess more of it is disposable.
    No mortgage, no pension, no kids. In general.

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    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: MJ for the club market?

    Didn’t you see my comments on the Clapham venues which are falling apart at the seams – both in “clubs”? I suspect that the reason that Ceroc uses them is that they are cheap because of their descript condition. To get anywhere halfway decent and club-like is going to cost a lot more money. £15 for a standard Ceroc class night anyone? Maybe more since dances don’t tend to be boozers so you don’t have the income there?

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    Re: MJ for the club market?

    We have 3 nights in nightclubs (Jumping Jaks) in Scotland - Aberdeen (2) and Glasgow.

    Of the 2 nights, I've been to, both seem to attract a younger crowd. Neither venue is falling apart at the seams (though, the decor isn't to my taste!). And it's the standard charge for Ceroc to get in....

    Oh, and both are doing very well in terms of numbers.

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    Registered User Blueshoes's Avatar
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    Re: MJ for the club market?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tessalicious View Post
    Funny, I've heard so many criticisms that Ceroc is doing too much of just that - people are outraged at the preference for younger teachers and demonstrators, proclaiming that these people are much younger than most of the people doing their classes and that Ceroc should just target the people who are interested, not try to become younger.
    The question DavidJames is posing as I understand it is whether Ceroc should target specific evenings at younger people and leave the old fuddies (over thirties) to get on with their own evenings.

    You would have a much better idea of this than myself Tess, would you prefer to go to venues with a target 18 -30 age range?

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: MJ for the club market?

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    To get anywhere halfway decent and club-like is going to cost a lot more money. £15 for a standard Ceroc class night anyone? Maybe more since dances don’t tend to be boozers so you don’t have the income there?
    Ah, but hence my "high disposable income" comments - if you explicitly target a "club-going" crowd, you'll be marketing to people who are used to paying more for a night out, so you can charge more for a night than a standard Ceroc £7 fee.

    Also, you can probably charge more for drinks - £2 for a bottle of water, perhaps, which price would be met by complete wrath in a "normal" Ceroc atmosphere.

    So yes, clubs might be more expensive (depends on the night though), but if you can charge more, then you've got a viable model.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blueshoes View Post
    The question DavidJames is posing as I understand it is whether Ceroc should target specific evenings at younger people and leave the old fuddies (over thirties) to get on with their own evenings.
    Basically, yes. A "Ceroc Junior" if you will (boy, how patronising does that sound )

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    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: MJ for the club market?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp View Post
    We have 3 nights in nightclubs (Jumping Jaks) in Scotland - Aberdeen (2) and Glasgow.

    Of the 2 nights, I've been to, both seem to attract a younger crowd. Neither venue is falling apart at the seams (though, the decor isn't to my taste!). And it's the standard charge for Ceroc to get in....

    Oh, and both are doing very well in terms of numbers.
    Well maybe it is possible – but my impression of clubs in London (since I don’t frequent them these days) is that they tend to be expensive. Particularly in central London, which here is where you’d probably have to place them to do what DJ is suggesting, though I might be wrong.

    When I commented to someone at Clapham (a taxi dancer I think it was), they pointed out the correlation between bad conditions (the overflowing air conditioners that provide impromptu showers and bits of ceiling covering coming down – the place is littered with “take care” signs!) and cheap rent.

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    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: MJ for the club market?

    Why does this have to be to the under 30’s? If we are talking about a better quality venue, I wouldn’t mind that, say for a Saturday night out, freestyle type thingy.

    Am still not sure it would work for a standard Ceroc class night. You need to go at least twice a week really, and lots of people go a lot more than that. If it was £12, plus say 2 bottles of your water at £2, that’s £16 per night and £32 a week if you want to get to be any good. Plus probably some alcohol before, during or after, so +£40 per week.

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    Registered User Tessalicious's Avatar
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    Re: MJ for the club market?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blueshoes View Post
    The question DavidJames is posing as I understand it is whether Ceroc should target specific evenings at younger people and leave the old fuddies (over thirties) to get on with their own evenings.

    You would have a much better idea of this than myself Tess, would you prefer to go to venues with a target 18 -30 age range?
    Ick, what a horrible idea. I know one venue that was getting pretty close to that at one point, and that is when I stopped enjoying it (not naming any names, sorry). Part of the fun of Ceroc for me is the variety of people.

    Mind you, I'm not exactly a typical 21 year old, so maybe I'm not the best one to ask.


    And I'm not going anywhere where my donkey is too old to get in!

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    Ceroc Teacher Dazzler's Avatar
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    Re: MJ for the club market?

    In Inverness we have a great range of people of all ages although we are definately lacking young guys...i am the youngest guy by a good few years but we have a few female dancers in thier early 20s, last night we went to a bar after the class, this bar is reasonably new and trendy but has a good dance floor (which is normally not used) and also a very accomodating DJ we danced there for a couple of hours and seemed to have a crowd of youngsters around us watching then tryin to recreate what we were doing!...i fully intend to take flyers next time!....the point i am getting at is that the venue does not have to be in a club to get attention of younger people but getting out there and busking in bars and clubs is if they are seeing it then ask 'where did you learn to do that?' you can simply say or give them a leaflet.....does anyone else think that this could be the way forward for recruiting a younger crowd?

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: MJ for the club market?

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    Why does this have to be to the under 30’s? If we are talking about a better quality venue, I wouldn’t mind that, say for a Saturday night out, freestyle type thingy.
    Because over-30's, generally, don't spend as much on nights out. We want value for money, we have other stuff to spend our cash on, and so on.

    Again, extrapolating from "what I like" to "what everyone my age likes" is poor marketing technique.

    To quote Wikipedia (as always):
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Demographic profiling is essentially an exercise in making generalizations about groups of people. As with all such generalizations many individuals within these groups will not conform to the profile - demographic information is aggregate and probabilistic information about groups, not about specific individuals.
    Or, in other words

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    Am still not sure it would work for a standard Ceroc class night. You need to go at least twice a week really, and lots of people go a lot more than that. If it was £12, plus say 2 bottles of your water at £2, that’s £16 per night and £32 a week if you want to get to be any good. Plus probably some alcohol before, during or after, so +£40 per week.
    Yep - and some young urban professionals would not blanch at all at that figure.

    Don't get me wrong - I don't think this is as big a market as the current Ceroc UK market, and I am not a marketing research professional. But it's possible.

    And the obvious extra bonus for Ceroc UK of this would be that it could "hook" people at an earlier stage, therefore getting them addicted younger and spending more money on Ceroc throughout their lifetimes.

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    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: MJ for the club market?

    So why don't you post a poll for those under 30 on the forum?

    I still suspect that there would be a market for somewhat classier nights out for those in the older demographic though. Those without kids particularly. What makes you think that there isn't?

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: MJ for the club market?

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    So why don't you post a poll for those under 30 on the forum?
    Because:
    • Polls are the 's work
    • It'd be non-representative; Tessalicious is sadly atypical


    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    I still suspect that there would be a market for somewhat classier nights out for those in the older demographic though. Those without kids particularly. What makes you think that there isn't?
    Because the only argument you've made is that "It's something I'd like to do", and that's not exactly a sound base for a detailed market research.

    And I'm not sure there is such a market - look at the low take-up for Swish, Ceroc's plain attempt at the classy end of the market.

    Whereas it's an established fact that the younger demographic spends proportionately more dosh on leisure - why else do you think everyone's chasing after their money in this area? Look at any relevant ad, see the age range it's targetted at.

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    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: MJ for the club market?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    And the obvious extra bonus for Ceroc UK of this would be that it could "hook" people at an earlier stage, therefore getting them addicted younger and spending more money on Ceroc throughout their lifetimes.
    Hmmm, my impression of the 18 to 30 year olds I see out on a Fri/Sat night is that they are mostly into wearing cool gear, getting intoxicated and getting laid. I'm not sure how a MJ night would satisfy/replace those criteria (though the post-break up attendees at some MJ clubs do seem to also persue the "getting laid" criteria ).

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    Re: MJ for the club market?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp View Post
    We have 3 nights in nightclubs (Jumping Jaks) in Scotland - Aberdeen (2) and Glasgow.

    Of the 2 nights, I've been to, both seem to attract a younger crowd. Neither venue is falling apart at the seams (though, the decor isn't to my taste!). And it's the standard charge for Ceroc to get in....

    Oh, and both are doing very well in terms of numbers.
    I think that's probaly more due to location rather than venue, although the fact it's a club will have a little influence.

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    Re: MJ for the club market?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Hmmm, my impression of the 18 to 30 year olds I see out on a Fri/Sat night is that they are mostly into wearing cool gear, getting intoxicated and getting laid.
    That's because you're old, Gus. If you were young you'd realise we have different priorities to that.

    I mean, getting laid is way more important than wearing cool gear.

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    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: MJ for the club market?

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper View Post
    That's because you're old, Gus. If you were young you'd realise we have different priorities to that.

    I mean, getting laid is way more important than wearing cool gear.
    Ahem, the first two criteria are pre-requisites to achieving the third criteria.

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