Simon Boreland - visionary or cynical manipulator?

[under par]

He was even dishonest to me on the phone on Thursday when I asked him, point-blank, what was going on. I wonder how those doing the inviting feel about their part in the deception?

Good point ESG the lovely person who invited me was probably fed a few lines as well .

I do not hold any malice against the invitor...... the dishonest approach to setting up this event rests firmly on the organiser's shoulders!!!!

nuff said

[Lou]

Hold on, was that an echo? You stated the premise, now you're attacking it?

Nah - my premise is that it's not unusual for new MJ organisations to start-up in the UK. ESG did then point out that he felt it was unusual in London. This is a fair enough viewpoint, as no doubt most people feel that 2 new well known starts-ups (Hipsters & JangoLushMelt) plus several smaller independents within London in the last 5 years isn't all that much. I'm not sure I agree, but I've listened to the comment, and I accept the validity of the opinion.

I also feel it's not unusual for a person involved with one organisation to then go on to start up independently. I agreed with Gus that this example is not even as unethical, dishonest and blatent as other ones we've seen. And it's not as if the more cynical/experienced forumites didn't see it coming. (Do you really think that an intelligent person who was planning to go it alone would openly announce it beforehand? This is the real world).

And I think that there's a certain vocal percentage of the forum who would rather moan about perceived unfairness, illegality and conspiracies (when there's even no indication that even Ceroc™ HQ have that point of view - and even if they did, I doubt they'd admit it openly ) than celebrate the fact that folks in London have even more variety and choice of where to dance.

So does that clarify my position, DJ?

[David Bailey]

{ snip stuff saying DJ was right all along }
So does that clarify my position, DJ?

Yep.

[El Salsero Gringo]

Nah - my premise is that it's not unusual for new MJ organisations to start-up in the UK. ESG did then point out that he felt it was unusual in London. This is a fair enough viewpoint, as no doubt most people feel that 2 new well known starts-ups (Hipsters & JangoLushMelt) plus several smaller independents within London in the last 5 years isn't all that much. I'm not sure I agree, but I've listened to the comment, and I accept the validity of the opinion.

It's not a weekly occurence, let's agree on that.

And I think that there's a certain vocal percentage of the forum who would rather moan about perceived unfairness, illegality and conspiracies

There are very few walks of life where all kinds of truth-hiding (for want of a better expression) can be avoided at all times - still fewer outside monasteries and convents. Anyone who wants to mark Simon down for this one needs to understand that. And no, nobody died. But it's still an unusual way to go about things.

[Gus]

There are very few walks of life where all kinds of truth-hiding (for want of a better expression) can be avoided at all times - still fewer outside monasteries and convents. Anyone who wants to mark Simon down for this one needs to understand that. And no, nobody died. But it's still an unusual way to go about things.

Simon took a risk and relied on his strong core of devotess and his strong personal brand. He may have well 'expolited' the situation but I think the key question is not the reponse fomr those who may feel 'had' ... but of Ceroc! AFAIK this is the first time for 6 years or so that someone has taken on Ceroc HQ in their own patch and, in some eyes, rubbed their noses in it aswell. It would be great if Ceroc would state what their view is. Are they pi$$ed off or supportive? Anyone got the inside word?

[El Salsero Gringo]

...but I think the key question is not the reponse fomr those who may feel 'had' ... but of Ceroc!

I know you like to stir even more than I do, but why is this the "key" question?

[David Bailey]

I know you like to stir even more than I do, but why is this the "key" question?

I think he meant to type "yek question".

And it's definitely the yek question. No doubt about it.

[Gus]

I know you like to stir even more than I do, but why is this the "key" question?

OK ... not THE key question, but an interesting question. Like all good gossip mags I'd like to know what Ceroc's views are and what, if any, will be their response.

[foxylady]

Having been away all weekend, have just read the whole of this thread with interest.

I was one of the people that Simon asked to 'invite' people... I understand he asked 25 or so of us to invite people. And I asked a number of people via the forum, and I feel that I let them down. Not because of the launching of the business empire bit though (I must be quite gullible I think as I really didn't believe that this was anything other than a party that I had been asked to 'help' with), but let them down because the evening as a 'dance' evening really wasn't very good.

I also think that people would feel less aggrieved by the 'business launch' stuff if they had had a cracking evening !!

It was free. The nibbles were good. It had a good atmosphere.
BUT the music was dire for (good) MJ, and the floor wasn't great.
I had 4 dances all evening !! and all my favourite dancers (well the southern ones anyway) were there - I had invited most of them...

All I can say to those that I invited is that had we had the right music (and more floor space) there aren't many who weren't there with whom I would have preferred to spend an evening dancing with than you guys ...


I hope this makes sense, and I hope I haven't inadvertently offended anyone in the writing of this post !

[Spin dryer]

How would they all feel if someone told them that the only reason they're at a Ceroc class is to make money for Ceroc?

Nobody objects to the pursuit of profit; everone objects to being manipulated.

[Spin dryer]

I'd agree that "Blatantly deceiving some of your customer base" is not a good way to start, of course. But he's certainly got a lot of publicity for his venue, so in that sense it's worked.

It's not true that all publicity is good publicity. I have never in my many years of dancing heard so many people make so many negative comments about an event. Those who attended will of course pass on that negative message to an exponentially greater number. I doubt that there are many people jiving at the Hippodrome tonight.

[WittyBird]

I doubt that there are many people jiving at the Hippodrome tonight.

2nd part of Spooks is on at 9pm.

[Spin dryer]

You obviously didn't speak to many then, or they were a select group. It was a free evening out at the Hippodrome. I enjoyed the experience and am grateful for the opportunity to see that the famous 'London Hippodrome' was as rough and seedy as any other nightclub.
I personally think it'll be a struggle for it to work but if it does, all well and good. I'm sure that Ceroc will benefit from younger people getting involved with partner dancing, afterall they have been trying to encourage younger members in for a while now.

I spoke to many people on the night and perhaps 25 women I danced with at Hammersmith the following evening. Not one person had anything positive to say. Incidentally Cruella, you do of course know how to stage a fantastic event (witness the Polar Freeze last year).

[Spin dryer]

I wonder it they were the same people clapping and cheering when Simon announced the Monday classes? I didn't see many people not joining in then.

The clapping could be characterised as courteous and somewhat embarrassed (even I joined in). People near to me were whooping ironically.

[Spin dryer]

Well, they were certainly serving alcohol on Friday night!

Yes, but only until midnight, which is rather unusual for club.

[David Bailey]

It's not true that all publicity is good publicity. I have never in my many years of dancing heard so many people make so many negative comments about an event.

First Chiswick at Ceroc?

Besides:
- We've only heard from about 10 people, there were 700 there.
- I know for a fact that several forumites enjoyed it but don't want to say so publicly
- The forum is so far from the Hippodrome target market, that it's like asking the W.I. their opinion of Dr Dre.

Those who attended will of course pass on that negative message to an exponentially greater number. I doubt that there are many people jiving at the Hippodrome tonight.

I'm sure we'll find out...

[Feelingpink]

...
- The forum is so far from the Hippodrome target market, that it's like asking the W.I. their opinion of Dr Dre.
...

Now look here, the WI isn't all bus pass holders, you know! The branch I belong to is comprised of 20, 30 and 40 somethings. So there! :tongue sticking out smiley:

[David Bailey]

Now look here, the WI isn't all bus pass holders, you know! The branch I belong to is comprised of 20, 30 and 40 somethings. So there! :tongue sticking out smiley:

:sigh:

My point was, the WI are not going to give a favourable impression (in public) of Dr Dre, and the Forum seems to have a similar type of young-people-going-nightclubbing-tsk attitude.

[Feelingpink]

:sigh:

My point was, the WI are not going to give a favourable impression (in public) of Dr Dre, and the Forum seems to have a similar type of young-people-going-nightclubbing-tsk attitude.

I understand your point ... but could you make it without reinforcing incorrect stereotypes please? Ta.

[Lou]

Still speculating baselessly & wildly?

So, FP - how do you feel about Dr Dre?