Simon Boreland - visionary or cynical manipulator?

[Get a grip]

Having attended SB's so called 'anniversary party' (complete with pre-printed business cards) there is no doubt in my mind which he is and frankly anyone attending with the notion that this was going to be anything other than some kind of 'business' venture needed their head testing.

Crap floor, crap music (I sincerely hope that Toby and Bunny WERE directed in what to play otherwise they have lost it) and only enough room to swing a fat Australian around by his tongue.

Of course the actual concept was not so bad and competition is IMO great for the dance world. A main London club venue that might crossover to encourage younger people to start partner dancing is an admirable vision - but why did he have to go about it in such an underhand way?

I've known SB for 2 years now and there was never any doubt in my mind where he was going to end up - his conversation often betrayed it. On arrival here he immersed himself in the dance scene and was at some points teaching 7 nights a week. The reason? Obvious... he wanted to get his name around, get visible and to start to build a data base of potential customers so that when he inevitably left the Ceroc network he could set up in immediate competition.

If Friday was a sign of things to come then we know what to expect, and certainly based on many of your comments you agree - he was dishonest, underhand and manipulative and any respect that he may have gathered for his teaching has gone out the window. IMO he does not deserve your support because by doing so you condone his actions - but then at £10 a head on Monday night in Central London we all know where this is going.

And as for the largest glitter ball in the World - well it was in evidence.... Simon Boreland in his waistcoat...

[Minnie M]

BTW There is no E in Borland

[Get a grip]

BTW There is no E in Borland

There is in my mind - because he does go on, and on, and on....

[Minnie M]

There is in my mind - because he does go on, and on, and on....

Well at least you have something in common

[Gus]

Of course the actual concept was not so bad and competition is IMO great for the dance world. A main London club venue that might crossover to encourage younger people to start partner dancing is an admirable vision - but why did he have to go about it in such an underhand way?.

If thats what it was all about ... then he's only followed the way that instructor after instructor has followed in setting up thier own venture. I'm no fan of SB but I do recognise that he has managed to promote himself as a clear brand and from that should be able to launch the new venture.

I'm not sure what the relationship is, if any, with Ceroc. If its an associated venture, then good marketing. If he's striking out alone that it oculd be seen taht he's really suckered Ceroc(tm) and they really should have seen it coming. Similar things have happened on a smaller scale up North for the last three yaers os so. Will be vaugely interested to see if/how the new venture succeeds and if/how Ceroc will seek to counter the competition (as they rarely let competition thrive ... RIP Hipsters )

[Andreas]

This thread should be moved. It has nothing to do in this category. And to be quite blunt, everybody who considered this party a free give-away without any agenda is naive, nothing more, nothing less. I could, of course, have been that SB had won lottery ...

[bigdjiver]

... (as they rarely let competition thrive ... RIP Hipsters )

So, what did Ceroc do to un-thrive Hipsters?

[Gordon J Pownall]

DJ Bunnie here, hope I am not creating a social fow par by logging in as my luverly bunnie boy gordon. Who by the way is off delivering a yacht in sunny Greece. At least I think the sun is till shining..........

You are right about Friday's music - we were given a musical remit for the night.

Don't know if anyone was there at the beginning of Ceroc, (me after reading a few archive documents from James Cronin, radio interviews and newspaper articles - because of course I was far too young to be there at the beginning, wasn't that what he wanted. A nightclub feel with partner dancing???

Me personaly, I like variety in my music. I like a real mixture of sounds, a bit of this, a bit of that, something for everyone - as like the world we live in, we all have different flavours to bring to the dance floor. The Dj's responsibility is to enable this to happen.

Happy dancing everyone, wherever that may be xx

[David Bailey]

Can't he be both?

Having attended SB's so called 'anniversary party' (complete with pre-printed business cards)

Oi! That was my sarky point, mister plagiarist you.

Of course the actual concept was not so bad and competition is IMO great for the dance world. A main London club venue that might crossover to encourage younger people to start partner dancing is an admirable vision

May I refer you to the "MJ for the club market" thread?

If Friday was a sign of things to come then we know what to expect, and certainly based on many of your comments you agree - he was dishonest, underhand and manipulative and any respect that he may have gathered for his teaching has gone out the window. IMO he does not deserve your support because by doing so you condone his actions - but then at £10 a head on Monday night in Central London we all know where this is going.

Oh come on. Yes, it was, shall we say, a little roundabout a way of launching a new venture. But it's not worth getting worked up about, is it? And that's me saying it.

If it works, it'll pull in a whole new stream of dancers. If it doesn't, we the punters won't lose any money. So where's the downside?

Anyone launching a new MJ venue should automatically be applauded by punters. Yes, of course it's done to make money - so what?

[Andy McGregor]

So, what did Ceroc do to un-thrive Hipsters?

Nothing.

Hipsters stopped because numbers dropped. And, I think, numbers dropped because they stopped listening to their customers. IMHO the Wednesdays failed because, towards the end, over half the people doing the lesson were fixed couples. My wife, Sue, wouldn't go back because she was waiting too much during the lesson, and the good guys had been grabbed to be fixed couples so the ones left in the lesson were the guys nobody wanted to be fixed couples with. And, IMHO, the Tuesdays failed because they tried to mix Lindy Hop and MJ for the freestyle.

On the subject of Simon Borland. He threw a party. It was still a party even if there are going to be classes in the same venue. He didn't trick anybody, he invited people to a party and there was a party. The fact is that most of the people who've commented didn't like the party - but it was still a party. What better place to promote your new venture than the party you're throwing in the same venue.

Please note, I don't know Simon Borland and have no opinion of him. I met him for the first time at Britrock and he was very reserved.

[David Bailey]

So, what did Ceroc do to un-thrive Hipsters?

Well, they cynically and ruthlessly set up a competitive class on the same night.

Teaching... err... ballroom dancing.

On.. err... the other side of London (about 10 miles away).

Hmmm.

OK, anyone else see the flaw in the logic here?



Hipsters failed because people didn't go, OK? Let's not look for too many conspiracy theories, hmmm?

EDIT: Hell, Andy beat me to it. OK, just assume to what he said...

[Lory]

I'm not sure what the relationship is, if any, with Ceroc.

I'd like to know this, (cos i'm nosey )

I did notice a few faces there, that are quite close to Ceroc HQ.

I wonder if they invited as a gesture of good will or as an 'up yours', look what i'm doing and right on your patch?

Did they come along in total ignorance, actually believing it was to celebrate one of 'their' teachers, teaching 250classes for them?

Or, were they there to condone the new venture?

Or, did they use the opportunity to simply to observe, with their own eyes what the competition will be and maybe even gain ideas?

[Spin dryer]

On the subject of Simon Borland. He threw a party. It was still a party even if there are going to be classes in the same venue. He didn't trick anybody, he invited people to a party and there was a party. The fact is that most of the people who've commented didn't like the party - but it was still a party. What better place to promote your new venture

Rubbish. The invitees were led to believe that they were attending a private party, albeit on a grand scale, to celebrate Borland's 250th dance lesson. Pathetically flimsy reason for a party though this would have been, it generated a great deal of enthusiasm, a heightened sense of expectation and a smattering of goodwill towards Borland. Goodwill is everything in business, and Borland threw it all away when he disclosed in the middle of his rambling soliloquy that the real motivation for the event was to launch "Jive Nation". As I mentioned in the main thread on this event, the sense of bewilderment was palpable when eveyone in the room realised they were only there so that they could be added to a mailing list.

Every single person I spoke to at the event and afterwards thought it was diabolically bad, and their negative feelings were compounded by the feeling that they had not been told what its primary purpose was. The venture is doomed to failure.

[Gus]

As I mentioned in the main thread on this event, the sense of bewilderment was palpable when eveyone in the room realised they were only there so that they could be added to a mailing list.

Urrrrr ... SURELY NOT! That would be illegal

[El Salsero Gringo]

I'd like to know this, (cos i'm nosey )

I did notice a few faces there, that are quite close to Ceroc HQ.

You mean Bradders?

I wonder if they invited as a gesture of good will or as an 'up yours', look what i'm doing and right on your patch?

Probably the former, I should think.

Did they come along in total ignorance, actually believing it was to celebrate one of 'their' teachers, teaching 250classes for them?

I doubt it. Last Thursday's email didn't leave much room for doubt. And it's been a while since Simon last taught for Ceroc.

Or, were they there to condone the new venture?

No

Or, did they use the opportunity to simply to observe, with their own eyes what the competition will be and maybe even gain ideas?

I'm amazed how conspiratorial you can make it all sound.

[stewart38]

Did people have a good time ?

[WittyBird]

There were a lot of people there. Also A lot of 'known' faces. To me it was more of a social than dance.
Does it matter if they take it to a business venture? I for one won't bother going purely because its a Monday evening in town and I can't be arsed.

I didn't bother with the class at the beginning of the evening- I hardly bothered dancing all evening either. I was happy to chat and speak to people I don't often get the opportunity to.

It was an entertaining evening when nothing else was on. I had a good one.

[Andy McGregor]

everyone in the room realised they were only there so that they could be added to a mailing list.

How would they all feel if someone told them that the only reason they're at a Ceroc class is to make money for Ceroc?

[stewart38]

Please note, I don't know Simon Borland and have no opinion of him. I met him for the first time at Britrock and he was very reserved.

I think Simon has improved dramatically over the years in teaching style and presentation. As a compare he would be good at any business function

[Heather]

How would they all feel if someone told them that the only reason they're at a Ceroc class is to make money for Ceroc?

You are so sharp, Mr McGregor, you might cut yourself!!


Heather