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Thread: Simon Borland's Party at the Hippodrome, 20/10/06

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Simon Borland's Party at the Hippodrome, 20/10/06

    Quote Originally Posted by Spin dryer View Post
    Preposterous. If someone sets up a commercial venture, then it's open to anyone to critisise it or praise it as they see fit. It's clear from his recent email that Borleland (and therefore his punters) has benefited from the feedback on this and similar threads. What is your point? Are you seriously suggesting that anyone setting up a new venture should be immune from criticism? If so, you can look forward to a world of mediocrity or worse.
    I think the point is that there was a lot of criticism, which to me at least feels a little like ingratitude, from people at the party. Reminder: free party? Free food? Free exhibitions? Hippodrome? Etc. etc.

    As far as I know, no one who's gone to any of the freestyles has had a bad word to say about them, either in private or in public. So no-one's actually criticized the commercial venture - which I agree would be justifiable. They've just "played the ball not the man", as the saying goes, talking about SB rather than about the venue.

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    Re: Simon Borland's Party at the Hippodrome, 20/10/06

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    I think the point is that there was a lot of criticism, which to me at least feels a little like ingratitude, from people at the party. Reminder: free party? Free food? Free exhibitions? Hippodrome? Etc. etc.
    That's rather silly. So throwing a free party in an expensive venue entitles one to buy off any criticism for one's new business (or at least the way one starts it...)? I know that's what people often intend, but you can't agree, surely?
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    As far as I know, no one who's gone to any of the freestyles has had a bad word to say about them, either in private or in public. So no-one's actually criticized the commercial venture - which I agree would be justifiable. They've just "played the ball not the man", as the saying goes, talking about SB rather than about the venue.
    Most of the criticism was about the party - by people who went to the party. So what's the problem?

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    Re: Simon Borland's Party at the Hippodrome, 20/10/06

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo View Post
    That's rather silly. So throwing a free party in an expensive venue entitles one to buy off any criticism for one's new business? I know that's what people often intend, but you can't agree, surely?
    There wasn't much criticism of the new business, it all seemed to be of the "violated" variety.

    Which is a shame - one could make a "business ethics" case, but not many people did, at least from memory. And I'm very much of the opinion that if some people had enjoyed the (Free Party) night more, they'd have carped less.

    (Yes, I'm whingeing about whingeing )

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo View Post
    Most of the criticism was about the party - by people who went to the party. So what's the problem?
    The problem is that I don't feel people were really supportive about the prospect of a new MJ venue - and they should be, because from a punter POV it's a good thing. My impression was that there was a lot of (typically bloody British) criticism of SB's entrepeneurship. Which winds me up.

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    Registered User senorita's Avatar
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    Re: Simon Borland's Party at the Hippodrome, 20/10/06

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    (Yes, I'm whingeing about whingeing )

    .

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    Re: Simon Borland's Party at the Hippodrome, 20/10/06

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    There wasn't much criticism of the new business, it all seemed to be of the "violated" variety.
    Not to rehash old arguments or anything, but the idea of launching a business by throwing an expensive party to buy people's gratitude just makes that feeling stronger!
    Which is a shame - one could make a "business ethics" case, but not many people did, at least from memory. And I'm very much of the opinion that if some people had enjoyed the (Free Party) night more, they'd have carped less.
    There were lots of different points raised; as you say, it's easy to conflate them all into one whinge.
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    The problem is that I don't feel people were really supportive about the prospect of a new MJ venue - and they should be, because from a punter POV it's a good thing. My impression was that there was a lot of (typically bloody British) criticism of SB's entrepeneurship. Which winds me up.
    No, I think they would have been much more supportive (the Forum's actually pretty good at that, bar one or two people) except for the way it started out, which blew that goodwill right out of the water.

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    Re: Simon Borland's Party at the Hippodrome, 20/10/06

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    (Yes, I'm whingeing about whingeing )
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    Re: Simon Borland's Party at the Hippodrome, 20/10/06

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo View Post
    No, I think they would have been much more supportive (the Forum's actually pretty good at that, bar one or two people) except for the way it started out, which blew that goodwill right out of the water.
    I tend to agree with DJ (least, I think that it was him who made the point, and I'm too lazy this morning to check) on one point. I think that if people had enjoyed themselves more - ie. better floor, better music (for their taste), more room, less lighting, whatever - then there would have been less complaints about it.

    It was the fact that people went, and didn't enjoy themselves that made them start to think about being violated. Of course, this is just supposition, since I wasn't there.

    Moral: If you're going to throw a free party and spend (presumably) a large sum of money on doing so, make sure it's a bl00dy good one, or people will moan!

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    Re: Simon Borland's Party at the Hippodrome, 20/10/06

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp View Post
    Moral: If you're going to throw a free party and spend (presumably) a large sum of money on doing so, make sure it's a bl00dy good one, or people will moan!
    That's quite true. You can't rely on the "it's free, so don't moan" defence, as this thread has quite effectively shown.

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    Re: Simon Borland's Party at the Hippodrome, 20/10/06

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
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    That's "avatar"

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    Re: Simon Borland's Party at the Hippodrome, 20/10/06

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp View Post
    It was the fact that people went, and didn't enjoy themselves that made them start to think about being violated. Of course, this is just supposition, since I wasn't there.
    Well, maybe some of the above is true BUT, I certainly wouldn't have had the cheek to moan if it was simply a private party.

    But when something turns out to be a business venture, like it or not, it DOES have a different emphasis.

    If I went round someone's house for a dinner party and the food turned out to be horrible, I would never complain or speak badly of that person, i'd simply feel grateful for being invited and appreciative of the effort that went into the evening...

    If I went to the same dinner party to celebrate the hosts 250th night being a chef at Luigi's (one of my favourite restaurants, one of which i've been a customer for years) and it turned out to be the launch of a new restaurant. I would also see that party and the poor quality of food, through more critical eyes too!
    Last edited by Lory; 1st-November-2006 at 11:12 AM.
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    Re: Simon Borland's Party at the Hippodrome, 20/10/06

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Well, maybe some of the above is true BUT, I certainly wouldn't have had the cheek to moan if it was simply a private party.
    Not disagreeing with you at all Lory.

    Just think that if everyone who went had a great time, then we'd have seen a lot less moaning about it on here. Even with there being an ulterior motive...

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    Re: Simon Borland's Party at the Hippodrome, 20/10/06

    I didn't go to the party becuase I was on holiday in Turkey.

    BUT

    I am very surprised that someone such as Simon Borland, who has such a large amount of exposure to the MJ dance scene would have done the following (based on reports on this thread),

    Invited a whole bunch of experienced dancers to an event and then overdone the invites to such an extent that most of them couldn't find enough space to dance for most of the time.

    Invited a load of experienced dancers and given them only one type of music to dance to.

    Overdone the flashing disco lights to the extent that dancers find it hard to even find their dance partner.

    Played the music way too loud so that the vast majority of people that can't be dancing because there is no space can't even socialise with each other without screaming into each others ears.

    Hire a "known name" DJ and then give them a remit. Really!! It's like booking Abba and telling them to play punk music. You might as well have just put your iPod on shuffle.


    OK. I know it is just my opinion but I regard the above as schoolboy mistakes that I just wouldn't expect someone of SB experience to have made. Whenever someone tells you that they have had a years expereince you have to work out if they have had a years expereince once, or one months experience twelve times.

    Also I am the "does what it says on the tin" kind of guy. If it is a launch party call it a launch party. If it is a celebration party call it a celebration party. If it is both then say so. It would save the embarrasing situation for some people eg - what if Mike Ellard or other senior people from the Ceroc organisation had been invited along to what they thought was a celebration party for what they thought was a milestone event in the career of one of their teachers only to find that they were at a party to be informed that said teacher was breaking away and setting up a competing event.

    My attitude would be one of "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me".
    Last edited by Chef; 1st-November-2006 at 11:27 AM. Reason: I just can't spell

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    Re: Simon Borland's Party at the Hippodrome, 20/10/06

    Quote Originally Posted by NZ Monkey View Post
    .....lots of interesting points.....
    As one of the more outspoken critique dispensers on the 'party' night I, for one, am pleased to hear the points you made.

    It sounds like a number of issues were an improvement on the first night. I doubt it will ever be my cup of tea but Im pleased to hear it was better.

    I really want to see as many people become interested in dance as possible. This venture can only be a good thing.

    Lets hope it improves week on week.

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    Re: Simon Borland's Party at the Hippodrome, 20/10/06

    Quote Originally Posted by Spin dryer View Post
    Preposterous. If someone sets up a commercial venture, then it's open to anyone to critisise it or praise it as they see fit. It's clear from his recent email that Borleland (and therefore his punters) has benefited from the feedback on this and similar threads. What is your point? Are you seriously suggesting that anyone setting up a new venture should be immune from criticism? If so, you can look forward to a world of mediocrity or worse.
    I think there is a big difference between saying I heard 3rd hand only 10 people went and saying I went and thought the dance floor was to slippery etc

    Maybe just me

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    Re: Simon Borland's Party at the Hippodrome, 20/10/06

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef View Post
    Invited a whole bunch of experienced dancers to an event and then overdone the invites to such an extent that most of them couldn't find enough space to dance for most of the time.
    From my nosing around, the breakdown of the attendance was either 400 dancers and 300 non dancers OR 500/200. Comments need to take this into account as it is obvious from either of those figures that there were a significant number of attendees with no MJ dance background at all and that a night run purely for MJ dancers would have gone really pear shaped with a LOT of people. I guess you could say that Simon has a world outside of MJ and wanted to invite 'normal' people ;-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef View Post
    Overdone the flashing disco lights to the extent that dancers find it hard to even find their dance partner.
    Ummm, it was in a nightclub, so I guess there was no choice but to make it like a nightclub. Turning a fantastic nightclub into a town hall would be pretty stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef View Post
    Played the music way too loud so that the vast majority of people that can't be dancing because there is no space can't even socialise with each other without screaming into each others ears.
    Having the music too loud is a real problem, be it for the MJ's or the non-MJ's. I can't say I noticed that the music was too loud at the time, though the classic "My bloody ears are ringing" did happen after leaving.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef View Post
    Hire a "known name" DJ and then give them a remit. Really!! It's like booking Abba and telling them to play punk music. You might as well have just put your iPod on shuffle.
    Whilst I appreciate that there are other more qulified than I to answer the DJ remit question, my understanding is that the DJ's were given a list of music NOT to play. A very subtle difference that telling a DJ what TO play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef View Post
    Also I am the "does what it says on the tin" kind of guy. If it is a launch party call it a launch party. If it is a celebration party call it a celebration party. If it is both then say so.
    I have no evidence one way or another for what I say next, but why does nobody consider the possibility that the party just took off way more than expected? I've had small parties in the past that just got mobbed. Whilst it is easy to accuse somebody of pre-mediation after the fact, what about the accusation of taking advantage of a snowballing situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef View Post
    what if Mike Ellard or other senior people from the Ceroc organisation had been invited along to what they thought was a celebration party for what they thought was a milestone event in the career of one of their teachers only to find that they were at a party to be informed that said teacher was breaking away and setting up a competing event.
    From what has been said here and from what I've found out and saw on the night, the top brass at Ceroc were invited and Dave Bradly did attend. What they thought of the whole thing I cannot say as I don't know.

    Also, Simon was not one of their teachers in October, he hasn't been teaching a regular venue since the end of July. He did formally quit and from what I can tell, left on good terms (why else would Ceroc ask him to teach lessons at Camber) and without making a song and dance about his reasons for leaving.

    As for being invited to something for free and then finding out that the reason was underhand, I recently found out why Ceroc keep sending me emails for 'free' entries. Apparently, I have two Ceroc cards, the one I use all the time and one that I must have been issued one time when I had forgotten my regular card. Turns out that something to do with Ceroc being a private members club and that they need to keep their records up-to-date. Sending me an email with a free entry allows them to know if I am an active member or not and allows them to get more up-to-date information from me. I don't call that cynical, I call that a clever way to keep their records current.

    And finally, phew, I really must stop jumping around these subjects, but I don't post often and sometime I have a lot to say ;-) On the question of free entries, I noticed that there are an awfull lot of free entries going around for Ceroc venues right now. Ish being one of them and now the O2 centre. Call me cynical, but isn't Ish Simons old venue? Isn't the 02 Centre on a Monday night and therefore the closet venue and competitor to JXXX NXXX at The Hippodrome? What other Monday night Ceroc venues are there and are people being sent free entries to them?

    I guess a response was called for from Ceroc and hopefully this is just that, a subtle one with no fuss or muss. However, could this not be a response at all to JXXX NXXXX, but only a way to prop up attendance at two venues with falling numbers....... ;-)

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    Re: Simon Borland's Party at the Hippodrome, 20/10/06

    Quote Originally Posted by cerebus636 View Post
    Whilst I appreciate that there are other more qulified than I to answer the DJ remit question, my understanding is that the DJ's were given a list of music NOT to play. A very subtle difference that telling a DJ what TO play.
    Well. That depends on just how extensive the list of what not to play is! Once you've eliminated everything else, then there is only one thing left to play!

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    Re: Simon Borland's Party at the Hippodrome, 20/10/06

    Quote Originally Posted by cerebus636 View Post
    Ummm, it was in a nightclub, so I guess there was no choice but to make it like a nightclub. Turning a fantastic nightclub into a town hall would be pretty stupid.
    Err, except that the lights weren't flashy the last two Mondays...

    Quote Originally Posted by cerebus636 View Post
    I have no evidence one way or another for what I say next, but why does nobody consider the possibility that the party just took off way more than expected?
    Hey, even I'm not that gullible...

    Quote Originally Posted by cerebus636 View Post
    And finally, phew, I really must stop jumping around these subjects, but I don't post often and sometime I have a lot to say ;-) On the question of free entries, I noticed that there are an awfull lot of free entries going around for Ceroc venues right now. Ish being one of them and now the O2 centre. Call me cynical, but isn't Ish Simons old venue? Isn't the 02 Centre on a Monday night and therefore the closet venue and competitor to JXXX NXXX at The Hippodrome? What other Monday night Ceroc venues are there and are people being sent free entries to them?
    Finchley (or perhaps I should call it Fxxxxxxx ) - no free entries there AFAIK.

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    Re: Simon Borland's Party at the Hippodrome, 20/10/06

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Err, except that the lights weren't flashy the last two Mondays..
    The lights were a lot less flashy on the Friday after I spoke to the lighting guy and told him that the strobe-lights were doing everyone's head in, and could he please not use them any more. Sometimes you only need to ask.

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    Re: Simon Borland's Party at the Hippodrome, 20/10/06

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Finchley (or perhaps I should call it Fxxxxxxx ) - no free entries there AFAIK.
    You couldn't pay people to go there!

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    Re: Simon Borland's Party at the Hippodrome, 20/10/06

    I note cerebrus636 that you joined the forum in October 2006 and that your few postings are dedicated to the adulation of a certain Mr Boreland. Are you in fact the very same Mr Boreland?

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