What moves feel natural to follow?

[David Bailey]

{ snip lots of stuff }

I have a theory (which may be wrong) that each lady has a ‘signature move’ that they never mess up and when they dance it they ‘light up’.

Some truth in this - I'd say several "signature moves" rather than one, but I think the principle's sound. Different women have different preferences and styles; no surprise there.

However, I'm not sure if there's any commonality - there's no "perfect move" which will be smooth (or "serene" for everyone)... Hmmm, maybe the sway and the (man) comb will be - simply because they're so basic you can adjust them to any situation to make them feel good?

[DavidB]

If women were easy to please, they would be called men.

But as they are women, you have to face facts - you will never please every woman all the time with the same moves. If you manage to please any woman at least once with a move it can count as a success.

You already know this by understanding that some women love certain moves. Instead of thinking about what other moves they might like, start figuring out what it is about that move they like.

Sometimes it is easy. Some girls love multiple spins (this is known as having an Australian accent). Others love drops (an Australian accent and strong arms), or to improvise (answers to the name Wendy). But if she says her favourite move is the First Move, you have several options. Does she like the simplicity, or the close hold, or the lack of spinning for 4 counts, or the possibility of variations? You now have a map for your dance - try a few simple moves, then a few close moves, etc. See which she likes.

The hardest part about this is knowing what she likes. Being a woman, she won't tell you. You are just expected to know. You can ask about her favourite move, and after that you have to watch her when you lead her. Being a woman, she will give hints as to what she doesn't like. It becomes a process of elimination (just like marriage).

You can also get hints by asking what music they like. The more specific they are, the more they will like certain types of moves. Finally watch them dancing with other men. See what gets a reaction, and what she looks good doing.

All this involves remembering what each lady likes, and it is impossible to do this with everyone you dance with. Personally I only do this with a handful of ladies. But I am a man, and I am supposed to know nothing about what women want, so it doesn't really matter.

David

[Will]

If women were easy to please, they would be called men.

Was ever a truer word spoken?

[Bex]

If women were easy to please, they would be called men.

What a load of old tosh!!!

Don't think you'll be pleasing too many ladies with that comment Mr B, and as for you Wilma!

[Bex]

Have been thinking for a while about what moves feel natural to follow and when teaching, I only teach moves that are leadable in freestyle for the guy (doesn't seem much point otherwise). However, there are a few moves that are the exception when the footwork is choreographed and can only be done with partners that you dance with a lot etc.

Anyway, thinking about the dances I enjoy most aren't necessarily with dancers that lead me through complex moves, but moves that fit well with the music we're dancing to. Sometimes the moves can be extremely simple, but if they guy is listening to the music and puts in moves that flow with that music its great (ie. a columbian or mambo walks would feel crap if you were dancing to a fast swing track ).

[Ghost]

Some truth in this - I'd say several "signature moves" rather than one, but I think the principle's sound.

That's the next evolution of my theory - I think you're right it is several moves.

However, I'm not sure if there's any commonality - there's no "perfect move" which will be smooth (or "serene" for everyone)...

You may well be right. I was once told that the only stupid question is the one you don't ask.

Happy to know either way though

Hmmm, maybe the sway and the (man) comb will be - simply because they're so basic you can adjust them to any situation to make them feel good?

Could be. No ladies have yet said that sways don't feel natural to them. In fact so far there's consensus that they do

Could of course just be coincidence. But that's why I asked. Frankly if there's even one move that a lot of women feel has a feeling, then this whole thread is worthwhile.

And if there's not, it's still worth knowing that rather than guessing.

Take care,
Christopher

[David Bailey]

Frankly if there's even one move that a lot of women feel has a feeling, then this whole thread is worthwhile.

I'd go with the sway then, I can't remember anyone ever saying anything bad about it...

[LMC]

... Frankly if there's even one move that a lot of women feel has a feeling, then this whole thread is worthwhile.

Oh, that's easy - anything with hairpulling

[Ghost]

it's about matching the move's timing to your partner's timing and the music.

In terms of motion I agree.

You can make any move a lady's "wow!" move if you get it to match her movements & what she is moving to in the music.

I'm really not disagreeing with this.

I only danced moves that resonated with them and gradually built up the resonance of energy within the dance

I'm saying there's another aspect to it.

Take care,
Christopher

[Ghost]

I'd go with the sway then, I can't remember anyone ever saying anything bad about it...

Oh, that's easy - anything with hairpulling

It's like buses - you wait and then two come along at once

Anyone else want to kick in other suggestions.
Probably worth noting ladies that one day I or another forumite might use this info in a dance with you.

Be Well,
Christopher

[Ghost]

But as they are women, you have to face facts - you will never please every woman all the time with the same moves. If you manage to please any woman at least once with a move it can count as a success.

It's all good, I'll take what I can get

All this involves remembering what each lady likes, and it is impossible to do this with everyone you dance with.

Possibly I'm insane, but I'm developing a freestyle, on-the-fly version of this for dancing with ladies I don't know / remember.

You can also get hints by asking what music they like. The more specific they are, the more they will like certain types of moves.

How do they react to the idea of dancing to a specific song? Do they sing along to it? Do they say "This is tune too slow"?

How do they take my hand? How much tension, how far does their arm extend. As I walk with them onto the dance floor how far away from me are they? Where's their centre of motion? How in balance are they? What are they wearing? Bold and brassy, soft and feminine, sexy as all get out? Are they in heels or flats? Trousers or dress? How is it moving with them as they walk? Are they strutting and owning the floor already or walking softly. Are they in step with me or out of sync? Do they lead me into the middle of the dance floor or do they let me lead them? Do they wait while I centre myself or just go for it? Are they paying attention to the surroundings, other dancers? What vibe do I get from them? How far away from me have they chosen to stand as a starting position? Are they stationary or bouncing around?

I start leading moves - how do they react? Do they light up to a specific move. Why?

and after that you have to watch her when you lead her. Being a woman, she will give hints as to what she doesn't like. It becomes a process of elimination (just like marriage).

Sometimes it is easy. Some girls love multiple spins (this is known as having an Australian accent). Others love drops (an Australian accent and strong arms), or to improvise (answers to the name Wendy). But if she says her favourite move is the First Move, you have several options. Does she like the simplicity, or the close hold, or the lack of spinning for 4 counts, or the possibility of variations? You now have a map for your dance - try a few simple moves, then a few close moves, etc. See which she likes.

Does a specific move take them out of the moment? Do they have problems with spinning, balance, tension?

How do they move?

it's about matching the move's timing to your partner's timing and the music.
You can make any move a lady's "wow!" move if you get it to match her movements & what she is moving to in the music.

How hard, soft, fast, slow? Where's she moving from? How big are the motions? Linear, circular? Sharp, stacatto, graceful and flowy? How much room would suit her? And what space will just drown her? Is she moving her hands, hips, shoulders? Do I mirror the movements and style or contrast? What's the natural ebbs and flows? What works, what doesn't? Wildcards? Is she aware of the music? Does she like it? Why? What aspects? Is she dancing to the beat, interpretting, playing?

Finally watch them dancing with other men. See what gets a reaction, and what she looks good doing.

I'm watching her dance with me. How cool did that move look? Does she realise? Can I accentuate her strengths and compensate / avoid her weaknesses. What's her expression? Did she smile? Did her eyes smile?

Throughout the whole thing - how does it feel?

So if the sway lets me get a step up in the proceedings then

Thanks,
Christopher

[LMC]

Bloody hell, and I get told *I* think too much

What moves feel natural to follow?

It depends on the music.
It depends on the partner.

Sometimes, only one of these things matters. Sometimes neither matter.

I'm a woman, I'm inconsistent, so sue me.

[Trish]

So to any ladies who lead ladies - what moves do you favour?

If last night was anything to go by, then doubles!

First move, basket teapot, yo-yo, american spin, man spin, simon's comb with downwards bodywave, showy seducers with a throw change entry, showy seducers with multiple assisted spin entry (I'm evil ), the astaire, the ginger, laybacks, baskets, manhattans (mambo walks), any kind of over the head comb, squeezebox, shiners, the wurlitzer (wahoo!)....

mostly beginner and intermediate moves with advanced drops just depends on the size of the woman I'm dancing with.. If they're small/same size as I am then the swanlift is fun cos it catches them completely by surprise.... *evil laugh*

one move I can't lead as a man though is a sway...

I'm with Anna on most of these, but don't know the ones I've highlighted above - any help there Anna? I also like doing drops on girls as long as they're not too much bigger than me (difficult, as I'm only 5ft 3!). Added to this list, I like leading sways, and any sway variation (eg, turning into a sway for the lead), pretzel walkrounds (actually any walkrounds), and any moves that surprise the girl (this is often what really make them like the dance, a bit of a surprise ). A move that I do where you turn the girl double handed, and then turn yourself, and repeat, and then reverse the turns seems to be popular with a lot of girls - don't know what it's called though. I'm sure someone told me it was called a washing machine, but then that's probably some dangerous lift instead !

Still say the reason girls look good leading (if they do) is more to do with the fact they are trying really hard to keep the lead steady and not to yank, as they know how uncomfortable this is, rather than their choice of moves - but I guess you do lead the moves you like.

Edit - highlighting didn't work, hope it worked this time - otherwise I'll write a list tomorrow, I'm off home now.

[Ghost]

Bloody hell, and I get told *I* think too much

And that was the short version. There's a lot more

But it's like anything; gradually you don't have to think, it becomes natural. Like checking your mirrors when driving.

What moves feel natural to follow?

It depends on the music.
It depends on the partner.

Sometimes, only one of these things matters. Sometimes neither matter.

I'm a woman, I'm inconsistent, so sue me.

I'd rather dance with you

Take care,
Christopher

[Ghost]

Still say the reason girls look good leading (if they do) is more to do with the fact they are trying really hard to keep the lead steady and not to yank, as they know how uncomfortable this is, rather than their choice of moves

Wouldn't argue with that. And again useful to know it's a priority - and I've got to say, it seems to work really well.

but I guess you do lead the moves you like.

Human nature I guess. Makes sense.

Thanks for the other suggestions

Be Well,
Christopher

[Anna]

Ah, I too am 5 ft 3 - the best people always are

I'm with Anna on most of these, but don't know the ones I've highlighted above - any help there Anna? ....

simon's comb with a downwards bodywave... umm its that funny looking comb.. man's left hand, ladies right and to get it over his head the lead has to bend their arm at the elbow to 90 degrees and slot the space between the arms over his head? The bodywave is just styling, as the hand comes over the head, you begin a downwards body ripple...

the astaire.. throw change entry, against the man's right side, facing the same way as him and a little lean sideways.. or a big one if ur name is Steve

the ginger.. throw change entry, against the man's right side but facing the opposite way and a little lean sideways.. often ended with a seducer.

laybacks... closed hold, man's right leg between the woman's legs and she sits down on it and leans backwards..

squeezebox... this is that move you see people who can't actually dance doing when they are trying to "dance".. double hand hold, come up to right of your partner, step away, come up to the left of your partner, step away, etc etc..

shiners.. like the wurlitzer but after the first signal, the man turns through on the slot and they swap sides.. and then 2nd signal and the woman does it..

A move that I do where you turn the girl double handed, and then turn yourself, and repeat, and then reverse the turns seems to be popular with a lot of girls - don't know what it's called though. I'm sure someone told me it was called a washing machine, but then that's probably some dangerous lift instead !

That's called a rollercoaster

Still say the reason girls look good leading (if they do) is more to do with the fact they are trying really hard to keep the lead steady and not to yank, as they know how uncomfortable this is, rather than their choice of moves - but I guess you do lead the moves you like.

Pretty much.. although I lead seducers and laybacks because I like them.. and walk arounds cos I like them.. and bodywaves cos I like them.. and if a Ceroc song that's also a Merengue ever comes on... oOoOo.. I like leading Merengue

Also, I try to encorporate musicality into my leading, especially if I know the song because I know that when I dance as a woman..I luuuurve a lead with good musicality, hitting the pauses and strikes feels SO good. So as a lead I try to do that too

[Andreas]

Still say the reason girls look good leading (if they do) is more to do with the fact they are trying really hard to keep the lead steady and not to yank, as they know how uncomfortable this is, rather than their choice of moves - but I guess you do lead the moves you like.

At the risk of getting shot down in flames, I should say that I have yet to see a girl that looks good leading. And I mean it. I have not seen a single woman, apart from my ballroom teacher, where I came even close to the impression that she led naturally. It always looked 'forced'. Forced is not to be understood as yanking in general, but at least I could always note the pause it took them to actually come up with a move. It just never looked naturally.

In you defense I have to say that I also have not seen a lot of guys following and still looking good at doing so. In fact, I have only seen one that could give most girls a run for their money. ... At least that is the impression when you see it. When you dance with him it is a bit different

[Anna]

In you defense I have to say that I also have not seen a lot of guys following and still looking good at doing so. In fact, I have only seen one that could give most girls a run for their money. ... At least that is the impression when you see it. When you dance with him it is a bit different

Is that Paul Te Whata you mean there?

Yeah he's awesome.. Gino isn't bad either. Speaking of which, both of them have just moved to Dubai for a spell. - Just a bit of NZ dance scene gossip for ya

[Andreas]

Is that Paul Te Whata you mean there?

Yeah he's awesome.. Gino isn't bad either. Speaking of which, both of them have just moved to Dubai for a spell. - Just a bit of NZ dance scene gossip for ya

Ta

Yup, it is Paul. Gino anticipates even more, which makes it quite a mission to lead him. So I would not class him anywhere near as good a follower as Paul. He also is too sharp for my liking. As you know, I like the followers to have some DEPTH in their motion, not rush through a move and then wait for the music to catch up

[Anna]

Ta

Yup, it is Paul. Gino anticipates even more, which makes it quite a mission to lead him. So I would not class him anywhere near as good a follower as Paul. He also is too sharp for my liking. As you know, I like the followers to have some DEPTH in their motion, not rush through a move and then wait for the music to catch up

So THAT'S why you always told me to slow my returns down...

It all makes sense now

and I've been doing it too! Blues is good for that sort of thing - you don't dance to the music, you dance inside it !