View Full Version : Progressive dancing - help!
David Bailey
15th-October-2006, 08:40 PM
Trying my third tango of the evening last night, I think I've cracked why I'm having a problem with milongas (freestyles to you plebs :na: ).
The problem is the other dancers.
I'm just not used to this whole line of dance / progressive dance thing, it's contrary to the way I've danced for the past 15 years and it's throwing me. Big time. I can't get the hang of keeping in synch with the general progression, and I end up just walking, out of desperation. And then walking out, in desperation :(
(And yes, I know Walking Is Fine, but that's not what I want to do)
So, any tips? Are other progressive dances the same as AT this way? Do other people have the same level of anxiety about this, or is it just me?
Lynn
15th-October-2006, 10:16 PM
Only encountered a problem with this once, when my lead didn't seem to be aware of the other dancers in the milonga and kept crashing me into people. An unpleasant experience - and he seemed somewhat surprised when I thanked him at the end of the dance (and didn't stay for a second) but I wasn't going to get injured.
So I guess its something for leaders, us followers don't have to worry too much about it - well we can't really as we're going backwards so we have to trust the leader! But I think its an important skill in AT - just as much as getting all the other things right. Being able to progress round the room, safely, and find the gaps in which to do more interesting things. And like anything in tango it just takes time and practice to get the hang of it.
One suggestion might be if you have a partner to practice with, put some chairs round a room and try to navigate round them. That way you get used to having to move around stationary obstacles, before trying to move round other dancers - might be a useful in between stage?
Gadget
15th-October-2006, 10:32 PM
Do you mean moving round the floor? I do that on occasion :innocent: but not normally at the same rate as everyone else*
{being that I only do MJ, that would mean taking more than four steps is progression ;)}
*edit* from Lynn's post, I'll assume that's what you're talking about. I try and put some progression type move into most of my dances; I would recommend getting a basic frame connection and simply burling round the room. Stop before you hit folk, change direction to go through gaps, ... great fun :D
The other thing I sometimes do :devil: is pick someone fairly near that seems to have a bit of space round them, and circle them. Makes them nervous :D:devil:
Must be said that I'm probably one of the few people who actually travels while dancing- mostly it gets a positive response (...although sometimes the term "rollercoaster" is used, and I'm not sure if that's positive or negative :what: )
Lynn
15th-October-2006, 10:37 PM
And try to find less crowded milongas to go to maybe? The most popular ones are great, good buzz, lots of amazing dancers to watch - but that also means when you venture onto the floor you have a lot more dancers around you, doing flashier moves. That's going to be distracting and make it harder for you to find space to do things, and therefore make you even more frustrated.
David Bailey
15th-October-2006, 10:54 PM
*edit* from Lynn's post, I'll assume that's what you're talking about. I try and put some progression type move into most of my dances; I would recommend getting a basic frame connection and simply burling round the room. Stop before you hit folk, change direction to go through gaps, ... great fun :D
Yeah... Not really sure if that'll go down too well at a milonga, call me crazy on that one.
To clarify, the AT culture is very strong on the "line of dance" thing - ie. everyone travels around the floor at roughly the same speed, and people keep their place in the line (well, the circle). Going too fast / slow is just Not Done.
And, I'm having problems with that. The AT itself is coming along OK, I think - it's just the Line Of Dance stuff that's a problem. I can't dance AT and keep to the line at the same time. And trying just p1sses me off, as my partner for Santa Maria last night will attest.
I know - practice, practice, and yes, find spacious venues.
But are there any tips or tricks that people can recommend? Maybe from progressive ballroom dancing?
Gadget
15th-October-2006, 11:09 PM
OK - do you rotate as you go round, or just turn at the corners?
MartinHarper
15th-October-2006, 11:29 PM
The AT culture is very strong on the "line of dance" thing - ie. everyone travels around the floor at roughly the same speed, and people keep their place in the line (well, the circle).
No overtaking? I thought the whole point of doing a progressive dance was being able to overtake/undertake people and generally cut them up. All the fun of the motorway, but with music.
Lynn
15th-October-2006, 11:30 PM
OK - do you rotate as you go round, or just turn at the corners?Well you can do a giro (turn) or part turn moves, but you need to move back into the line of dance - everyone goes the same way (anti-clockwise) round the room - and yes you turn at corners.
No overtaking? I thought the whole point of doing a progressive dance was being able to overtake/undertake people and generally cut them up. All the fun of the motorway, but with music.Overtaking is allowed, at least I've danced with leaders who have done so. It depends on what space is available - eg you can't move round a couple to overtake them if there is another couple beside you moving at the same speed.
David Bailey
15th-October-2006, 11:35 PM
OK - do you rotate as you go round, or just turn at the corners?
Corners, mainly.
I'm not worried about the navigation, I can just about shuffle around a room. I just can't seem to get into the "progression" mindset, where I have to keep my place in line :sad:
David Bailey
15th-October-2006, 11:37 PM
No overtaking? I thought the whole point of doing a progressive dance was being able to overtake/undertake people and generally cut them up. All the fun of the motorway, but with music.
I think that's seriously frowned-on, at least in AT - unless of course the couple in front of you has stopped, in which case you can overtake and give them a dirty look or whatever.
You can get "inner" and "outer" circles, of course, but I believe individual overtaking is a no-no.
Lynn
15th-October-2006, 11:44 PM
I think that's seriously frowned-on, at least in AT - unless of course the couple in front of you has stopped, in which case you can overtake and give them a dirty look or whatever.But even then it might not be possible if there isn't a gap - then you have to stop and do something - fortunately there is a good choice of things to do.
I never pay too much attention to be honest, what with mostly having my eyes closed when dancing AT.
Gadget
16th-October-2006, 12:06 AM
Corners, mainly.
I'm not worried about the navigation, I can just about shuffle around a room. I just can't seem to get into the "progression" mindset, where I have to keep my place in line :sad:
I would immagine it would be like space opening just infront of you all the time and dancers crowding your back all the time: can't you treat it like that? Or do you want to predict more than the next 'step' ahead?
(I thought that there was a lot of room for expression and playing with timeing in AT - how can you do that if you are stuck to a regular progression?)
spindr
16th-October-2006, 12:48 AM
Some very very rusty rememberances, so caveat lector.
Don't just "walk", WALK!
Listen to the music - take small steps for the quiet short notes, larger steps for the creschendos, etc. Syncopate the walk to match syncopations in the music.
Taking small steps probably means that the gap in front will get bigger, so that you can then take bigger ones.
You can walk outside of the follower -- on both sides.
You can walk inline.
You can walk inline but on opposite feet -- think three-legged race.
You can take large steps, this will close the gap to the partners in front.
You can stop when there is no gap in front.
You can take steps side left / side right.
You can slide.
You can drag.
You can invite your follower to point a foot (without weight) and then come back to the original position -- basically fake a step forwards / to the side by moving your chest, but leaving your feet as they were.
You can hug.
You can lower the left-to-right dancehold, e.g. down to a "blues" hold -- this is a nice way to "disengage" at the end of the dance -- with a very slow gradual definite lowering of the hands.
*If* the couple in front have been holding you (and the rest of the room) in a traffic jam -- you can politely tap the leader on the shoulder, as a hint.
SpinDr
P.S. Then there's ochos and all that complicated stuff.
David Bailey
17th-October-2006, 09:00 AM
{ snip good advice }
P.S. Then there's ochos and all that complicated stuff.
Ochos are easy - it's the keeping in line that throws me.
I guess I'm mainly looking for a set of "mindset" ideas, I need to just get my head round the idea of dancing in progression, and it's a new experience to me. I think if I can get the hang of that, I'll be OK at milongas.
Must think progressive, must think progressive, must think progressive....
ducasi
17th-October-2006, 09:12 AM
Is the secret just dancing more steps in one direction than the other? :)
clevedonboy
17th-October-2006, 09:34 AM
You'll have this one - beginners ballroom classes. Specifically Social Foxtrot & Waltz - you just spend the first few weeks going around the room - no worries about corner steps or fancy stuff just navigation.
Tessalicious
17th-October-2006, 09:55 AM
You can drive, right? So you know how to balance getting where you want to go with not getting in anyone else's way (too much)? Well there you go, easy :na:
Seriously, keep your eyes up (I know you're s'posed to be all enclosed with your partner but while you're still learning progressive floorcraft that's a bad idea) so you can make sure you're keeping a good distance from the next couple in front. Use walking with big steps when you feel you're dropping behind, and do some on-the-spot stuff when you're too close.
Also, don't be afraid to ask your partner (especially if she's an understanding also-not-quite-beginner) to keep *her* eyes up so she can indicate to you if a crash is about to occur.
You might also want to try working on making your tango more progressive at MJ dances too - there's no-one to force you into a specific rate of progression but plenty of moving objects to avoid and you can get used to not just using the space you were allocated at the beginning of the dance.
Oh and corners? Just 'bend' your steps for whatever pattern you're in or even when you're walking so you do a curve rather than a corner. Otherwise it gets way too complicated.
David Bailey
17th-October-2006, 10:22 AM
You might also want to try working on making your tango more progressive at MJ dances too - there's no-one to force you into a specific rate of progression but plenty of moving objects to avoid and you can get used to not just using the space you were allocated at the beginning of the dance.
Tried that at Chiswick on Saturday - it went horribly wrong, hence this crie-de-coeur whatsit.
I think I just need to psych myself into the right mindset. The "non-progressive / progressive" difference is a serious divide, especially if you've been used to dancing on the spot for, well, ever.
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