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SeriouslyAddicted
11th-October-2006, 01:45 PM
Ok guys I need your help. I have danced once or twice as the lead, but only ever with one of my girl friends that I know would not criticise me, but last night I lead a man - a very bizarrre experience, but I found it very helpful and he gave me some quite useful pointers but I want more! I am going dancing tonight and think I might brave taking the lead in the beginners class but it would be really good to get some pointers. Also it would be interesting to know what blokes feel about a woman taking the lead (in dancing before any of you get carried away ;) ). Would you let a woman lead you?

TheTramp
11th-October-2006, 01:50 PM
Would I let a woman lead me? Of course* (see you at Camber next month!).

But, having said that, I see from another thread that you've only been dancing since March!

I've seen a fair few people (of both sex), who try to take on the other role before they are well versed in doing the one. And end up not being able to do either particularly well.

My advice would be to stay as a follow, until you have a fair mastery of that (you may already of course!). It's only fairly recently that more people are learning both roles.






*Especially if it's "astray"

Dazzler
11th-October-2006, 01:51 PM
I have recently ventured to the darkside of being led!...i find its good fun (but i definately need alot more practice at it!) but am happy to let the woman take the lead if she wants...it is about fun after all! :respect:

Sparkles
11th-October-2006, 02:33 PM
There are plenty of things to consider if you want to learn how to lead (careful you don't get information overload), and in some ways you'll be advantaged as being a follower first makes sure you know what *won't* work...
... I've been leading for a long time, but I still try and stick to simple moves and not be too adventurous (it's better to lead a few things well than to lead a lot of complicated things badly).

I agree with The Tramp though - take your time with the following, develop that as well as you can and have the leading as something you 'dip into' every now and then :flower:

MartinHarper
11th-October-2006, 02:34 PM
Would you let a woman lead you?

Absolutely. Following is more fun.


I've seen a fair few people (of both sex), who try to take on the other role before they are well versed in doing the one. And end up not being able to do either particularly well.

I'd treat it the same as learning another dance soon after starting to learn MJ. There's likely to be a period of confusion where one's dancing isn't improving as quickly as you might like. Once you get past that, I've not seen anyone ending up with bad habits as a result.

Spending ages doing a single role before switching has its own difficulties - there are quite a few experienced MJ men who've posted claiming that they are unable to learn following, and my guess is this is partly because they've left it so late. Again, that's the same pattern I see in folks who dance only MJ for a decade before trying Lindy: there can be a lot of initial frustration in unlearning habits that are good in MJ but bad in Lindy. Branching out earlier seems to lead to a dancing style that is compatible with both dances, or in this case compatible with both leading and following.

Groovemeister
11th-October-2006, 03:34 PM
I follow as well as lead my normal partner we normally change when we do an Octopus. I normally call for her to take the lead so that I am not fitting her when we come out of the move.

I love doing it at appropriate moments it really adds a little extra.

It is difficult for a women to lead a man though from the physical aspect. A man can normally get a women to turn or move in to position from physically moving them this is obviously far more difficult for a woman to do to a man.

Ghost
11th-October-2006, 03:35 PM
Would you let a woman lead you?
It's been known to happen :whistle:

From a guy's perspective being led by a woman

(Ok if you're one of the lovely ladies who leads me, um well obviously none of the critical stuff applies to you, but don't read any more ok? :flower: )

It's deceptive how much force you can get into a move, especially when it goes wrong :tears: I've come sickenly close to having both my shoulder and wrist dislocated :blush: (both Non-forumites)

You will probably need to be more aware of the height difference and how it affects moves if you're shorter than the guy.

When guys are starting to follow, on the whole they seem to have trouble doing one of the turns (I think it's ACW). It also took me a while to get the hang of floorcraft from a follow's perspective.

Signals are a pain - they take me from "don't think, flow" to "what does that mean again?"

I have no problem whatsoever being led through 57 consecutive first moves.

If you want to stand still and think about your next move, that's fine too

If you want to ask "How do I do this move?", it's best to move over to the edge of the dance-floor

Women break most of the rules of ettiquette we're supposed to follow :na:


Having said all that...it's something I profoundly enjoy and I'm blessed to know truly lovely ladies who lead me to heaven and back :awe: :respect: .

Dance in beauty,
Christopher

Dynamo
11th-October-2006, 04:17 PM
I follow as well as lead my normal partner ....

I love doing it at appropriate moments it really adds a little extra.

It is difficult for a women to lead a man though from the physical aspect. ....

I am very lucky as my Lady :D has led some from day 1, often commenced by spinning me out of a move and taking the lead as i stop my spin.


Absolutely. Following is more fun.

I'd treat it the same as learning another dance soon after starting to learn MJ. There's likely to be a period of confusion where one's dancing isn't improving as quickly as you might like. Once you get past that, I've not seen anyone ending up with bad habits as a result.

Spending ages doing a single role before switching has its own difficulties - ...partly because they've left it so late. ...Branching out earlier seems to lead to a dancing style that is compatible with both dances, or in this case compatible with both leading and following.

Huge respect to you Martin :respect: you add to a dance as a follower. I have dabbled over the years and am now learning more now. So agree your comments


Would I let a woman lead me? Of course* (see you at Camber next month!).

But, having said that, I see from another thread that you've only been dancing since March!

I've seen a fair few people (of both sex), who try to take on the other role before they are well versed in doing the one. And end up not being able to do either particularly well.

My advice would be to stay as a follow, until you have a fair mastery of that (you may already of course!). It's only fairly recently that more people are learning both roles.

*Especially if it's "astray"

:respect: I agree Trampy, be comfortable with one before other, my 1st lesson with swapped roles gave me insights that helped my lead :D but a further 2 years before I started to really learn to follow, still a novice here though :worthy:


Ok guys I need your help. I have danced once or twice as the lead......
I might brave taking the lead in the beginners class but it would be really good to get some pointers....
Would you let a woman lead you?

Yes I would let a woman lead, some friends have used a sabotage to take the lead, like reverse spin out of a 1st move. :waycool:


It's been known to happen :whistle:

From a guy's perspective being led by a woman

(Ok if you're one of the lovely ladies who leads me, um well obviously none of the critical stuff applies to you, but don't read any more ok? :flower: )

It's deceptive how much force you can get into a move, especially when it goes wrong :tears: I've come sickenly close to having both my shoulder and wrist dislocated :blush: (both Non-forumites)

You will probably need to be more aware of the height difference and how it affects moves if you're shorter than the guy.

When guys are starting to follow, on the whole they seem to have trouble doing one of the turns (I think it's ACW). It also took me a while to get the hang of floorcraft from a follow's perspective.

Signals are a pain - they take me from "don't think, flow" to "what does that mean again?"

....

Women break most of the rules of ettiquette we're supposed to follow :na:


Having said all that...it's something I profoundly enjoy and I'm blessed to know truly lovely ladies who lead me to heaven and back :awe: :respect: .

Dance in beauty,
Christopher

So much respect for you Ghost, sharing lead and follow is a wonderful experience. :D

Good luck on your 1st beguiners class.

I prefer an early prepare with a gentle lead :D when i am led, but that is what i do for my followers in return :D

Blueshoes
11th-October-2006, 04:26 PM
This is something I've never really thought about, though at a workshop at the weekend my lady partner tried spinning me multiple times to see how I'd like it. :sick: :sick: :sick:

When I've demoed, occasionally the lady teacher has led me to see how to explain the move from the man's perspective, it always felt totally alien to me.

BUT.... after reading this thread I think I'll give it a go and do some simple moves with my dance partner tonight. :what:

CentrAlex
11th-October-2006, 04:39 PM
Ok guys I need your help. I have danced once or twice as the lead, but only ever with one of my girl friends that I know would not criticise me, but last night I lead a man - a very bizarrre experience, but I found it very helpful and he gave me some quite useful pointers but I want more! I am going dancing tonight and think I might brave taking the lead in the beginners class but it would be really good to get some pointers. Also it would be interesting to know what blokes feel about a woman taking the lead (in dancing before any of you get carried away ;) ). Would you let a woman lead you?

Hey...I love being lead. I have a few girlie friends who always lead me around the floor and we have a right laugh with it. Try the beginners class and master them first before trying out the intermediate moves though!


Would I let a woman lead me? Of course* (see you at Camber next month!).

But, having said that, I see from another thread that you've only been dancing since March!

I've seen a fair few people (of both sex), who try to take on the other role before they are well versed in doing the one. And end up not being able to do either particularly well.

My advice would be to stay as a follow, until you have a fair mastery of that (you may already of course!). It's only fairly recently that more people are learning both roles.

*Especially if it's "astray"

On the contrary to this, I think that knowing both roles really improves you as a dancer, if you understand what the guys and the girls have to do...it can only improve you...since learning the followers role, I feel like my dancing has really improved and from a teachers perspective, I find it easier to give the ladies of the class tips on their dancing as well as the guys now because understand what they should be doing...but as I said...don't jump in the deep end and try the beginners out first...freestyle as a leader and follower so you can craftily pick up tips from other guys whilst you are following and put them into practice while you are leading...

I am relatively new to the forum so if I can find out who you are or vice versa then I will have a dance with you leading if you like...I will be at camber in November x

Hope I helped

Laterz Taterz! :D

SeriouslyAddicted
11th-October-2006, 05:02 PM
Thanks guys you have all been really helpful. I am pretty comfortable following so think I will brave it tonight although just for the beginners class - not sure I am up to freestyling yet - so thanks for the offer CentrAlex but if I see you at Camber I shall expect to be lead around the dance floor by you rather than the other way round. By the way if you look at page 648 of the Singletons Sofa you'll see a picture of me there, although I hasten to add not in my usual attire. I am the redhead 2nd from the left.

See you in Camber

TheTramp
11th-October-2006, 05:06 PM
On the contrary to this, I think that knowing both roles really improves you as a dancer, if you understand what the guys and the girls have to do...it can only improve you...since learning the followers role, I feel like my dancing has really improved and from a teachers perspective, I find it easier to give the ladies of the class tips on their dancing as well as the guys now because understand what they should be doing...but as I said...don't jump in the deep end and try the beginners out first...freestyle as a leader and follower so you can craftily pick up tips from other guys whilst you are following and put them into practice while you are leading...

Oh. Absolutely. I've been following now for a few years. And yes, no doubt that it's beneficial. However, you are a case in point. You learnt to lead for some time, before you started to follow. I was probably one of the first guys to ask you to dance, and at that point, you'd already won a showcase competition at Blackpool as I recall.

I've seen a good number of people try to learn the second skill before they really have got the first under their belt. And they end up being not very good at either. Of course, it's a bit of horses for courses. Even though SA has only been dancing for 7 months, she might be a natural, and already be a great follower.

Of course, she might not be. I'll look forward to finding out at Camber next month... :flower:

Ghost
11th-October-2006, 05:20 PM
Thanks guys you have all been really helpful. I am pretty comfortable following so think I will brave it tonight although just for the beginners class
One other thing some of the women on here have mentioned in the past. You may get some women in the beginners class who aren't comfortable being led by a woman. It's nothing personal.

:flower:
Christopher

Blueshoes
11th-October-2006, 05:26 PM
One other thing some of the women on here have mentioned in the past. You may get some women in the beginners class who aren't comfortable being led by a woman. It's nothing personal.



You'd get a lot more complaints if a bloke went in the beginners class as a follower.... :rolleyes:

Nessiemonster
11th-October-2006, 08:34 PM
I have recently ventured to the darkside of being led!...i find its good fun (but i definately need alot more practice at it!) but am happy to let the woman take the lead if she wants...it is about fun after all! :respect:

But you're so much better than the first time you tried it... :grin: I seem to recall much :rofl: from everyone concerned! I think we managed about 2 moves?! You managed a whole dance with Night Owl last week! :clap:

I started leading earlier this year, after a class with very few men when Trampy came to teach, and he made a comment very audible to the entire class about why wasn't I leading yet? :blush: My plans to start leading the following week were scuppered when I ended up demoing with him instead! :) It took me a while to pluck up the courage to give it a go, but I'm no longer terrified, and actually seem to manage quite well most of the time. I have stopped leading in the intermediate class though, since they started getting a bit more bluesy - not good with that with other women! :blush: :eek:

I've found that following helps my leading, and leading has definitely also helped my following (and knowing how important it is Not to anticipate - the lead needs the feedback as to what works and what doesn't!) :)

Tazmanian Devil
11th-October-2006, 10:16 PM
Thanks guys you have all been really helpful. I am pretty comfortable following so think I will brave it tonight although just for the beginners class - not sure I am up to freestyling yet - so thanks for the offer CentrAlex but if I see you at Camber I shall expect to be lead around the dance floor by you rather than the other way round. By the way if you look at page 648 of the Singletons Sofa you'll see a picture of me there, although I hasten to add not in my usual attire. I am the redhead 2nd from the left.

See you in Camber

See here (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showpost.php?p=289429&postcount=12947) for pic

SeriouslyAddicted
12th-October-2006, 08:33 AM
Thanks for all of your insights. I did brave it and for what it is worth I got some lovely compliments from both the women that I was leading and from the men that I normally dance with who were suprised to see me leading and only too pleased to help. I was quite concerned about how women might take to being lead by another woman, particularly the experienced dancers but they were all really encouraging and actually quite pleased seeings as there were about 30 more women than guys.

See you all at Camber!

killingtime
12th-October-2006, 01:19 PM
Also it would be interesting to know what blokes feel about a woman taking the lead (in dancing before any of you get carried away ;) ). Would you let a woman lead you?

I'm all for women leading me. I don't mind if she wants to lead the whole dance or just steal a bit of it though with the latter the flow of the dance can be killed during that whole bit where someone tries to take back the lead or the other attempts to give it back. I find following interesting and fun and I've been lead by some fantastic female leads (as well as some fantastic male ones).


Hey...I love being lead. I have a few girlie friends who always lead me around the floor and we have a right laugh with it. Try the beginners class and master them first before trying out the intermediate moves though!

I'd recommend that too just like I'd recommend it to a man who was learning to lead.


I think that knowing both roles really improves you as a dancer, if you understand what the guys and the girls have to do...it can only improve you...since learning the followers role

I do agree with this but I would say that having only one of the roles to do means you can focus and specialise more in that role. If you do both roles from the start you'll probably find that you won't advance as much in either role as someone who focus just on the one (makes sense as you are dividing your time). I find following a benefit to my lead and useful to see how other leaders do a move but if I've added up the amount of dances I've followed in it probably adds up to a couple of nights of freestyle.


You'd get a lot more complaints if a bloke went in the beginners class as a follower.... :rolleyes:

Yup. I have no doubt the venue manager would probably stop you. I'm sure a lot of blokes wouldn't be bothered by it but there is probably a good number that would be entirely mortified by it.

I did do a class as a follower for a while but that was a sort of fixed partners women leading men following row (we rotated between each other).

TurboTomato
12th-October-2006, 02:53 PM
Also it would be interesting to know what blokes feel about a woman taking the lead (in dancing before any of you get carried away ;) ). Would you let a woman lead you?

Emma (taxi) made me dance as a lady once :eek: I got very dizzy, very quickly :na:

Genie
12th-October-2006, 03:44 PM
I have to agree with what's been said so far. I don't feel comfortable enough as a follow to want to ruin it by learning to lead, so despite wishing I could, I won't. Freya on the other hand leads me all the time and I really enjoy it. I think some people benefit from learning the other side of the dance, but only when they have 'conquered' their own side.

Nessiemonster
13th-October-2006, 10:16 AM
There were rather too few guys at the class in Inverness last night, so I lead in both beginners and intermediate. I've led in intermediate before, but stopped because I didn't feel so comfortable doing some of the slower, more bluesy moves with other women. Last night's moves were fine.

At the end of the intermediate class I got the best compliment possible by the last two women I danced with, both of whom told me I was better than the guys!!! :clap: Did my ego the world of good! :whistle:

(Sorry guys, if there's any of you forumites who were there...!)

Lee Bartholomew
13th-November-2006, 07:50 PM
Your doing fine at taking the lead. I just need to learn how to follow. Will have to show you how to do the swan and the pack pass/flip thingy as the lead with me following. lol

Problem is it's all backwards and upside down.

Really aching after Camber. Think its going to be a few weeks before I recover.

SeriouslyAddicted
13th-November-2006, 10:10 PM
Your doing fine at taking the lead. I just need to learn how to follow. Will have to show you how to do the swan and the pack pass/flip thingy as the lead with me following. lol


Maybe not!! But did have a laugh trying to dance with you with me leading - not sure who was worse. We might need to work on that one!

Lee Bartholomew
13th-November-2006, 10:22 PM
Maybe not!! But did have a laugh trying to dance with you with me leading - not sure who was worse. We might need to work on that one!


You were worse :-P

TurboTomato
13th-November-2006, 10:34 PM
You were worse :-P

lol :D

Lee Bartholomew
13th-November-2006, 10:41 PM
Taking a following role is hard esp when you have do0ne lead for such along time. Would recomend any bloke serious about dancing to do it though.

"sometimes its hard to be a woman" so the song goes.

Jamie
14th-November-2006, 12:17 AM
I let anyone lead me, man or woman, as many found out at Camber. I found Taz to be a good female lead, very strong, and taught me a rly good move that I liked!

I think the best thing I ever did was learn to follow 1 or 2 months after I started learning to lead.. Took me a good 6 months to learn and I think I do pretty well, it helps being small framed aswell because then anyone can stick you into drops (or arials - thanks Steve... :rolleyes:)

I think when you've learned to lead and follow, your dancing improves dramatically.. Most people can't believe I've been dancing since march (altho people have tried to blame it on genes!!) so it must do something for your dancing.

robd
14th-November-2006, 02:37 PM
I think the best thing I ever did was learn to follow 1 or 2 months after I started learning to lead.. Took me a good 6 months to learn and I think I do pretty well, it helps being small framed aswell because then anyone can stick you into drops (or arials - thanks Steve... :rolleyes:)

I think when you've learned to lead and follow, your dancing improves dramatically.. Most people can't believe I've been dancing since march (altho people have tried to blame it on genes!!) so it must do something for your dancing.

Not sure I agree with all that Jamie but I will say that the thing that impressed me most about your following was your feel for the music. I think that must have helped you to develop so well in such a short space of time. I'll say less about your feel for other things (like WB's crotch :what: )

killingtime
14th-November-2006, 04:13 PM
I think the best thing I ever did was learn to follow 1 or 2 months after I started learning to lead.. Took me a good 6 months to learn and I think I do pretty well, it helps being small framed aswell because then anyone can stick you into drops (or arials - thanks Steve... :rolleyes:)

If, by Steve, you are talking about Trampy he put me into an aerial and I'm, by no means, small framed. He's a strong guy with a great centre of balance that guy...

Jamie
14th-November-2006, 04:56 PM
If, by Steve, you are talking about Trampy he put me into an aerial and I'm, by no means, small framed. He's a strong guy with a great centre of balance that guy...

Strong isn't the word... Must admit I was impressed when he did a quadruple seducer, four ladies all in a seducer in his ONE arm.. LOL. :eek:

Lee Bartholomew
14th-November-2006, 05:07 PM
He is a big bloke. First time I saw him this weekend.

Was really impressed by the way he was able to move and Spin.

WittyBird
14th-November-2006, 07:11 PM
I'll say less about your feel for other things (like WB's crotch :what: )

Oh you saw that :whistle:

SeriouslyAddicted
14th-November-2006, 08:07 PM
"sometimes its hard to be a woman" so the song goes.

Make sure you don't foget it next time you try and throw me over your shoulder or somewhere equally as scary!!:sick:

BTW I can lead others OK - so must be your follow :yum:

Lee Bartholomew
14th-November-2006, 08:13 PM
Don't know what you mean lol.

Not going to get a chance to this week as you aren't at High Rocks tonight, Im not at Salomons tomorrow and am demo'ing on Thurs.

Think it is my follow. Need to practice.