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NZ Monkey
11th-October-2006, 12:49 PM
We all know that it’s much easier to complain about what we don’t like rather than praise what we do, and this thread:this thread (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9832) (please forgive the lack of a neatly laid out hyperlink) has gotten me thinking a little more about some of the things I like and dislike about Ceroc in the UK.

My dislikes are fairly well documented on this board now, but I haven’t really put a lot of effort into pointing out the things that I like about the way things work here in the UK. For that matter, I can’t recall many instances where anyone else has said anything similar about other countries they’ve spent any time dancing in, or the dancers there either.

We have plenty of people with considerable international experience here, so lets hear what it is you’ve liked about the social scene, the teaching or organisation of Ceroc in foreign countries (whatever ‘’foreign’’ may be to you :wink:). Andreas, Trampy, PJay, Gus and everyone else who I don’t know but has spent much time overseas, this is your call to arms!

To start the ball rolling, these are the things I like especially like about Ceroc in the UK:

Party Nights
There are a lot of people in London. There are a lot of party nights in London. I can guarantee that if I choose to go to one there will be few people I know (and like :devil: ) and plenty of people I don’t (don’t know that is :innocent:). There’s something extra nice about clicking with someone you’ve never met before on the dance floor and the sheer number of people dancing here makes that a more common experience.

Musical Range
I will be the first to admit that I didn’t listen too much to the music when I was dancing in NZ, but I’m convinced that there is a wider range of music played here. At the very least, there are a few DJ’s with sufficiently different musical tastes doing the circuit that it seems that way. Of course, perhaps I was too busy just trying to keep on the beat when I home…..

Fluidity
No, I’m not talking about dancing smoothly. I’m talking about the free movement of people between venues and areas. Folk in the UK seem much more willing to travel long distances to get to a venue, party, or workshop than Kiwis are in general. I’m always amazed at how many people have travelled hours to get to where they want to dance. Hell, I’ve even met a bunch of Scottish dancers on their various southern adventures in the last couple of months. It’s nice to know that there will always be a few friendly faces at the other end of the island when I eventually make it up there. :D

Taxi Dancers
What can I say? I might have started freestyling a litte earlier if I'd had one of these.

So, what about the rest of you?

Caro
11th-October-2006, 02:35 PM
might be a bit off topic here but... when you move to a country where MJ (yet Ceroc) just doesn't exist, you realise how lucky you are to only have the very possibility of dancing every week: a venue, a DJ, a teacher, and other dancers...
God I have been here (Africa that is) for less than 2 weeks and I am already craving for a dance. :sad:

Right now I envy you so much guys for being able to complain about a sticky floor, a weird set of music, and even having your arm yanked by a couple of rough beginners... :really: :eek:

Happy dancing :flower:

Chef
11th-October-2006, 02:58 PM
Right now I envy you so much guys for being able to complain about a sticky floor, a weird set of music, and even having your arm yanked by a couple of rough beginners... :really: :eek:


Let me know when you are coming back. I know just the place for you. You will be amazed just how fast that feeling of envy will wear off.

Caro
11th-October-2006, 04:01 PM
Let me know when you are coming back. I know just the place for you. You will be amazed just how fast that feeling of envy will wear off.

:rofl: yeah I'm sure I'll be fast to complain again :blush: ... I guess being far away just made me realise how much my focus has changed in life since I started dancing...

SteveK
11th-October-2006, 10:11 PM
We all know that it’s much easier to complain about what we don’t like rather than praise what we do, and this thread:this thread (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9832) (please forgive the lack of a neatly laid out hyperlink) has gotten me thinking a little more about some of the things I like and dislike about Ceroc in the UK.

My dislikes are fairly well documented on this board now, but I haven’t really put a lot of effort into pointing out the things that I like about the way things work here in the UK. For that matter, I can’t recall many instances where anyone else has said anything similar about other countries they’ve spent any time dancing in, or the dancers there either.

We have plenty of people with considerable international experience here, so lets hear what it is you’ve liked about the social scene, the teaching or organisation of Ceroc in foreign countries (whatever ‘’foreign’’ may be to you :wink:). Andreas, Trampy, PJay, Gus and everyone else who I don’t know but has spent much time overseas, this is your call to arms!



Without wishing to hijack this thread, I'd be really interested to find out how they do Ceroc/Modern Jive in other countries. I'm leaving in a month for a two year secondment to Brisbane, Australia and would love to know what I should expect/how I should behave.

I'm aware from comments on this forum that the accepted behaviour in Oz/NZ is to dance two dances with every partner. Also the list of standard moves is slightly different? Would I be correct in thinking that there seems to be more of an emphasis on learning routines, and less of an emphasis on freestyles? Or am I mistaken?

Any advice of what to expect when I arrive in Brisbane would be greatly appreciated! :)

Andreas
11th-October-2006, 11:23 PM
Being currently back in NZ, I have had a few experiences to both extends, positive and negative, in comparison to the UK.

What I really liked, and still do, when I came to London was the 'dancing' compared to 'performing' in NZ. Social dancing in the UK is done at a significantly lower level of difficulty than in NZ. That means there is more time to interact with your partner and less of a risk of getting hurt. Coming back to NZ now, I feel this hasn't changed much. A lot of people still are performing on a social dance floor, doing quite difficult moves and not care about musical interpretation. Having said that, I have had terrific dances while over here.

What I disliked, and still do, is that, because nobody teaches more complex moves in the UK to a regular client base, I had to cut down on what I do on the dance floor considerably. That means a lot of the more difficult moves either slipped my mind or just didn't get practiced sufficiently. So being back in NZ provides me with a great opportunity to toss in all these moves that have been dormant for a long time. Having had lots of time to work on musicla interpretation in the UK, due to simpler moves, I believe that now even the more difficult moves are being used more appropriately and fit in better. So essentially the disadvantages of UK MJ turned out to be advantageous for my dancing. Can't complain.


As for venues, I like the large choice and variety in London. Mind you, I have possibly more places to go to in NZ because I know my way around better, know where bands are playing etc. But what was possibly the greatest pro for London is the fact that I can turn up at some of the events and nobody will actually know me. This anonymity is something that at least on the northern North Island of NZ is a luxury I haven't had in years. So thumbs up for London.


In terms of music the UK has the better end of the stick. I know where to go in NZ to find music that I like but simply turning up at any event will possibly have a greater chance of resulting in musicla disappointment than in the UK. There is generally too much disco being played down under.


Regarding moving around, I am and have been travelling a lot further in NZ for dance events than I do in the UK. But that is just me, I know plenty of people who go well out of their way for a nights dancing. This could and probably will have to do with the fact that in NZ I simply have to have a car to get around, whereas in London a car is a liability that only shows its advantages on weekends.

:flower:

TheTramp
12th-October-2006, 12:41 AM
I'm aware from comments on this forum that the accepted behaviour in Oz/NZ is to dance two dances with every partner. Also the list of standard moves is slightly different? Would I be correct in thinking that there seems to be more of an emphasis on learning routines, and less of an emphasis on freestyles? Or am I mistaken?

Any advice of what to expect when I arrive in Brisbane would be greatly appreciated! :)

Ummm. I danced one dance with most people there. It didn't seem to be a problem.

There is a greater emphasis on learning routines all over Australia, but you can quite easily avoid that if you want. The classes taught are generally much more difficult than you'd find on a standard class night over here. Last time (a year ago) I saw an intermediate class taught in Brisbane, it had one baby aerial, and 2 dips in it - the beginners class will also include many more moves than a beginners class will here. The classes also tend to run for longer, with beginner classes routinely taking about an hour, and at least 45 minutes for an intermediate class. Unless I'm teaching them! :whistle:

The music will generally (all over Australia) have less variety than you'll find over here, with more of a modern feel to it.

The classes to go to in Brisbane are run by LeStep - http://www.lestep.com.au - and there's an offshoot, LeStep on the Coast (Gold Coast). You want to make sure that you get down to the Coast, and dance with Holly & Emma (my DWAS partner in Sydney) who are both fantastic dancers. Say hello to them from me :D

Hope this helps. And I'll probably see you there next summer (well, winter!).

Yliander
12th-October-2006, 12:48 AM
Without wishing to hijack this thread, I'd be really interested to find out how they do Ceroc/Modern Jive in other countries. I'm leaving in a month for a two year secondment to Brisbane, Australia and would love to know what I should expect/how I should behave.

I'm aware from comments on this forum that the accepted behaviour in Oz/NZ is to dance two dances with every partner. Also the list of standard moves is slightly different? Would I be correct in thinking that there seems to be more of an emphasis on learning routines, and less of an emphasis on freestyles? Or am I mistaken? IMO you would be mistaken. in Aus you will find that there are many more opportunites to do team routines - but a social class focus is about teaching you some new moves and the techniques to do them with plenty of freestyle time.

I have never danced in Brisbane - but having danced in Perth, Melb, Sydney & Adelaide - you may find that what is taught in intermediate is rather more complex than what is generally taught in an intermediate class here. I'm not sure about Brisbane but in Sydney & Melbouren there is also the opportunity to do advanced level classes as well on certain nights.


Any advice of what to expect when I arrive in Brisbane would be greatly appreciated! :)nice social classes with lots of fun dances :D for dancing in Brisbane check out LeSteps website (http://www.lestep.com.au)

I'm sure you will have a blast dancing in brisbane - a very cheerful bunch of people - must be all that balmly weather

TheTramp
12th-October-2006, 12:53 AM
I've enjoyed dancing and teaching in all of the countries I've been to. Have been all over both Oz and NZ, to pretty much all of the main centres of MJ.

I'd pretty much agree with everything that Andreas has said already, so I won't bother repeating it. Although, I would say that I disagree with Andreas, and prefer the classes over here being more accessible to the general populace, without the more complex moves being taught on a regular basis. The age range of dancers in the main cities in both NZ and Oz is much lower, and as Andreas says, they do teach much harder classes on a general basis. And then they wonder why there's less people doing MJ over there than there is here :whistle:

The music is definitely better over here - at least in most of the places where I've danced. They don't have DJs over there, so quite often the freestyle music is a CD or minidisc, or an Ipod on shuffle - unless the teacher is also interested in doing the music. It does tend to be more modern, and also much more "thump thump". Although, I think that is slowly changing (for the better, although, that's just my subjective view) - Adam in Wellington, and Debster in Christchurch are adopting a much more UK method there (generally, not just the music though). A lot of the companies in Oz have got their hands on more of the variety of music that we have in the UK, but are slow in changing over to playing it.

Just because of the demographics of the country, the dancing is a lot more regional, and as Andreas says, you can put in some serious mileage in order to go dancing if you don't just dance at your local venue(s). Though, I drive about 20,000 miles a year travelling to dancing in the UK! And then there's the occasional flight as well.

This is a bit of an overview of both countries, as I think that they're pretty similar. Except that they do more aerials in Oz! :rolleyes:

TheTramp
12th-October-2006, 12:54 AM
Stuff

Too late! :yum: :flower:

NZ Monkey
12th-October-2006, 09:19 AM
{stuff about how Trampy thinks the music is better in the UK, how he considers it to be less accessable to the general population...etc in NZ/Oz}

So, Trampy.... was there *anything* about the dancing in NZ or Oz that you especially liked then? That was sort of the point of the thread after all.... :flower:

TheTramp
12th-October-2006, 09:45 AM
So, Trampy.... was there *anything* about the dancing in NZ or Oz that you especially liked then? That was sort of the point of the thread after all.... :flower:

I actually find it quite difficult to pick out things that I especially like (or dislike), because it's as difficult to answer as the other question that I get asked a lot when I'm over there.....

"Is the dancing better here than in the UK"?

Of course, it's impossible to answer this - "which bit of the UK did you want me to compare it with", is my usual answer. Or "were you thinking of anyone specifically"? There are good dancers in NZ and Oz. And there are bad dancers too. The same applies to the UK.

I doubt whether there are many people who have been to as many different places in NZ, Oz and the UK as I have. And there are some good things going on in all of the places, and maybe some not so good things. So to make a comparison between the countries is not easy. For example, a couple of places down under do an intromediate class, which I think is a good thing. However, the majority don't. So to say that Oz is good for that, wouldn't really be right.

Most places I went to down under have taxi dancers (by any other name), doing the same sort of thing that they do in this country, so I was a little surprised to read that in your post. A lot of people travel the distances for things like weekenders and competitions down under as well, as well as for smaller events - for example, lots of people from Adelaide went to the CMJ "Dance Mania" weekend in Sydney. At the comp in Brisbane, there were big Perth, Melbourne and Sydney contingents. In NZ, a lot of people from Queenstown came to Dunedin for the workshop I taught there. I met someone from Wellington in Christchurch; the following week, I met someone from Christchurch in Wellington! Yet you seem to think that people in the UK travel more :confused:

I know I'm sitting on the fence here. Sorry! :rolleyes:

I did start off by saying that I enjoyed dancing at all the places I've been to. As for specifics, the best thing that I can say is that a lot of the people I danced with were great.

NZ Monkey
12th-October-2006, 10:17 AM
Most places I went to down under have taxi dancers (by any other name), doing the same sort of thing that they do in this country, so I was a little surprised to read that in your post. A lot of people travel the distances for things like weekenders and competitions down under as well, as well as for smaller events - for example, lots of people from Adelaide went to the CMJ "Dance Mania" weekend in Sydney. At the comp in Brisbane, there were big Perth, Melbourne and Sydney contingents. In NZ, a lot of people from Queenstown came to Dunedin for the workshop I taught there. I met someone from Wellington in Christchurch; the following week, I met someone from Christchurch in Wellington! Yet you seem to think that people in the UK travel more Yeah, perhaps I should have been more specific...

What I mean by people travelling more here is that they seem to travel more just for a night of freestyle. Specialist workshops are rare enough that I can understand people travelling long distances for, especially when they are taken by international names. Weekenders are big events as well, were the travelling time is considerably less than the time you'll spend on the floor (unless you're flying in from the UK - but I understand you were teaching in DM so you don't count :yum: ).

It's more the fact that if someone in NZ drove a total of three hours in a night for three hours of freestyle or a class at a local venue, most people would consider them mad. It isn't *that* uncommon here in London from what I can tell though.

We didn’t have taxi’s in Lorne St, Auckland or any of the other venues I’d visited in Auckland. I’d never heard of them before I came here. :confused:


I actually find it quite difficult to pick out things that I especially like (or dislike), because it's as difficult to answer as the other question that I get asked a lot when I'm over there.....

"Is the dancing better here than in the UK"?

Of course, it's impossible to answer this - "which bit of the UK did you want me to compare it with", is my usual answer. Or "were you thinking of anyone specifically"? There are good dancers in NZ and Oz. And there are bad dancers too. The same applies to the UK.

I doubt whether there are many people who have been to as many different places in NZ, Oz and the UK as I have. And there are some good things going on in all of the places, and maybe some not so good things. So to make a comparison between the countries is not easy. For example, a couple of places down under do an intromediate class, which I think is a good thing. However, the majority don't. So to say that Oz is good for that, wouldn't really be right.Well, it did seem pretty easy for you to pick out the things you liked about the UK scene. In this case music (which is ''definitely better'' :devil: ) and accessibility. I was just hoping you could be more specific about the other places as well.

I'm not really trying to box you in specifically, just provoke a bit more thought in what people have enjoyed overseas. It does help to have lived somewhere else for a long time when making calls like this of course :flower:

Oh, and I know you said Andreas summed it up pretty well so you're mostly off the hook. I just wanted to hear you add something that wasn't balanced finely on those white picket thingies :wink:

TheTramp
12th-October-2006, 10:36 AM
What I mean by people travelling more here is that they seem to travel more just for a night of freestyle.

It's more the fact that if someone in NZ drove a total of three hours in a night for three hours of freestyle or a class at a local venue, most people would consider them mad. It isn't *that* uncommon here in London from what I can tell though.

We didn’t have taxi’s in Lorne St, Auckland or any of the other venues I’d visited in Auckland. I’d never heard of them before I came here. :confused:

Ummm. Well, like I said, I met someone in Wellington from Christchurch one week, and vice versa the next. At the normal class night. Went to a freestyle dance in Pukekohe, and there was a crowd of people there from Hamilton. I know a couple of people from Auckland who drove down to Taupo for a dance night. I accept that you were there for a lot longer than me though. Maybe I just found all the mad people in one go! :wink:

They definitely have taxi's now in Christchurch, Hamilton and Wellington. I'm fairly sure that they have them in Dunedin too. Let's face it though, in Lorne St, you couldn't fit a sparrow's fart into that room on a class night, let alone some taxi-dancers! :whistle:


Well, it did seem pretty easy for you to pick out the things you liked about the UK scene. In this case music (which is ''definitely better'' :devil: ) and accessibility. I was just hoping you could be more specific about the other places as well.

I'm not really trying to box you in specifically, just provoke a bit more thought in what people have enjoyed overseas. It does help to have lived somewhere else for a long time when making calls like this of course :flower:

Hmmm. Maybe I should have used the words "definitely different". There will be plenty of people (from the UK as well!) who prefer the music generally played at down under venues. The constant pop thing just isn't to my taste though. And there's plenty of venues in the UK who do that sort of thing. We're just lucky here in Scotland with DJs like Tiggerbabe, Dance Demon and CJ.

As for the demographics thing, I don't count that as either better or worse. it's just the way it is, the population density being that much higher in this country than it is over there.

I guess the biggest thing I enjoy about travelling around is meeting new people, and dancing with some great dancers who I only get to see when I'm travelling. That's still not really a comment on overseas either though. Sorry :flower:

David Bailey
12th-October-2006, 11:43 AM
Good thread.


It's more the fact that if someone in NZ drove a total of three hours in a night for three hours of freestyle or a class at a local venue, most people would consider them mad. It isn't *that* uncommon here in London from what I can tell though.

No, I think most people in London would still consider them mad.

You're maybe confusing "the average forumite" with "the average London dancer". Easily done, of course, this being the London forum and all... :whistle: