Split forums?

[David Bailey]

Inspired by:

I try to treat this as a group of forums. The singletons sofa as one I never read. Chit-chat I tend to try and avoid. I ocasionally make some some small effort to try and keep small-talk out of topics that actually might have some significance for the development of the dance. The exodus of serious posters and the absence of most people of influence shows how unsuccessful I and others have been.
Do people think it's worth considering separate forums?

It does look like there's a lot of separate grouping going on at the moment...

[Ghost]

Inspired by:

Do people think it's worth considering separate forums?

It does look like there's a lot of separate grouping going on at the moment...
It's effectively happened already. I post mostly 'serious' stuff at the MJDA Forum and mostly 'chat' here. I don't know what style the Australian Forum uses. I know from various comments I've heard that the MJDA Forum is too dry for some and they prefer their technical discussions interspersed with a bit of banter. I can see the appeal of both.

I do like the idea of serious dance discussions in Flash Chat though....

Be Well,
Christopher

[ducasi]

Do people think it's worth considering separate forums?
Nope.

That's one of the great things about this forum – fun stuff with serious discussion all in the same place.

[TheTramp]

Nope.

That's one of the great things about this forum – fun stuff with serious discussion all in the same place.

:yeah:

[David Bailey]

Nope.

That's one of the great things about this forum – fun stuff with serious discussion all in the same place.
Where is this serious discussion of which you speak? :confused:

[Lynn]

Do people think it's worth considering separate forums?No, its nice to have some chat and some serious discussion with the same people. Each person posts as per what they want from the forum and it works for them.

Plus of course - look at how often a dance discussion ends up totally derailed into who is going where/'funny' :rolleyes: insults or just general chat. Unless you have some serious moderation going on, that would happen with any 'separate' forum. (The tango threads seem to be generally immune from this, probably because anyone not actually wanting to read about or discuss tango simply can't be bothered to wade through all the long 'leading the cross' etc discussions.)

[Juju]

I'm getting a serious case of deja vu reading this thread - especially the quote from bigdjiver: "The exodus of serious posters and the absence of most people of influence shows how unsuccessful I and others have been."

Until not that long ago I was a prolific poster on a society-based website - (top poster for 2002 :blush: ) - and one of the main subjects which kept the darn thing going was precisely the discussion you all seem to be recreating here.

Based on my experience of that site I reckon that what you have here is just fine. Really. You have a forum which covers a broad range of (mainly dance-related) subjects, all nicely packaged in convenient little bundles so you can pick and choose as you please. What purpose would it serve to split it all into separate forums? It doesn't seem broke to me, so why fix it?

[azande]

We could have a scottish one and and an english one... :whistle:

[Ghost]

We could have a scottish one and and an english one... :whistle:

But then the Scottish one would keep stealing our female forumites.....

[Lynn]

Based on my experience of that site I reckon that what you have here is just fine. Really. You have a forum which covers a broad range of (mainly dance-related) subjects, all nicely packaged in convenient little bundles so you can pick and choose as you please. What purpose would it serve to split it all into separate forums? It doesn't seem broke to me, so why fix it?I'm not advocating a split forum - but to explain where some of thinking is from. Its not that its broken, its just changed, shifted in focus and some people aren't comfortable with that.

I myself can only speak for the past 3 years. Yes there have always been chat and dance topics, and yes there was healthy 'debate' and 'discussion' on some of those.

But attempts at dance discussions more frequently turn into chat threads. Some people's contributions at serious discussion on a dance subject have been mocked for no good reason. The result has been that a certain people have either left/stopped adding anything useful to dance threads (even though they had very interesting and helpful things to say in the past)/only post on limited threads/just post a lot less.

I found this forum as a beginner dancer of about 6 weeks. I learnt a lot through interesting discussions and helpful threads. There are now a lot more posts on here than there were then, but you have to work much harder at finding useful dance related discussions.

[ducasi]

Do "serious" dance threads still get side-tracked into chat as much these days?

[Lynn]

Do "serious" dance threads still get side-tracked into chat as much these days?I don't know, I'm not analysing it that much. I just know that many times I've gone back to see whats happening on a dance thread I've been following to discover its become 'you gonna be at X next week/I like dancing with you/some 'funny' wisecrack' - often from posters who weren't actually contributing much to the actual dance discussion part of the thread.* I've no idea the frequency of such occurances.

*I don't mind these sorts of posts in chit chat threads at all.

[ducasi]

Ok... I haven't noticed it so much myself recently, but maybe I just let it all wash over me... :)

With an increased posting rate I wonder if there has been an actual decrease in quality dance-related posts, or whether it's just a percentage thing...

Not expecting an answer to this one, just thinking out loud... :)

[Lynn]

Ok... I haven't noticed it so much myself recently, but maybe I just let it all wash over me... :) Could be that some folk are making an attempt to 'grow' any new dance discussions and keep them on topic? I know that if a newbie starts a dance thread I make an effort to say something relevant on the subject to encourage them.

[Ghost]

Could be that some folk are making an attempt to 'grow' any new dance discussions and keep them on topic? I know that if a newbie starts a dance thread I make an effort to say something relevant on the subject to encourage them.

A while back I randomly chose a serious thread and looked at the ratio of serious to chat.

Just looking at
"The one most important factor in teaching?" from the Int section

I'd say about half of it is chat arguing about what the question means, how many question marks are necessary, Drathzel being female etc and half is actually serious about the question.

Could be an anomaly I suppose. It's more of 2:1 ratio of serious : chat on this thread (so far)

Be Well,
Christopher

[Lynn]

A while back I randomly chose a serious thread and looked at the ratio of serious to chat.

Just looking at
"The one most important factor in teaching?" from the Int section

I'd say about half of it is chat arguing about what the question means, how many question marks are necessary, Drathzel being female etc and half is actually serious about the question.

Could be an anomaly I suppose. It's more of 2:1 ratio of serious : chat on this thread (so far)
I'd still regard that as a serious discussion thread. A bit banter along the way is fine. That's not really what I was referring to, I meant threads where the chat becomes what the thread is now about and people stop actually posting about the topic of discussion.

[TheTramp]

A while back I randomly chose a serious thread and looked at the ratio of serious to chat.

That thread was meant to be serious?

Sorry. Didn't realise! :innocent:

[CJ]

I'm not advocating a split forum - but to explain where some of thinking is from. Its not that its broken, its just changed, shifted in focus and some people aren't comfortable with that.

I myself can only speak for the past 3 years. Yes there have always been chat and dance topics, and yes there was healthy 'debate' and 'discussion' on some of those.

But attempts at dance discussions more frequently turn into chat threads. Some people's contributions at serious discussion on a dance subject have been mocked for no good reason. The result has been that a certain people have either left/stopped adding anything useful to dance threads (even though they had very interesting and helpful things to say in the past)/only post on limited threads/just post a lot less.

I found this forum as a beginner dancer of about 6 weeks. I learnt a lot through interesting discussions and helpful threads. There are now a lot more posts on here than there were then, but you have to work much harder at finding useful dance related discussions.

Lynn,

this post might have been more helpful with examples. (Examples would name and shame also without one individual having to do so.)

Part of the problem is that there are less and less dance topics left that haven't been covered at some point. So, older forumites might not have anything left that they feel they have to contribute as they feel they've already discussed said topic in depth.

It's up to us to sort it. We each get out of it, what we put in.

I think it's more than just a trifle rich that such a thread should be started by DJ.:really: :what: :rolleyes:

[David Bailey]

I'm getting a serious case of deja vu reading this thread - especially the quote from bigdjiver: "The exodus of serious posters and the absence of most people of influence shows how unsuccessful I and others have been."
We've had this complaint several times, even in the past 18 months.

And yes, to an extent, it's inevitable - people move on, they do other things, life is change and so on.

In my opinion, as more people join, the demographics of this forum are now moving to become more like the demographics of Ceroc in general - less teachers / professionals / addicts, and more "normal people".

This is both good and bad.

Good because it's more representative - so polls and opinions may be closer to what people really think.
Bad because most people don't exclusively focus on dancing all their lives, so there's a lot less "dance chat" and lot more "other chat" - also means that there's less input from teachers / other professionals, because the discussion is less relevant to them.


In fact, apart from Trampy, I'm not sure if there are any experienced professionals contributing regularly to the forum at the moment.

[Lynn]

this post might have been more helpful with examples. I suddenly feel like I'm having an exam paper marked...:what: (But I know what you mean and I can't think of examples off the top of my head).

Part of the problem is that there are less and less dance topics left that haven't been covered at some point. So, older forumites might not have anything left that they feel they have to contribute as they feel they've already discussed said topic in depth. That's true as well, but you could say that about anything in life then. 'Oh, I'll not talk to this new person about X, Y or Z because I talked about the same thing with my mate 2 years ago'. I really don't feel it has to be 'new' topic to be worthy of discussion with different people.

I know I find I am learning all the time, so while I might have discussed the same subject a couple of years ago, I'll hopefully have something new to add now based on experiences I have had since that time. And I hope I'll keep on learning and refining what I know and how I apply it.

[TheTramp]

In fact, apart from Trampy, I'm not sure if there are any experienced professionals contributing regularly to the forum at the moment.

Oh lord. The pressure! :really:

[azande]

That's true as well, but you could say that about anything in life then. 'Oh, I'll not talk to this new person about X, Y or Z because I talked about the same thing with my mate 2 years ago'. I really don't feel it has to be 'new' topic to be worthy of discussion with different people.

The difference between the forum and real life is that the new people can go and read what was discussed two years ago, make their contribution and bring back the old thread, and maybe the "veterans" would be more willing to add things instead of going over everything again.

[Dazzler]

Nope.

That's one of the great things about this forum – fun stuff with serious discussion all in the same place.


:yeah:
i fully agree!....long may the mix of fun and serious continue! :grin:

[David Bailey]

I think it's more than just a trifle rich that such a thread should be started by DJ.:really: :what: :rolleyes:
Whilst I am at least as guilty as anyone of thread diversion, I've mad it a point since my Return As NewDJ to avoid completely posting in - or even reading of - those areas I consider to be completely frivolous (x-letter games, TPBM, etc. etc.). Hopefully, this has improved the average quality of my posts - certainly it's reduced the average quantity of them.

But, there are whole large chunks of the forum I've cut myself off from. Which may be seen as a good thing of course :)

[David Bailey]

Oh lord. The pressure! :really:

Perhaps I should have said "posting" rather than "contributing" :na:

[TheTramp]

Perhaps I should have said "posting" rather than "contributing" :na:

Seems reasonable!! :tears:

[Lynn]

The difference between the forum and real life is that the new people can go and read what was discussed two years ago, make their contribution and bring back the old thread, and maybe the "veterans" would be more willing to add things instead of going over everything again.And sometimes they do. But if they are new they may not stop and think that they have to go and search for, and read everything previously discussion before they are able to make a contribution. Though sometimes it feels like that when a thread is started by someone new to the forum and someone says 'this has been discussed before'. Sometimes its in a 'and you might find these threads helpful' - great! - pointing them towards helpful stuff. But sometimes its also a bit 'yawn, we really don't want to talk about that again'. Not so helpful.

Anyway, haven't we had this discussion sometime before? I certainly hope you checked before posting on this new thread. :wink: :whistle:

[azande]

No, because we are talking about starting threads, not contributing about active ones; next time, if I already posted something in the past, I'll just link to my post...

[Lou]

...maybe the "veterans" would be more willing to add things instead of going over everything again....
That's true, but it's not just a case of "going over things again", though. Some of those earlier threads were the first time that even people like DavidB had explored certain theories, so of course the discussions were richer.

The world's moved on, thanks in part to this forum. It's brought together a lot of people who possibly hadn't even met prior to chatting on this forum. That, and the increase in popularity of weekenders, now means that there's much more overlap of dancers in MJ. It seems odd to think, but there was a time when many people, even the bigger names, didn't know each other well (if at all).

The whole community has evolved. We do know more forumites in real life. And, so, the forum has become more of a social networking type of site, as opposed to the traditional forum. And so you're going to get more social type banter.


Sometimes its in a 'and you might find these threads helpful' - great! - pointing them towards helpful stuff. But sometimes its also a bit 'yawn, we really don't want to talk about that again'. Not so helpful.

The vast majority of people add a harperlink to discussions such as that. And even if the person replying couldn't add one, quite often someone does follow it up with a link. And don't forget there's those links to similar discussions at the bottom of a page. It's a very rare case that someone would get a "yawn".

[Lynn]

The vast majority of people add a harperlink to discussions such as that. And even if the person replying couldn't add one, quite often someone does follow it up with a link. And don't forget there's those links to similar discussions at the bottom of a page. It's a very rare case that someone would get a "yawn".Oh no, not literally a 'yawn' - just that sometimes it may seem that way to a newbie.

And I'm all for reviving past threads rather than start new ones - that way all the past wisdom (!) can get shared with new posters.

[El Salsero Gringo]

I've mad it a point since my Return As NewDJ Sorry, but can you clarify: is this the the old NewDJ, or the new NewDJ, or the new, improved (with extra content not just a shiny new wrapping) NewDJ? Has your formulation improved? How about your taste? What can you offer to those of us who prefer DJ Classic? And when are you going to introduce DJ Zero?

[David Bailey]

And I'm all for reviving past threads rather than start new ones - that way all the past wisdom (!) can get shared with new posters.
Yeah... but if it's a massive thread, newbies may be put off by not wanting to read through 200+ pages or whatever. So maybe sometimes a new thread is better at attracting comment?

As long as a new thread links back to an old one (e.g. the "how long have you been dancing" one), then this is reasonable.

I also wonder if threads should be made "inactive" after a certain period of time - for example, if no-one's posted on it for a year. Although admittedly some of the fun is seeing 3-year-old threads suddenly resurface :)

[Lou]

I also wonder if threads should be made "inactive" after a certain period of time - for example, if no-one's posted on it for a year.
So all posts prior to your joining the forum should be made inactive? :whistle:

[David Bailey]

So all posts prior to your joining the forum should be made inactive? :whistle:
Well, I hadn't considered it that way, but now that you mention it... :na:

[David Bailey]

Sorry, but can you clarify: is this the the old NewDJ, or the new NewDJ, or the new, improved (with extra content not just a shiny new wrapping) NewDJ? Has your formulation improved? How about your taste? What can you offer to those of us who prefer DJ Classic? And when are you going to introduce DJ Zero?
Yes, no, no, yes, possibly, dunno and after 10K.

OK, fair cop, I do still do the occasional frivolous post...