Beginners, and Beginners ?

[Whitebeard]

A good night tonight, the floor was in fine fettle and I had quite a few lovely glidey slidey dances to nice slow music (Thanks John, the balance was good for me).

One disastrous dance with a lady who's been coming for a number of months now. But I honestly don't know why. Like stirring something a lot thicker than porridge. For the first time I terminated the dance before the end. An experience to be forgotten.

Then, a new to me lady, sat beside me, and invited me to dance. A little bit of assessment and then we seemed to click. I've decided that I'm never going to be a movemeister and a little bit of musical expression and interpretation is the way forward for me. It was a nice dance and I asked her in return a little later. She thanked me for that dance and confided that it was only her third week. All I can say is that some have it, and some don't: and never will. She made a point of coming across at the end of the evening, introducing herself by name (in a Scotish accent, maybe), telling me I was a pretty fantastic dancer (maybe), and making an appointment for next week. All this could go to my head you know.

[Lou]

All this could go to my head you know.
:D About time too, Clive! :hug:

I went out last night too. But I didn't have such a good time. One shouldn't dance with PMT! :whistle:

I'd ended up with a taxi dancer during the beginners class. He's a nice enough chap - not the brightest, but means well. (For example, in a previous class I'd noticed a couple next to him who were struggling - it was two brand new beginner ladies dancing together - no one had told them about the rotation & he hadn't spotted them. As soon as I'd mentioned it, though, he'd helped them out :) ).

He has a very forceful lead, which is probably very useful for moving beginner ladies around, but is much too heavy for my tastes. So I did what I normally do when a man is yanking me around. I relaxed my frame to protect my poor old shoulders & back. Then the poor unsuspecting taxi told me I didn't have enough resistance in my arms...

Did he get a mouthful! :angry: I pulled rank. I pointed out how long I've been dancing! That I've taught! That the fault was in his lead and that I was merely trying to avoid injury from his bad habits! :blush: The poor lad was quivering for the rest of the evening!

So, if you're reading this... sorry! :flower:

[Dreadful Scathe]

:) in his defence - i found that as a taxi my lead had to get a lot stronger for the beginners and I did occasionaly forget to go back to "normal" :) if only id danced with you, i doubt id forget again :)

[Lou]

:) in his defence - i found that as a taxi my lead had to get a lot stronger for the beginners and I did occasionaly forget to go back to "normal" :) if only id danced with you, i doubt id forget again :)

Exactly! :D As I say he's a nice lad, so this morning (with hormone levels approaching normal ;) ) I felt bad & needed to apologise! :D

My shoulder's still sore, though!

[timbp]

One shouldn't dance with PMT!

I really don't think it is appropriate to use this forum to tell people not to dance with particular partners. Other people might find PMT is a great partner.

Also, either fully disidentify, or use the full name. Using his initials is just annoying to those of us who don't know him.
(OK, so "Peter Michael Tansley" wouldn't mean anything to me either, but at least I wouldn't waste time wondering if I know anyone with those initials.)

[killingtime]

One disastrous dance with a lady who's been coming for a number of months now. But I honestly don't know why. Like stirring something a lot thicker than porridge.

I don't know. To have fun? Meet people? Enjoy dancing? I really hope her other dance experiences are better so she continues to feel welcome and can continue to enjoy herself.


All I can say is that some have it, and some don't: and never will.

It seems unfair to state that, after a few months of dancing, someone will never get the concepts of a dance. Some are naturally talented others need a lot more practice and learning but I don't think that there is anyone who should be given up on.

I have to thank the women who were patient with me at the outset, and the warm atmosphere of Ceroc otherwise I doubt I would have continued dancing.

[Heather]

I really don't think it is appropriate to use this forum to tell people not to dance with particular partners. Other people might find PMT is a great partner.

Also, either fully disidentify, or use the full name. Using his initials is just annoying to those of us who don't know him.
(OK, so "Peter Michael Tansley" wouldn't mean anything to me either, but at least I wouldn't waste time wondering if I know anyone with those initials.)

Are you being facetious?

PMT is Pre Menstrual Tension and a lot of us women suffer badly because of it :angry:

Rearrange these words 'Numpty' 'you' 'are' and consider yourself lucky that you don't suffer from PMT .

:hug:

Heather

[timbp]

It seems unfair to state that, after a few months of dancing, someone will never get the concepts of a dance. Some are naturally talented others need a lot more practice and learning but I don't think that there is anyone who should be given up on.

Does this depend on the dance?

I have always enjoyed dancing Ceroc with beginners. I do get frustrated if I have too many spaghetti-armed girls who panic every time I try something not in that night's class, but a couple of dances with good followers is enough to reset.

In West Coast Swing I am much more particular. If someone in class does not give me the connection and stretch that makes the feel of the dance, I will not ask that person to dance later.
I know there have been threads about WCS dance snobs. Nevertheless, what keeps me hooked on WCS is the feel of the connection and stretch. If a partner doesn't show she understands that, then I might as well dance Ceroc with her.

[Dynamo]

.. so she continues to feel welcome and can continue to enjoy herself.

It seems unfair to state that, after a few months of dancing, someone will never get the concepts of a dance. Some are naturally talented others need a lot more practice and learning but I don't think that there is anyone who should be given up on.
.

:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:

I know a lady who came for 3+ years and was always heavy of foot :sad: , but what a shock when I found her doing the same in a blues room :sad: , then better still her dancing has transformed and we often see her in the blues room now. :D :D :D
I dont know her name, we often danced once per nite, but now we seek each other out more frequently. :D

I know, she knows she has changed, but never found the courage to ask what caused that change. She has always been a nice lady inside, so nice to see her smile more often now. :D :D



I have to thank the women who were patient with me at the outset, and the warm atmosphere of Ceroc otherwise I doubt I would have continued dancing.

I still back to a small independant near me, where i started. To say hi, chat and dance with the people who helped and encouraged me to start and persevere :D :D , without whom my life would be far less rich now. :D

What goes around will come around. :grin:

[timbp]

Are you being facetious?

PMT is Pre Menstrual Tension and a lot of us women suffer badly because of it :angry:

Rearrange these words 'Numpty' 'you' 'are' and consider yourself lucky that you don't suffer from PMT .

:hug:

Heather
Believe me, men suffer!

For what it's worth, I have had enough girlfriends to have a fair idea of the range in how seriously PMT affects different women. I also have quite strong knowledge in biology and physiology, and reasonable understanding in psychology.

I still don't think there was anything wrong with my earlier post (but then, I'm just an insensitive man).

[killingtime]

Does this depend on the dance?

Absolutely. In Ceroc after a year you might well consider yourself a good intermediate, in Tango you'd probably consider yourself a beginner. Getting the basic concepts is much more important in some dances (frame in Tango for example) whereas though you might not have a great connection you can fudge it.


I have always enjoyed dancing Ceroc with beginners. I do get frustrated if I have too many spaghetti-armed girls who panic every time I try something not in that night's class, but a couple of dances with good followers is enough to reset.

Me too. I've encountered beginners and intermediates that I really struggle with and that I don't enjoy dancing with that much. I still hope they have a good time and, even if it is taking them a while to learn, they'll start realising that the dance can improve if they do certain things (I think trying to teach them is detrimental to the enjoyment so I don't unless asked).


In West Coast Swing I am much more particular. If someone in class does not give me the connection and stretch that makes the feel of the dance, I will not ask that person to dance later.

The connection is more fundamental to WCS than Ceroc. Certainly a WCS class will go far more in depth about technique and the technical aspects than a Ceroc class tends to. With the addition of footwork and beat patterns to worry about it is no wonder that it takes longer for people to pick it up.

[David Bailey]

Exactly! :D As I say he's a nice lad, so this morning (with hormone levels approaching normal ;) ) I felt bad & needed to apologise! :D

My shoulder's still sore, though!
Did he say "well done" at the end? :devil:

[Lou]

Believe me, men suffer!

Did he say "well done" at the end? :devil:
He didn't dare. See above.

[Dreadful Scathe]

I think a "well done" is appreciated much more if accompanied with a nice pat to the head or as you move away, perhaps a cheeky slap on the bottom. I'll try that on tiggstours if I ever get the chance to dance with her*



* next of kin details to follow.. :)

[Whitebeard]

I think a "well done" is appreciated much more if accompanied with a nice pat to the head or as you move away, perhaps a cheeky slap on the bottom. I'll try that on tiggstours if I ever get the chance to dance with her*



* next of kin details to follow.. :)

I think she thinks she's got a nice one. I'd like to see before I disagree !!

[Whitebeard]

:D About time too, Clive! :hug:
Hi Lou, longish time no dancey wancey.



I went out last night too. But I didn't have such a good time. One shouldn't dance with PMT! :whistle:


Sorry to hear that: but I have something even worse. It's called ART (no, not art; which, if modern, is dreadful enough, but A R T) - Age Related Tension - which is terminal.




I'd ended up with a taxi dancer during the beginners class. He's a nice enough chap - not the brightest, but means well. (For example, in a previous class I'd noticed a couple next to him who were struggling - it was two brand new beginner ladies dancing together - no one had told them about the rotation & he hadn't spotted them. As soon as I'd mentioned it, though, he'd helped them out :) ).

I'm pretty dull myself but I know better then to cross a Bristol lady !!




He has a very forceful lead, which is probably very useful for moving beginner ladies around, but is much too heavy for my tastes. So I did what I normally do when a man is yanking me around. I relaxed my frame to protect my poor old shoulders & back. Then the poor unsuspecting taxi told me I didn't have enough resistance in my arms...

I hope you find me suggestive rather than forceful !!!




Did he get a mouthful! :angry: I pulled rank. I pointed out how long I've been dancing! That I've taught! That the fault was in his lead and that I was merely trying to avoid injury from his bad habits! :blush: The poor lad was quivering for the rest of the evening!

Good Gawd, I'm quiverin' in me Stealths too, at the very thought.




So, if you're reading this... sorry! :flower:

I may be your only reader, but I'm here .......

As it happens, I'm looking for a lady with whom (oh the grammar of it) to practice a little of the bluesy woosey. You know, that Andy McG, inner thigh brushing stuff !!!!

[Daydreaming Diva]

Are you being facetious?

PMT is Pre Menstrual Tension and a lot of us women suffer badly because of it :angry:

Rearrange these words 'Numpty' 'you' 'are' and consider yourself lucky that you don't suffer from PMT .

Heather - :clap: I just could not help smiling when I read the content of this thread and your reply. :D In fact I'm still laughing now. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Surely the men realised that PMT was not a person, but there again, it seems they did not. Oh well, I guess that you have to have suffered from PMT, for those three little letters to mean anything.

I just have to send you a big hug :hug: and a :kiss: for pointing everyone in the right direction.

[MartinHarper]

I really don't think it is appropriate to use this forum to tell people not to dance with particular partners. Other people might find PMT is a great partner.

Where's "The Explainer" when you need him?

This is funny because timbp has deliberately misinterpreted Lou's use of the initials "PMT", referring to pre-menstrual tension, as the initials of a dancer. This plants the suggestion that Lou is a hotshot, and in the process takes a sideways jab at the "name and shame" debates on the forum.

[Dazzler]

I don't know. To have fun? Meet people? Enjoy dancing? I really hope her other dance experiences are better so she continues to feel welcome and can continue to enjoy herself.



It seems unfair to state that, after a few months of dancing, someone will never get the concepts of a dance. Some are naturally talented others need a lot more practice and learning but I don't think that there is anyone who should be given up on.

I have to thank the women who were patient with me at the outset, and the warm atmosphere of Ceroc otherwise I doubt I would have continued dancing.


I whole heartedly agree with KT on this one....yes some have it but others just need time and encouragement and i would never judge them based on a few months....she is technically just started to dance...also it may have been your styles clashed or your lead was different to any other guy she had danced with previously...i think its unfair to question her reasons for being there ! If she enjoys it then let her do her thing perhaps just avoid her yourself as with that attitude towards her dancing you may just put her off and that is unfair!
{rant over} :whistle:

[Whitebeard]

I whole heartedly agree with KT on this one....yes some have it but others just need time and encouragement and i would never judge them based on a few months....she is technically just started to dance...also it may have been your styles clashed or your lead was different to any other guy she had danced with previously...i think its unfair to question her reasons for being there ! If she enjoys it then let her do her thing perhaps just avoid her yourself as with that attitude towards her dancing you may just put her off and that is unfair!
{rant over} :whistle:

You're right I was too harsh on the lady, but she really did give me a hard and frankly embarrassing time on the dancefloor, and my reserves of strength and stamina are not great these days. It was a fast track and even trying to go at half speed didn't help. Better to withdraw and say it was too fast for us.

Had a similar, though not so extreme, example a few weeks ago where I was having trouble leading and the lady wasn't engaging visually either. On that occasion I solved the problem by going into a loose closed hold and just moving with the music. Turned out the lady was quite OK at that so she will get there in the end.

[Dazzler]

You're right I was too harsh on the lady, but she really did give me a hard and frankly embarrassing time on the dancefloor, and my reserves of strength and stamina are not great these days. It was a fast track and even trying to go at half speed didn't help. Better to withdraw and say it was too fast for us.

Had a similar, though not so extreme, example a few weeks ago where I was having trouble leading and the lady wasn't engaging visually either. On that occasion I solved the problem by going into a loose closed hold and just moving with the music. Turned out the lady was quite OK at that so she will get there in the end.


It is hard i know to show encouragement to those who are slower on the uptake but as a new dancer myself..(4months and 3 weeks and counting) i find that i may be the problem sometimes....my lead may not be up to scratch or my connection with said dancer...but all i do is have fun..no point pushing a bad dance to the point it ruins you...just paint on a smile keep it basic and have a chat!...:waycool:

[Whitebeard]

It is hard i know to show encouragement to those who are slower on the uptake but as a new dancer myself..(4months and 3 weeks and counting) .....

Few are slower on the uptake than me !! I wouldn't mind betting you already do more moves than I do after three years!! The Ceroc model just does not work for me, and I have little to show in terms of moves for over two years of intermediate classes.

However I have advanced in terms of lead and follow, connection, and, to a degree, musicality and attitude (very important, that latter). Generally, I can dance with anyone, and enjoy at least a reasonable dance. Though obviously, and I'm sure this applies to everyone, I have my little band of favoured partners with whom I have a special connection.




I find that i may be the problem sometimes....my lead may not be up to scratch or my connection with said dancer...but all i do is have fun..no point pushing a bad dance to the point it ruins you...just paint on a smile keep it basic and have a chat!...:waycool:

Yes, we chaps have to shoulder the blame don't we. I can normally soldier on, but chat, against a background of loud music, is out of the question for me. Just another age related problem.