Beginners moves and floorcraft

[spindr]

Given discussions elsewhere, I wonder whether the set of beginners' moves should be chosen to match those easiest to dance in terms of floorcraft *and* space.

For example, I ended up unexpectedly in a Ceroc beginners class recently -- where the catapult was being taught. At no time did the teacher suggest that the beginner leaders should look behind them to check for space. So, it occurs to me that perhaps the catapult should be promoted (relegated) from the beginners set of moves.

Ho hum, just a thought.

SpinDr

[KatieR]

Given discussions elsewhere, I wonder whether the set of beginners' moves should be chosen to match those easiest to dance in terms of floorcraft *and* space.

For example, I ended up unexpectedly in a Ceroc beginners class recently -- where the catapult was being taught. At no time did the teacher suggest that the beginner leaders should look behind them to check for space. So, it occurs to me that perhaps the catapult should be promoted (relegated) from the beginners set of moves.

Ho hum, just a thought.

SpinDr

If you start taking particular moves out of beginner classes you end up with an extremely boring class of octopii and manspins...

perhaps look at training the trainers... when they are teaching these moves they need to explain that there ARE other dancers on the floor and you need to be aware of them. To me its just as if not more important than learning the move.

[Beowulf]

So, it occurs to me that perhaps the catapult should be promoted (relegated) from the beginners set of moves.

:eek: Nooooo!! Those beginners moves are all I have you can't take them away from me. I have to say though that as a Beginner I've NEVER been taught floor craft. I guess like much in MJ it's one of these things that you have to learn by osmosis or something.

I fanything I think we should be adding stuff to beginners classes not taking them away or charging us extra for them. Sure we get taught the moves. but musicallity, style, floorcraft etc.. all tend to be taught at workshops etc. Moves are only half the answer.. doesn't matter how much you dance a set of moves if you're just repeating them parrot fashion. No matter how much you do somehting, something's do have to be explained to you.

*Maths Teacher to his class.. "I'll teach you how to add and subtract. But for those of you who're interested there's a multiplication and divison workshop this weekend."

Perhaps it's just the cynic in me.. that normal Ceroc classes teach you just enough to be hooked.. but not enough to be good :rolleyes:

[DavidY]

For example, I ended up unexpectedly in a Ceroc beginners class recently -- where the catapult was being taught. At no time did the teacher suggest that the beginner leaders should look behind them to check for space. So, it occurs to me that perhaps the catapult should be promoted (relegated) from the beginners set of moves.But some teachers do explain that in the catapult the leader should move forward as the follower moves behind him. So as a leader you shouldn't need that much extra space behind you, because the follower is moving to the space you've recently vacated..

[Alice]

But some teachers do explain that in the catapult the leader should move forward as the follower moves behind him. So as a leader you shouldn't need that much extra space behind you, because the follower is moving to the space you've recently vacated..
Good point... but you still need to be aware of what's going on in the space around you...

I don't think the catapult needs to be "promoted"- the teachers just need to remind/teach people to look around them while doing it:whistle: Beginners need to be taught about floorcraft, you can't just expect them to learn it by osmosis... (or you can, but it takes a lot longer and involves a lot more collisions:blush: :sick: )

[MartinHarper]

As a leader you shouldn't need that much extra space behind you, because the follower is moving to the space you've recently vacated..

Unwise to rely on that, though, particularly on a more crowded floor.

I'd say keep the catapult as a beginner move, and get teachers to explain the importance of checking behind you whilst "bowling the cricket ball".

[Stuart M]

Given discussions elsewhere, I wonder whether the set of beginners' moves should be chosen to match those easiest to dance in terms of floorcraft *and* space.

Oh goody, another "what moves should be beginner's moves" thread...

Would hate to see the catapult demoted from beginner's move classes. It's got many good points:

Gives beginners something to achieve. If every beginner's move was simple there'd be less sense of progression - I can remember when being a beginner mastering things like side-to-sides and man-spins quickly, then first moves, then yoyos, then the catapult.
Makes the step up to Intermediate classes less harsh (by effectively creating an overlap).
It's a good core move in the sense of having many variations (accept that this might lead to a perception of moves-based dance structure, though).
It's a great "testbed" move for bringing up many issues for beginners, such as: floorcraft, making the lead move, stopping the follower anticipating, spinning on the spot, and timing.


Enough with the dumbing down of beginner's classes, I say. Still prefer the old-fashioned comb - it was a good move to help demonstrate anti-sleaze techniques (you still can of course, but since the beginner's comb has now been neutered the point is lost somewhat).

[El Salsero Gringo]

But some teachers do explain that in the catapult the leader should move forward as the follower moves behind him. So as a leader you shouldn't need that much extra space behind you, because the follower is moving to the space you've recently vacated..Absolutely. "Men step forward and lean forward ... ladies step back and lean back". Ring any bells?

The catapult doesnt take any more room than any of the other beginners' moves (if it does it's likely you're dancing it wrong) and the lady can see clearly what's going on behind the man as she steps in.

Naturally floorcraft is important too; but don't blame the move.