Who's going to Brit Rock? (Oct 13 & 14)

[Feelingpink]

Who is going to Brighton next month for the Friday night ball & Saturday competitions? I'm taking photographs at both, so wanted to find out which familiar faces I could look forward to ... as well as meeting new faces. :nice:

[fletch]

Going to the Big Free Style in Derby

[Patrick]

Who is going to Brighton next month for the Friday night ball & Saturday competitions? I'm taking photographs at both, so wanted to find out which familiar faces I could look forward to ... as well as meeting new faces. :nice:

I'm entered in Intermediate Freestyle. Haven't been to Brit Rock before, so looking forward too it.


Going to the Big Free Style in Derby

There are big freestyles in Derby? :confused: I wuz brung up in Derby, never guessed it would become a dance Mecca. :grin:

My dance buddy keeps running off to Stafford to visit her friends. Maybe I should seriously rethink my location. :wink:

[Andy McGregor]

Just to bring this thread back on topic :whistle:

I will be working at Britrock rather than competing. I'm the Adjudicator. That means I calculate the positions from the judges raw scores and I ensure that the rules are complied with. And, before you start offering me all sorts of bribes, or getting upset with your eventual position, I've got no say in your score or where you come, I just do the maths. But, if you break the rules you will be hearing from me :mad:

And one change I've introduced is a partner swap in the Dance with a Stranger. You will not be stuck with the same partner in the first round, you will get a second 'stranger' in the first round before anybody is eliminated. And you will be promoted to the next round if you dance well with either one of your 'strangers'. That means the chances of getting a strange 'stranger' are halved. And the chances of getting someone who is a complete star are doubled :clap:

One change I could not introduce was the compulsory wearing of fabulous shoes. You will, of course, get points for presentation - but I'd still like to see plenty of glitter and maybe some thigh length boots in at least one final :waycool:

[Lindsay]

Just to bring this thread back on topic :whistle: And one change I've introduced is a partner swap in the Dance with a Stranger. You will not be stuck with the same partner in the first round, you will get a second 'stranger' in the first round before anybody is eliminated. And you will be promoted to the next round if you dance well with either one of your 'strangers'. That means the chances of getting a strange 'stranger' are halved. And the chances of getting someone who is a complete star are doubled :clap:

Brilliant idea!

[Daydreaming Diva]

And one change I've introduced is a partner swap in the Dance with a Stranger. You will not be stuck with the same partner in the first round, you will get a second 'stranger' in the first round before anybody is eliminated. And you will be promoted to the next round if you dance well with either one of your 'strangers'. That means the chances of getting a strange 'stranger' are halved. And the chances of getting someone who is a complete star are doubled :clap:

Brilliant idea Andy. And I'm entered, yippee!! But what happens if you get through and neither of your partners do? Have I missed the point here? :blush:

[Andy McGregor]

Brilliant idea Andy. And I'm entered, yippee!! But what happens if you get through and neither of your partners do? Have I missed the point here? :blush:This has yet to be finalised, so don't complain if it doesn't happen. Each member of a couple who dance well in the first round will be promoted to the next round. What I'd like to see happen next is that there is another random pairing. You couldn't keep your partner from the first round as you had two - and some people will have been voted through with both their first round partners. In that case how would we choose who you'd do the second round with?

So, I'm hoping I get agreement for a third, and possibly fourth pairing in the second round.

My own opinion is that DWAS should reflect what actually happens in MJ. We dance with many different partners and a DWAS with many different partners would measure how good you are at this aspect of the dance. Of course there will be the disappointment of not getting a fab partner you had earlier. But there is the joyful anticipation of getting an even better partner in the next round, etc, etc. And, one thing we have agreed is that you dance the final as a fixed couple and are awarded the prizes as that couple. By the final everyone should have really earned their place and should all be great dancers. And recombining partners means that there is less chance of a great dancer getting knocked out early because they have a less able partner - it could still happen, but the chance of getting a good partner is nearly doubled. It would be fabulous to keep recombining partners but there is time to consider and also, the statistical improvement in odds of getting at least one good partner diminishes with each recombination as you take out of the calculation the ones who've already had one good partner - does this make sense :confused: If I wish I had more time as I did attend those statistics lectures and could do the maths to tell you the exact odds*. Maybe a forumite with more time could do it for us :waycool:

*even then I think you'd have to make assumptions about the number of great dancers in the first round.

[Gordon J Pownall]

It's gonna be a good one...!

Andy, great news for all in his role as Ajudicator...

The method we use for judging is transparent and with Andy monitoring the whole process, it ensures that the event is judged fairly for ALL...info on the process is available on the website...

http://www.jivelive.com/britrock/judging.html

Here's the PR blurb...!

Can it possibly get any better than previous years…?? 2006 is the fourth year running and set to be the most successful and enjoyable yet.

This year is looking even more amazing with entries arriving thick and fast.

The Friday Night Ball is a great opportunity for competitors from far reaching towns to get their bearings and test out the dance floor. With two teams booked in already travelling from far and wide there is set to be a lot of noise and friendly banter with everyone strutting their stuff on (and off) the floor.

Don’t forget to book into the Friday Night BritRocK Ball, with the Ice Breaker Class taken by James McLauchlan and freestyle tunes played by an amazing partnership of Sally Ford aka DJ Bunnie and Jon Brett.


With a team like this at the decks, you are guaranteed a wonderful night with many of the competition tunes being played on Friday evening (of course we’re not going to tell you which ones…!)…

The night will swirl on with other guest DJ's playing sets including dance teacher Gordon Pownall. Their tunes will fill your fancy until 12.30 in the fabulous Grand Hall of the Hove Centre in Norton Road.

This is a 'dress up for the occasion' Ball where Best, Outrageous and 'Bling Bling' frocks are definitely encouraged.

SATURDAY COMPETITION

The competition on the following day (Saturday 14th) is of course NOT to be missed whether you are competing or not.

This is a VERY exciting event that is not too far away and held only once a year. Starting at 12 noon and finishing at gone midnight you have the unique opportunity to experience the thrills and adrenaline of a brilliantly executed and professionally run competition.

With the greatest range of competition tunes specially selected and compiled by Sally Ford aka DJ Bunnie (now in her fourth year of managing the competition music), to give dancers the best possible opportunity to strut their stuff and display their moves.

As we as all this fun and excitement we have throughout the day an obscene amount of freestyle dancing with music by Jon Brett in between the heats - this is a day truly NOT to be missed. Sally and Jon take over after prize giving with music to dance the night away until after midnight.

The FLOOR has been S-L-O-W-E-D right down by the use of a 'non polish' floor wash tried and tested at the Stompin’ event earlier at Hove Centre this year so.... absolutely appropriate for freestyle and competition dancing i.e. not too fast and not too slow.

Go On Have A Go, you know you want to - life is Waaaay toooo short!

Tickets available NOW from Hev mate - 07967 904 096 £10 Fri / £20 Sat



~ We've done it three times before and we're doing it again ~

BritRocK 2006

13 - 14 October

The Hove Centre, Brighton

~ www.britrockcompetition.co.uk ~

[MartinHarper]

My own opinion is that DWAS should reflect what actually happens in MJ. We dance with many different partners and a DWAS with many different partners would measure how good you are at this aspect of the dance.

Excellent work. Long overdue.

[Mr Cool]

My own opinion is that DWAS should reflect what actually happens in MJ. We dance with many different partners and a DWAS with many different partners would measure how good you are at this aspect of the dance. :respect:


Personally I believe real dance is lead and follow:yeah:

DWAS is sadly the poor relation of dance competition.:mad: :mad:

The quintessential dancer should be skilled at dancing with a wide variety of dancers, the traditional choreographed practiced routine does nothing for me. (I see choreography as a different skill to lead and follow) Give me unrehearsed live dancing any time.:yeah:


I think DWAS competitions changing partners each round is fairest and most fun way of assessing dancers ability. :cheers: :cheers:

:waycool: :waycool: :waycool: :waycool:

[TheTramp]

I think DWAS competitions changing partners each round is fairest and most fun way of assessing dancers ability. :cheers: :cheers:


Disagree a little. I don't think that it's necessarily the fairest. In the first round, one great partner can get someone who is almost a complete novice through (admittedly this is more true for a great lead, but would also apply to a lot of times when it's a great follow).

So, you then have one (several) very weak dancers going through to the next round. Where it's a lot harder to get though if a great dancer is partnered with one of them.

Say there's 5 rounds in total. If there's any very weak dancers in the 3rd round (say), even the best partner will probably not be able to make it any further if partnered with them.

The fairest system I've seen is in the Aussie comps, where in the earlier rounds the judges mark the leads and follows independently, and they are moved one person on several times during each heat. Of course, this only works because they run the DWAS as levels as well, so there's comparatively few people in each group, and usually about 6-9 couples on the floor at any given time.

Then, in theory, it should be the people who are dancing best on the day who get to the final, where, in most of the comps, they are then judged as a couple.

I think having this split into levels, and giving the opportunity to dance with all the different people in the heat is the fairest way of making sure the best dancers on the day win the comp. I'm not 100% convinced of the marking of people individually, and not as a couple. And I definitely disagree when they still do that in the final. But of the 2 comps I saw this year, it was the best dancers who made it through to the finals at all the levels, where they were going to get a partner of roughly the same level as them.

I have a little more to say, but the night has finished, and it's time to pack up now :whistle:

[Patrick]

Disagree a little. ....

Say there's 5 rounds in total. If there's any very weak dancers in the 3rd round (say), even the best partner will probably not be able to make it any further if partnered with them.....

Then, in theory, it should be the people who are dancing best on the day who get to the final, where, in most of the comps, they are then judged as a couple.....

But of the 2 comps I saw this year, it was the best dancers who made it through to the finals at all the levels, where they were going to get a partner of roughly the same level as them.

I have a little more to say, but the night has finished, and it's time to pack up now :whistle:

I disagree a lot!!!

Apologies in advance, I'm feeling rather jaded about competitions at the moment. I have just lost my intermediates partner for Brit Rock, having worked with her for several months. (To keep things in perspective, fortunately that's not 'lost' in the shuffling-off-her-mortal-coils sense, just lost to me.)

I feel that DWAS is pointless and (very nearly) a complete waste of time. I would only do it for a bit of fun, and it's not that much fun.

As a lead you have no chance of doing well unless you are one of the best leads, whatever the scheme for the rounds. Which means 90% of the guys know they are wasting their time in advance (from a competitve point of view), even if they draw Yuko. As a follower, you have a slightly better chance. Even if you are only fair to middling, you could do well if you get one of the strongest leads.

If I wanted to dance with Yuko or other experienced lady, I would do better just asking her in freestyle.

Come to think of it, I did ask her once, and she said no! Then she went and danced with some bloke called Phil??? But the odds are still better I think.

The only benefit I see in DWAS is getting the surprise of dancing with a stranger... but I get that in freestyle all the time.

I say, scrap DWAS altogether, and have a proper, fair novices section instead. Which means for people who have never done competitions before. More specifically, never got past first round in any competition.

I may well go to Rebel Yell instead of Brit Rock - I'm not going all the way to Brighton just to DWAS! I do that all the time.

OK, now I'll go and take a few deep breaths....

Patrick :flower:

[MartinHarper]

As a lead you have no chance of doing well unless you are one of the best leads, whatever the scheme for the rounds.

Can I just say how totally shocked I am by this stunning revelation. In order to win dance competitions, it helps to be a good dancer. Clearly this is discrimination of the highest order, and we should instead give the prize to whoever is fattest.

[Patrick]

Can I just say how totally shocked I am by this stunning revelation. In order to win dance competitions, it helps to be a good dancer. Clearly this is discrimination of the highest order, and we should instead give the prize to whoever is fattest.

So are you very fat? :na: Afraid I wouldn't win that competition either! :D

I could do well in sarcasm competitions, but can't be arsed. It's pointless.

My point is, if one enters a graded section such as int or adv, one will be competing with others of a similar standard, peers more or less, and have a realistic chance of doing well. In DWAS, the result is largely a foregone conclusion for the leads, so entering from a competitve point of view is pointless. I already know my standard, I don't need to have my face rubbed in it!

Well at least we share the same surname... :wink:

[ducasi]

My point is, if one enters a graded section such as int or adv, one will be competing with others of a similar standard, peers more or less, and have a realistic chance of doing well. In DWAS, the result is largely a foregone conclusion for the leads, so entering from a competitve point of view is pointless.
Some people enter competitions for other reasons than to win.

[Patrick]

Some people enter competitions for other reasons than to win.

Yes I agree completely. At the moment I enter Intermediate competitions because it improves my dancing very quickly, and it is exciting. I know I have no chance of winning at the moment, but I do have a chance of getting past the first round, which is very encouraging. In my experience, DWAS does nothing for my dance skills and is not exciting at all!

As I said before, a genuine novice class would vastly improve the competition scene, and open it up to the majority who are reluctant to enter at all. Sadly I wouldn't qualify by my own criteria to be a novice any more. My first competition was an open category. We were slaughtered, but it was fun, and very instructive.

:cheers:

[TheTramp]

I like having the DWAS. On the whole, I'd probably prefer it split into different levels, but even as it currently is, I'd still want it included. Definitely more so than a novice/beginners competition. Hence, I don't see that it would improve the competition scene by removing it.

I can't think of any competition that doesn't have a DWAS section. And only 1 that has a beginner section. So seems that most of the people who run these things agree with me on this one too.

There are plenty of people who enter the DWAS section - far more than any other section. So it appears that most of them wouldn't want it taken out either.

[Patrick]

[QUOTE]I like having the DWAS. On the whole, I'd probably prefer it split into different levels, but even as it currently is, I'd still want it included. Definitely more so than a novice/beginners competition. Hence, I don't see that it would improve the competition scene by removing it.

But it would improve the scene for novices completely. Most people, IMHO, won't enter competitions at all. Mostly because they believe they will be outclassed in any existiing category they enter. And they are right!


I can't think of any competition that doesn't have a DWAS section. And only 1 that has a beginner section. So seems that most of the people who run these things agree with me on this one too.

But thats the organisers view. What about the punters?


There are plenty of people who enter the DWAS section - far more than any other section. So it appears that most of them wouldn't want it taken out either.

Even those who enter DWAS are a tiny proportion of the dancing public. I believe lots of reluctant/nervous people would enter a proper novice class, even if they are scared to enter DWAS. Competitions are perceived to be elitist by the majority I believe. And they are right about that too!

I thought about a poll on the forum, but it would be meaningless. The vast dancing public are not proprtionately represented on this forum, it attracts mostly those who are already very keen.

But thanks for your interest.

Patrick :cheers:

[TheTramp]

But it would improve the scene for novices completely. Most people, IMHO, won't enter competitions at all. Mostly because they believe they will be outclassed in any existiing category they enter. And they are right!

You're right. We should have many, many categories. That way, we only have one couple in each of them. And everyone's a winner!

Your suggestion of having a novice competition doesn't really address this fact. It only solves the "problem" for those that have been dancing less than 6 months (or whatever the criteria is). Though, I do admit that I think that 4 levels would be about right for a competition. 3 isn't too bad. 2 levels - as at the Chance to Dance competition, is just not enough.


Even those who enter DWAS are a tiny proportion of the dancing public. I believe lots of reluctant/nervous people would enter a proper novice class, even if they are scared to enter DWAS. Competitions are perceived to be elitist by the majority I believe. And they are right about that too!

I think that the last time Ceroc ran a beginners category, the number of entrants was so low that they decided against running it again. I doubt very much if you would get many more people attending or entering if you had a beginners category. And for those people that can't find a partner, or don't have the time, resources, inclination, whatever to practice for a comp, it does give them an opportunity to take part when they are there.

And, I have to be honest here. I really wouldn't want to watch a whole category of competition with people doing first move, man spin, repeat to end of song (I know that this is a bit of a generalisation, but you get the drift!).

[Patrick]

You're right. We should have many, many categories. That way, we only have one couple in each of them. And everyone's a winner!
Yey! I like that idea! :D But I am trying to be serious here... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


Your suggestion of having a novice competition doesn't really address this fact. It only solves the "problem" for those that have been dancing less than 6 months (or whatever the criteria is). Though, I do admit that I think that 4 levels would be about right for a competition. 3 isn't too bad. 2 levels - as at the Chance to Dance competition, is just not enough.

I agree that a 'Beginners less than 6 months' category is a useless option too. Automatically excludes 50% of people who started that year, and everybody else. Crazy idea :confused: :confused:

What I meant by Novice (and said in my original post) is people who are novice to competitions, not to dancing. Specifically, you qualify if you have never got past the first round in any competition so far. That would cover about 99% of MJers I think. But once you've done OK in the Novice class, it's off to Intermediates for you. If you are really rubbish, you could stay in the Novice class for ever! I was told recently that in Ballroom comps, they have a very precise progression through experience levels. She couldn't get to grips with the random rules & categories in Ceroc/Leroc comps.


I think that the last time Ceroc ran a beginners category, the number of entrants was so low that they decided against running it again. I doubt very much if you would get many more people attending or entering if you had a beginners category. And for those people that can't find a partner, or don't have the time, resources, inclination, whatever to practice for a comp, it does give them an opportunity to take part when they are there.

Agreed, see above. Perhaps it should be called a Newcomers (to competitions) class. Yes, partners and time to practise is always a challenge. I can see for some people DWAS is an opportunity to take part, but for me I wouldn't bother going to a competition unless I was in a 'proper' competition.:wink: Having unwittingly entered an Open competition for my first time, DWAS holds no appeal any more.


And, I have to be honest here. I really wouldn't want to watch a whole category of competition with people doing first move, man spin, repeat to end of song (I know that this is a bit of a generalisation, but you get the drift!).

Hey, that man spin thingy is pretty tricky you know! :rolleyes: I feel the same about watching DWAS. I'd rather watch paint dry. I've see people walking out in droves when DWAS comes on. Its soooo long and tedious. And the best 3 men win in the end! Surprise surprise. Good toilet break though. :wink:

I sometimes get the Freudian slip that DWAS is Dance With A Strangler... Now that might be interesting...

Patrick :flower:

[Ickle Chick'n]

Right...not much gets me worked up but I would like to say something here...

DWAS may not be for you, you are entitled to your view, however there are hundreds of people who love taking part in it, of ranging abilities, so there must be some interest.

You seem to be approaching this from your view if you were a beginner but it's not all that bad. My understanding of DWAS isn't as simple as the best man/lady wins, it's supposed to be about having fun, how well you interact and dance with your partner, how you connect etc not just how many flashy, complicated moves you can throw a follower into etc. I have also seen a great mix of abilities go through into final rounds of DWAS too.

I don't think, peronally, that a novice category would necessarily work
-If talking beg category I have managed to persuade a few beg level friends to enter DWAS as a bit of fun and for the experience, ther's no way a lot of these would have entered a beginner section as they'd feel they were being judged seriously against others and a lot of beginners lack confidence so shy away from such situations. Also where do you draw the line, can't measure by length of time you've been dancing as people progress as such different rates. (My partner for intermediates at BritRock has only been dancing 3 months and asked me a over month ago to partner him in this so we're giving it a go! Others I know have been dancing for over a year and can't string moves together at all.

-If you are talking beginners to competing then you are again judging people of completely ranging abilities from beginners - advanced as how do you say who can/can't join if the criteria is that you've never competed/won at previous comps? :confused:

I have drawn real beginners in DWAS comps before and them and I have still enjoyed just taking part in the comp and experiencing the atmosphere. I also actually drew SimonR at Weston and found it quite nerve wracking so there are always 2 sides!

Finally... it's sometimes more of a challenge to dance with a beginner and be considerate of their level and make it look good, not just throw them into stuff that might scare the life out of them, than to lead someone who is brilliant and dancers should show they can dance with all abilities, not just high level dancers. It also means people can come for the day so there's support and an audience and there is a category that everyone can enter to have a go even if they don't wan't to/can't afford time to finding a partner/practicing etc to compete seriously.

Some people like it, you don't... as I said you are entitled to your view and this is just mine.:flower:

[Mr Cool]

Apologies in advance, I'm feeling rather jaded about competitions at the moment. I have just lost my intermediates partner for Brit Rock, having worked with her for several months. (To keep things in perspective, fortunately that's not 'lost' in the shuffling-off-her-mortal-coils sense, just lost to me.):flower:

Many of us have not the time or inclination to prepare for competitions.
We just want to dance.
:yeah:


As a lead you have no chance of doing well unless you are one of the best leads, whatever the scheme for the rounds. Which means 90% of the guys know they are wasting their time in advance (from a competitve point of view), even if they draw Yuko. As a follower, you have a slightly better chance. Even if you are only fair to middling, you could do well if you get one of the strongest leads.:cool:

I disagree. Given impartial judging a rarity in the dance world. I think partner moving DWAS would be very competitive.

If I wanted to dance with Yuko or other experienced lady, I would do better just asking her in freestyle.

Come to think of it, I did ask her once, and she said no! Then she went and danced with some bloke called Phil??? But the odds are still better I think.:flower:

I am surprised Yuko refused you she is in one of the most pleasant and accommodating followers I have had the pleasure to dance with. I have danced with her many times as yet she has never refused me, she has occasionally asked me to dance which is always nice. :respect: :worthy: :worthy: :flower:

I believe dance should be judged on musicality and style including the ability to lead and follow with a variety of partners. what else is important?:cheers:

:waycool: :waycool: :waycool: :waycool:

[ElaineB]

Finally... it's sometimes more of a challenge to dance with a beginner and be considerate of their level and make it look good, not just throw them into stuff that might scare the life out of them, than to lead someone who is brilliant and dancers should show they can dance with all abilities, not just high level dancers.

One of the best dances that I ever saw in a DWAS competition was Mark James from Bristol dancing with a Lady who only had two lessons. He danced to her level, treated her with great kindness and you could see that she loved it.

That was DWAS at it's finest! :clap:

Elaine

[Minnie M]

One of the best dances that I ever saw in a DWAS competition was Mark James from Bristol dancing with a Lady who only had two lessons. He danced to her level, treated her with great kindness and you could see that she loved it.

That was DWAS at it's finest! :clap:

Elaine

My very first DWAS was in 1995 with Paul James - he won the Intermediate section the year before (the first year of any MJ competitions)

I had only been dancing a couple of months, but he was so considerate to my lack of knowledge he danced at my level and we got to the final (see the LeJive UK Champs 1995) :respect:

BTW made a special friend that day and we are still in contact :flower:

[Patrick]

Right...not much gets me worked up but I would like to say something here...

Some people like it, you don't... as I said you are entitled to your view and this is just mine.:flower:

Well put. :respect: Lovely to meet you (again) last night.

You ain't so Ickle, you're certainly not Chick'n, and (I hope) not angry any more. :hug: :kiss:

Have a great time at Brit Rock. :clap: :clap: There's just a chance I might still come...

If I don't do the Intermediates, that DWAS thingy could be a bit of fun instead... :eek: :rolleyes: :D

Who knows, you might draw me! :wink:

Patrick :flower: (Sense of humour failure now fixed. It's only a dance after all)

[Easter Bunny]

And, I have to be honest here. I really wouldn't want to watch a whole category of competition with people doing first move, man spin, repeat to end of song (I know that this is a bit of a generalisation, but you get the drift!).

:yeah: If I am paying up to £30 entrance for the day I want to watch dancers that can really dance, with some attitude.

[Easter Bunny]

And the best 3 men win in the end! Surprise surprise.Patrick :flower:

Oh sorry and there's me been thinking that that follower (usually a woman) might have done something towards winning DWAS:whistle:

For someone, who by his own admission has not done much competition and not been dancing for very long, this is a bit of a generalisation.

Maybe I will just stand there next time and conserve my energy for the evening's freestyle:angry:

Yes of course is helps if you get a good partner, but I know when I won at Britrock 2 years ago, it wasn't because I was the best dancer, but more the lead and follow between my partner and I was good.

You can have two excellent dancers together for DWAS, but if they both dance their own respective style and do not assimilate with each other they are unlikely to win.

You were either very brave or completely mad to make an 'Open' category your first competion.:worthy: