Keeping Beginners...

[wongd]

Guess I want the whole world to chill and dance. It's a shame so many get put off by their first go. If I were running CEROC, I'd commission one of those consultancy firms, to investiagte methods of improving capture and return rates.....but in the absence of that....some free brain storming

1. new starters get in for free for first 4 weeks
2. existing starters get in for free if they get one person to join
3. Good male leads (not necessarily taxi dancers get free entrance for every 10 new starter they dance with)
4. have a dance with a new starters themed night
5. play only chart music on new starters night
6. have a reduced fee concession for students and OAP's
7. create a team bonus for taxi dancers if they achieve a target on return rates

[TheTramp]

Hmmm. I like most of your ideas (even if they aren't going to happen)....
5. play only chart music on new starters nightNot sure about this one though. I guess this means that you like chart music, and thus are anticipating that all the new starters will too. Which is, if you'll excuse me, completely incorrect.

I'm not denying that a greater percentage of people probably do want the more charty type of music, and this is reflected in the fact that this is the majority of what's played on a night - particularly in London.

But to make the general assumption that it's what everyone wants or likes is a bit heavy handed. There's plenty of new starters especially away from London, where the average age is a lot higher, who don't just want to listen to chart music all night.

The whole idea, and selling point, of jive, is that you can dance to lots of different music from the last 80 years to it.....

Steve

[bigdjiver]

Originally posted by wongd
..some free brain storming

1. new starters get in for free for first 4 weeks
2. existing starters get in for free if they get one person to join
3. Good male leads (not necessarily taxi dancers get free entrance for every 10 new starter they dance with)
4. have a dance with a new starters themed night
5. play only chart music on new starters night
6. have a reduced fee concession for students and OAP's
7. create a team bonus for taxi dancers if they achieve a target on return rates
1) Reduction yes, free is too much. Too much incentive to join at N venues under N different names, for one thing.
2) No. You are paying them to do what they do naturally anyway, and the "You only invited me to get a rebate" factor is bad news.
3) No, their reward is to get worshipped like gods. "You only danced with me for money" How degrading is that?
4) What venue do you attend where beginners are not welcomed anyway?
5) I would say most Cerocers are trying to get away from the charts.
6) Our franchise offers many concessions, though I do not think pensioners are amongst them, and I would not change that.
7) I do not know many Taxi dancers that do it for financial considerations. I know some that lose money to do it.

[Wendy]

It's the really good dancers I would let in free to class nights. They are like taxi dancers anyway cos they have to dance with beginners so often. (I'm sure a lot of people get fed up after a while and only go to parties.) Surely the whole level of dancing would improve quicker, the beginners would get more of a buzz and the other more experienced dancers wouldn't get fed up and only go to parties ...... A BTC pass or something. I also think taxis should get a year's pass for every 6 months they are a taxi (ideally international (and that could include London ????!!!) free life membership (And I would promise not to abuse that in Oz or NZ - I don't get to go there that often !!!) but "people" would just laugh me off the forum more than they do already !!!.) Surely they are the kind of people who would add value to any event (especailly the classes - even if they aren't always the best dancers:tears: ) ????? And if they didn't add value, why are they taxis in the first place ???

100% of good and sociable dancers (taxis)are good and sociable dancers
30 - 40% (???) of beginners will be good and sociable dancers.
60 - 70% of beginners will get hooked

We all know it doesn't make business sense to attract new customers all the time when you have repeat business from happy existing cutomers ??? Don't we ????????

Wxxx

PS This might turn into what you'll never hear at a CEROC night !!!

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by wongd and bigdjiver
1. new starters get in for free for first 4 weeks
2. existing starters get in for free if they get one person to join
3. Good male leads (not necessarily taxi dancers get free entrance for every 10 new starter they dance with)
4. have a dance with a new starters themed night
5. play only chart music on new starters night
6. have a reduced fee concession for students and OAP's
7. create a team bonus for taxi dancers if they achieve a target on return rates

1) Reduction yes, free is too much. Too much incentive to join at N venues under N different names, for one thing.
2) No. You are paying them to do what they do naturally anyway, and the "You only invited me to get a rebate" factor is bad news.
3) No, their reward is to get worshipped like gods. "You only danced with me for money" How degrading is that?
4) What venue do you attend where beginners are not welcomed anyway?
5) I would say most Cerocers are trying to get away from the charts.
6) Our franchise offers many concessions, though I do not think pensioners are amongst them, and I would not change that.
7) I do not know many Taxi dancers that do it for financial considerations. I know some that lose money to do it.

1) good point - well spotted. Reduction is a good idea though.
2)Disagree with this - the original idea is ok but Id go for a reduction rather than a free night - it wouldnt be a big money earner but it may make people consider asking others to come along a bit more just becuase it acts as a reminder. The newcomers saying "you only invited me for a rebate" is easily countered with "but you loved it didnt you?" :)
3) Yeah this was a daft idea, don't people in some venues ever dance with beginners? as i've never been so fussy myself ill dance badly with anyone and don't need paid for it. :)
4)Agree with your point but the orignal point could be changed to 'advertise special newcomer nights' like gyms tend to do a lot.
5) Yup - a mix is better. You cant please all of the music lovers all of the time - just ask theTramp :)
6) Pensioner concessions is a great idea, theres been quite a few pensioners at venues ive been too and there could be more.
7)Taxi Dancers wouldnt do it if they didnt enjoy dancing with begginners would they? they'd all love extra benefits though - who wouldnt :)

[Gadget]

I agree with BigDJiver & Tramp, but have to add my $0.02…
{Huge post :sorry: - feel free to ignore}

Originally posted by wongd
If I were running CEROC, I'd commission one of those consultancy firms, to investigate methods of improving capture and return rates
What a waste of money! {Apologies to anyone who actually works as a consultant in this context, but I think they are a waste of space.} I would rather the money goes on reducing entrance fees or arranging more parties!


1. new starters get in for free for first 4 weeks
Perhaps with membership get a ‘free pass’ or discount voucher to induce the “I may as well go since I’ve already paid for it” mentality and give another change to get hooked. {I’m sure that Franc did do this at the time I joined… I think I still have the vouchers somewhere}. Ceroc is a business, not a highly addictive class ‘A’ drug – you can’t just hook people and have them dependant on you; {OK, so some people can get addicted, but people can dance anywhere, not just at Ceroc.}

2. existing starters get in for free if they get one person to join
Already had this discussion somewhere; the result I think was that pyramid schemes never work.

3. Good male leads (not necessarily taxi dancers) get free entrance for every 10 new starter they dance with
A couple of issues with this;
- who decides “Good”? and how do you avoid offending people that you pass up for this ‘opportunity’.
- why only male leads? Don’t the males need some good female followers?
- again, an issue with ‘free’ entrance
- why 10? I always make a point of trying to dance with every beginner I can, and there are not enough songs to dance with ten, even if there were ten beginners to dance with. If you dance with one twice, does that count?
- How do you define ‘starter’? How would you mark your dance card? How would you avoid ‘cheating’?…{thinking- a roll of stickers to the beginners would work}
IMHO there are too many negatives to make this a viable option; the whole concept of the franchise rewarding dancers for dancing with beginners is not viable – the reward should be from within the dancer and their long-term status and “godhood”. {or BTC status}

4. have a dance with a new starters themed night
Same sort of problems with this one; why exclude one section of dancers that could inspire the beginners and give them a goal to strive towards? I think that a development from this idea would be a ‘ladies’ night where only the ladies were allowed to ask for dances {yes/no?}

5. play only chart music on new starters night
Euch! Bad assumption that beginners only want to hear chart music – this again has been talked over in another thread – perhaps have a themed night/party to give people the option of attending or abstaining, but to have it ‘forced’ upon a regular night or a beginner’s night would have the opposite effect from the one you are looking for

6. have a reduced fee concession for students and OAP's
I’m sure that there is a concession system in place already?

7. create a team bonus for taxi dancers if they achieve a target on return rates
team bonuses only work for a sales force where the sales person will never see/speak to that person beyond the initial sale – they encourage high-pressure and hastle tequniques that put stress onto the ‘customer’; exactly what you want to avoid. The main perk for a taxi dancer {from what they have posted} is the beginner getting hooked and improving – there is also the added bonus that when they get good, they will seek you out to dance.

I know that there were a lot of negatives, but keep the ideas coming – I have had lot’s shot down; see the Privilaged Membership Scheme (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=652) or Frequent Fliers (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=653), and I’m sure that there were lots more last year (a quick search of the forum only went so far)


Wendy did say…
It's the really good dancers I would let in free to class nights. They are like taxi dancers anyway cos they have to dance with beginners so often.
I like the concept of passing some sort of test for a reduced fee {free is a bit much to ask}

I also think taxis should get a year's pass for every 6 months they are a taxi ~snip~ and free life membership.
I don’t know what the perks are to being a taxi, but a long-term reward sounds like an excellent idea.

We all know it doesn't make business sense to attract new customers all the time when you have repeat business from happy existing cutomers ??? Don't we ????????
Stagnant business model… did you just throw that in for bait?? {tramp, you got a smiley for fish-hooked? :wink:}

[wongd]

the great thing about brainstorming is some of the ideas can be as "out there" as your imagination lets you

When I said chart music, I meant any music that has an easy to hear beat, that people who feel clumsy, uncordinated can here....which gives me some more ideas...

8. Option for Beginners to be fast track (push the workshops) - that is really pushed without mercy
9. Private Coaching lessons
10. Style/timing improvement clinics
11. A formal Certification process - each week a beginner is assessed to see how well the basic 20 moves have been mastered - A bit like a MOT - optional only
12. Class of membership - Gold/platinum
13. loyalty cards (come twice, get in free 3rd time)
14. Regular poll on music that DJ must play in freestyle

[Wendy]

Maybe if our opinions were valued someone would ask for them once in a while... (I'm talking about taxis here)

Anyway. I'm not going to get into this (now) cos I don't want to get crabby before the champs !!!

:kiss:

:hug:

:kiss:

Wxxxxxxxxxx

[Gadget]

Originally posted by wongd
When I said chart music, I meant any music that has an easy to hear beat, that people who feel clumsy, uncordinated can here.
To be quite honest, I don't know what music you could be referring to that you find it hard to hear the beat on - {with a couple of rare exceptions} and anyway, shouldn't you be dancing to the song rather than the beat?


8. Option for Beginners to be fast track (push the workshops) - that is really pushed without mercy
I think that needs to be up to the individual; if you were really keen, you could be at a class in Scotland every night of the week, and a party and/or workshop every weekend! - how much more "fast-track" can you get?

9. Private Coaching lessons
Could Taxi dancers offer this service on a semi-official basis? I like the idea; I think that Horsey_Dude started a thread on a similar note {that Chickie rapidly degraded into escort services}
The other alternative is to just approach someone who you think is good and ask them - what's the worst that could happen?

10. Style/timing improvement clinics
Ain't that called 'workshops'? or do you mean a regular night dedicated to tequnique and style tips rather than moves?

11. A formal Certification process - each week a beginner is assessed to see how well the basic 20 moves have been mastered - A bit like a MOT - optional only
I like the idea, but I think that your implementation needs a bit of refining; the time that would take from the taxi's/teachers is too much to do every week - perhaps a mothly thing? or a certificate after each workshop you attend to grade your performance?

12. Class of membership - Gold/platinum
so what were you thinking the perks of each would be, and what would yo pay?

13. loyalty cards (come twice, get in free 3rd time)
already thought of that - but the "buy two, get one free" is a bit much; remember that Ceroc is a business for Franck.

14. Regular poll on music that DJ must play in freestyle
Must play?! {shudder} there is enough repeat tracks already - and that's what the "DJ-Booth" area of the forum is for - some DJ's post their play-list's every now & again for feed-back.

Another idea; spot prizes of Ceroc merchandise {car stickers, bugs, badges, t-shirts... free advertising} handed out by the teacher for whatever reason they feel like on that night to whomever they think deserves it.

[Graham]

Too busy packing to think about this much, but just wanted to say I like some of the ideas, and and I'd be interested to hear some from other people, rather than a load of explanations why you don't think Desmond's would work!

[bigdjiver]

Wendy: It's the really good dancers I would let in free to class nights.
I think you are on the right track here, we want to see and dance with the better dancers. Better dancers tend to be keener dancers. This is why I advocate good discounts on "season ticket" like schemes. Ceroc Central do a Gold and Platinum(inc freestyle) cards scheme with a photo card to prevent abuse. This encourages the keenest dancers to come more often, and has the same effect as paying them to do so.

Dreadful Scathe:
The newcomers saying "you only invited me for a rebate" is easily countered with "but you loved it didnt you?"
Not in my book. There is a saying like "There is none so devout as the newly converted." Those that love it will tell their friends, and drag them along. Most of you got here that way.

'advertise special newcomer nights' like gyms tend to do.
No, potential members will get the idea that beginners are not always welcome. Those who miss it may wait until the next one comes around.

wongd: 8. Option for Beginners to be fast track (push the workshops) - that is really pushed without mercy

Most people who book for a beginners workshop do not really need it by the time it comes around.
I think beginners workshops should be pushed as a product. A perfect Birthday / Anniversary present for a couple who do not play together enough. Acquire a social skill that will last as long as Elvis etc This could be QVC channel type product, and be a good reason for some of the breakaway franchises to come back to the Ceroc fold.

Ceroc Bromley used to run a special beginners venue, with two beginners lessons a night.

11. A formal Certification process - each week a beginner is assessed to see how well the basic 20 moves have been mastered - A bit like a MOT - optional only

A big No-No in my book. Moves Ceroc subtly away from the social scene to a competitive one. Some people who had not got their certificate would feel inferior. Even more would think, wrongly, that they could not make the standard, and give up. Too many are lost to this mistaken belief already. It is easy to forget how amazing, complex and unattainable a simple beginners routine looks to somebody that has not seen the dance before.

12. Class of membership - Gold/platinum / 13. loyalty cards (come twice, get in free 3rd time) No, see answer to Wendy above.

14. Regular poll on music that DJ must play in freestyle
Anybody can make suggestios as it is. having a poll on the tracks we like is a good idea, why don't we indicate the ones we like by all getting up and dancing to them? Sarcasm aside, a good DJ works from reaction already.

[DavidB]

Originally posted by Gadget
To be quite honest, I don't know what music you could be referring to that you find it hard to hear the beat on - {with a couple of rare exceptions} and anyway, shouldn't you be dancing to the song rather than the beat? Hearing the beat isn't the problem. It is trying to do something else with someone else to the beat all at the same time that is the problem.

And beginners should dance to the beat - not the song. Modern Jive is popular because it is simple to learn. I know I can make it sound complicated, but that is only for people who want to take it seriously. Keep it as simple as possible for beginners. (I know you occasionally get a newcomer who can interpret the music on their first night, but they are not beginners - they are advanced dancers without any experience.)

David

[DavidY]

Apologies but this ended up really long :sorry - feel free to skip!

I was one of those beginners who came to Ceroc once and walked away, when I first joined Ceroc several years ago, so I hope these thoughts help. It was only a few years later when other people recommended Ceroc that I went back again and second time around I kept coming back. (This is now very annoying as if I'd stayed first time I might be almost competent by now!)

I think that the crucial time is just after the first beginners' lesson. I seem to remember that when I 1st went to Ceroc, I stayed through the lesson, but didn't enjoy the freestyle section that followed, and probably left after half an hour. I can't remember whether back then the Taxi dancers did the beginners' refresher session that they do now at that venue - if I'd known & stayed for that, I think that would have helped.

I also think that the factors that make beginners stay are different depending whether you're male or female, because learning to lead is different to learning to follow (and spin!). I can't really comment on what it feels like to be a female beginner though, so what follows is from my male perspective.

I dunno if people heard the James Cronin interview on that Radio 4 programme the other day, but he described how he felt the 1st time he danced with someone, and what it's like trying to lead a dance through a whole record when you only know 3 or 4 moves. I felt exactly the same when I started - when trying to lead you can feel very inadequate because you only know a few moves and only in one order, and it feels like your partner gets very bored. (Suggestion: DJs should aim to play short tracks just after beginners' lessons so that new men don't have to repeat their moves too many times with the same person!).

For me it was only when I started to remember moves from week to week, and I started to work out how to string them together, that I started to feel a bit more confident about asking people to dance. I guess this may be something which taxi dancers could help people with, and I think trying to help people to remember last weeks' moves as well as this weeks' would be a good thing. I think if beginners were enouraged more to make a note of which moves they've done, and to ask taxis if they want help to remember them, then this would help beginners to remember a repertoire of moves.

I think also it's important for female Taxi & other dancers to encourage beginning men by asking them to dance - if you're surrounded by what feels like a roomful of expert dancers and you know you only know a few moves, I found it really hard to ask someone to dance and ended up as a wallflower watching from the sidelines (suspect I'll feel the same way in London tomorrow!)

I don't think financial incentives to beginners would have made any difference at all to me - if I don't enjoy something on the first night, then even if I can come back the next 10 times for free, I still won't be back!

Apologies that this is really long - better go and start packing now for the championships tomorrow ..

David

[Graham W]

I beleive that quality dancers help set the tone as teachers - theres a salsa class here with 5 / 6 top notch dancers who teach & it seems to have plenty of beginners. also where I help out too - as a beginner I much preferred being taught by a good dancer rather then a good 'teacher' , but thats a personal opinion I know.. G

[Emma]

Originally posted by Graham W
I much preferred being taught by a good dancer rather then a good 'teacher' , but thats a personal opinion I know.. G If your 'good dancer' wasn't also a good teacher then you wouldn't enjoy being taught by them.......

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Graham
...explanations why you don't think Desmond's would work!
:sorry:
Originally posted by BigDJiver
Ceroc Central do a Gold and Platinum(inc freestyle) cards scheme
How do these actually work?

I think beginners workshops should be pushed as a product.
I like this idea, and have sugested before that this is the one area that seems to be overlooked in the whole Ceroc franchise (or at least not promoted as much as I would.)

Ceroc Bromley used to run a special beginners venue, with two beginners lessons a night.
If there was enough interest (ie you were running three or four nights in the same area already) then this would definetly be worth doing.

Some people who had not got their certificate would feel inferior. Even more would think, wrongly, that they could not make the standard, and give up.
I see your point, but I can't make up my mind if some sort of reward scheme for beginners would be a good or bad thing.

Originally posted by DavidY
For me it was only when I started to remember moves from week to week, and I started to work out how to string them together, that I started to feel a bit more confident about asking people to dance. ~snip~ I think if beginners were enouraged more to make a note of which moves they've done, and to ask taxis if they want help to remember them, then this would help beginners to remember a repertoire of moves.
I think that wat came accross in your post was the strong role that Taxi dancers should (or actually do) take in keeping beginners - this is one of the main things that makes Ceroc, Ceroc.

I think also it's important for female Taxi & other dancers to encourage beginning men by asking them to dance
I think that having the ladies ask the men is something that there is a distinct lack of, even in the more experianced dancers.

Originally posted by Emma
If your 'good dancer' wasn't also a good teacher then you wouldn't enjoy being taught by them.......
I think that what was meant by Graham W is that you learn lots by just dancing with good dancers, and that if more beginners were to dance with more good dancers then more would stay. {yes/no?}

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Graham
and and I'd be interested to hear some from other people, rather than a load of explanations why you don't think Desmond's would work!

Wouldnt be brain storming if we just moved from suggestion to suggestion without discussing the ideas would it ! :)

[Jon]

Originally posted by wongd
7. create a team bonus for taxi dancers if they achieve a target on return rates
I wouldn't be a taxi dancer if I felt like a salesman!. Although it would be nice if Ceroc would allow free entry to all venues in any franchise for taxi dancers, it might help attract good dancers to other venues.

8. Option for Beginners to be fast track (push the workshops) - that is really pushed without mercy
I agree having done loads of workshops myself I know how good they are, the trouble is finding them. Only central London seem to run them regularly. When someone starts they will want to do a workshop probably within the next 6 weeks inorder to really master the basics. Otherwise they will probably just jump into the intermediate lesson and then think its hard and get frustrated.

9. Private Coaching lessons
Someone said the taxi dancers could teach this. Why not. In fact this maybe away for Ceroc to see which taxi dancers would make good teachers.

How about splitting the taxi's up in a class or having more than 2 at busy venues. 1 taxi can go over the beginner class. The other do an easy intermediate routing of say 3 moves to help them make the jump from beginner to intermediate. Especially as some moves in the intermediate class can sometimes be at an advanced level might help give them more confidence.

10. Style/timing improvement clinics
Same answer as 9

11. A formal Certification process - each week a beginner is assessed to see how well the basic 20 moves have been mastered - A bit like a MOT - optional only
No. Remember exams at school!

13. loyalty cards (come twice, get in free 3rd time)
I know 1 venue 'Just Jivin' that when I started I think they did something like. First night was £5. Then you got vouchers. 2nd week £1, 3rd week £2 then £5. Plus if you introduce a friend then you get in for £1 that night.

14. Regular poll on music that DJ must play in freestyle
I think a poll is good for the dj to judge what music the people like at that venue, but please dont play the same every week.

[bigdjiver]

Ceroc Central do a Gold and Platinum(inc freestyle) cards scheme. It is a simple season ticket scheme. The member pays a lump sum up front, gets a card with their photo on it and the expiry date, and attends as many class nights as they like in the franchise area. The Platinum card includes freestyle nights.



if more beginners were to dance with more good dancers then more would stay. {yes/no?}
Some good dancers will dance with beginners with a bored, or even contemptuous, look on their face. Very off-putting.


and and I'd be interested to hear some from other people, rather than a load of explanations why you don't think Desmond's would work!
I have been rather hard on many ideas. Ever since I started Ceroc I have been fascinated by the business model, and being trying to find ways of improving the marketing. I think every idea I have seen I have had myself, and rejected when they were my own.
I will put up another one to shoot at:- If it were I running things then I would try handing out printed sheets / cards diagramming this weeks moves to beginners, as a memory aid. This would be part of the beginner package, not an extra cost as at present. This way the beginner could do their homework.

[Gadget]

Originally posted by bigdjiver
Some good dancers will dance with beginners with a bored, or even contemptuous, look on their face. Very off-putting.
What a way to loose dancers!! I know that the "smile" is taught from the stage up here, but I thought it was just as a joke; I don't think I could dance with a bored or serious expression! {Worried :sick: or concentration :what: I can do, but it's normally :nice: or :D}


If it were I running things then I would try handing out printed sheets / cards diagramming this weeks moves to beginners, as a memory aid. This would be part of the beginner package, not an extra cost as at present. This way the beginner could do their homework.
If it's not going to be an extra cost, who's going to pay for it? I think that it's a good idea to have the beginner's class moves in a print-out, perhaps available at a nominal fee (50p?) at the end of the class or during the intermediate class when the taxi-dancers are working. This way it is available to those who want it (first timer's, beginners or whoever) and you don't have to increase membership or decide who's a "beginner".
The one majour draw-back I can see is the "stealing" of classes and moves; a printed template with a watermark could reduce the 'photocopying' fear, but would mean that every sheet would need to be printed and not just photocopied.
You also then don't allow for the teacher changing or swapping moves on the night, since you would probably have to pre-print the class.

[Divissima]

DavidY wrote:I was one of those beginners who came to Ceroc once and walked away, when I first joined Ceroc several years ago, so I hope these thoughts help. ...I think that the crucial time is just after the first beginners' lesson. I seem to remember that when I 1st went to Ceroc, I stayed through the lesson, but didn't enjoy the freestyle section that followed, and probably left after half an hour. I can't remember whether back then the Taxi dancers did the beginners' refresher session that they do now at that venue - if I'd known & stayed for that, I think that would have helped.I hope it wasn't back when I used to be a taxi dancer in Nottingham, David :wink:

[DavidY]

Originally posted by Divissima
I hope it wasn't back when I used to be a taxi dancer in Nottingham, David :wink:

Depends - were you at West Bridgford in early October 1997...?

David

[Rachel]

Originally posted by DavidY
I felt exactly the same when I started - when trying to lead you can feel very inadequate because you only know a few moves and only in one order, and it feels like your partner gets very bored. David David, I enjoyed reading your post - you made some really good points. I think you're right - when I'm taxiing, so many people say that they can't remember anything other than this week's moves and don't know how to freestyle.

So what I often do with people who have been a few weeks is dance through the current routine with them a couple of times, then change one of the moves to one they'd done in a previous week - like change the catapult to a windmill. Then we add another move to the end of the routine, and a bit later change one of the other moves in the routine to something else they've done, etc etc. So they gradually refresh their memory of previous moves and learn how to mix them up a bit. It's fun anyway - and a bonus for me, as I get to do more than 4 moves with them. Or is that what taxi-dancers generally do, anyway?

(Actually, David - I keep wondering if we've met, since you're from Nottingham. Marc's done a couple of classes and freestyles there and I've been demonstrating. In fact, we've got a few classes lined up to do at West Bridgeford from next week. If you're about, do come and say hello!)

Rachel

[Divissima]

DavidY wrote:were you at West Bridgford in early October 1997...?phew! No, I used to taxi at the Marcus Garvey Centre from 1998 - 9. Great crowd there...

[DavidY]

Originally posted by Rachel
(Actually, David - I keep wondering if we've met, since you're from Nottingham. Marc's done a couple of classes and freestyles there and I've been demonstrating. In fact, we've got a few classes lined up to do at West Bridgeford from next week. If you're about, do come and say hello!)
Rachel Hi Rachel,

I think I finally worked out who you are - the 'Absolute Beginner' bit under your name kind of fooled me (I think this forum has a new and radically different meaning of the word 'Beginner' which the dictionary compilers have so far been unaware of...).

I'm pretty sure I've danced with you (in Nottingham & maybe ages ago in Kettering I think) & I do go to W Bridgford (just come back from there in fact) so a good chance I'll be around to ask you for a dance.

See you soon,
David

[Rachel]

Originally posted by DavidY
Hi Rachel,

I think I finally worked out who you are - the 'Absolute Beginner' bit under your name kind of fooled me (I think this forum has a new and radically different meaning of the word 'Beginner' which the dictionary compilers have so far been unaware of...).

I'm pretty sure I've danced with you (in Nottingham & maybe ages ago in Kettering I think) & I do go to W Bridgford (just come back from there in fact) so a good chance I'll be around to ask you for a dance.

See you soon,
David Excellent - looking forward to meeting and dancing with you (again)! We'll be there tomorrow night (Marc's teaching and, as far as I know, I'll be demo'ing) and for the following 2 Thursdays.
See you soon!
Rachel

[TheTramp]

Are you still coming down to Hipsters tonight then Rachel??

Steve

[Rachel]

Originally posted by TheTramp
Are you still coming down to Hipsters tonight then Rachel??

Steve That's the plan! Spent ALL day yesterday asleep (Camber recovery) - now more than ready to get out dancing again.
R.

[TheTramp]

Wheeeee :D

See you tonight then....

Steve

[Jon]

Originally posted by Rachel
So what I often do with people who have been a few weeks is dance through the current routine with them a couple of times, then change one of the moves to one they'd done in a previous week. Or is that what taxi-dancers generally do, anyway?

Rachel what I tend to do with a beginner is:
1 - Do the class routine once or twice through.
2 - If they are following well then I start to have fun by changing the sequence of those 4 moves. I think this teaches them to follow and not predict.
3 - If all is going well then start adding extra beginner moves in.
4 - If they're still following then addin some simple intermediate moves.

If at anytime I see they're stuggling then I go back a step.

[DavidY]

Originally posted by Jon
Rachel what I tend to do with a beginner is:
1 - Do the class routine once or twice through.
2 - If they are following well then I start to have fun by changing the sequence of those 4 moves. I think this teaches them to follow and not predict.
3 - If all is going well then start adding extra beginner moves in.
4 - If they're still following then addin some simple intermediate moves.

If at anytime I see they're stuggling then I go back a step.

I think this looks like a very sensible approach when teaching beginners who are following.

But how would you teach male beginners to lead...?

David

[benvenuto]

One simple way of getting beginners to stay is to make it OK for them to just dance. I’m sure you all recognise this Ceroc scenario:
Loads of women - too few men. Some of the women decide to have a disco dance with each other thinking, reasonably enough, “I’ve paid my money I might as well have a dance”. Cue - some dirty looks from the one or two Ceroc snobs that every place has.

If whoever is taking the class could, now and again, just announce that it if anyone is without a partner it would be be fine just to get up and dance, then many of those beginners who feel that it’s not worth coming back might just return.

Many of my female friends complain about this. Even at the parties they feel a bit nervous about just getting up for a wee dance together.