Jive Masters Competition

[TheTramp]

For anyone in or around London this Sunday there is a new, invitation only, competition being run by CerocMetro at Chigwell.

Have a look at the website, and if you can, come and support Debster and I who are competing against very, very tough competition.

CerocMetro Website (http://www.cerocmetro.com/latest_news.html)

If you can't make it, send lots of good vibes instead :D :hug:

Steve

[Wendy]

"Good vibes" instead.

:kiss: :hug: :cheers:

Wxxx

[Tiggerbabe]

and here's some more!

All the best guys - knock 'em dead!:hug: :hug:

[Rachel]

Hi Steve - not seen you around for a while. Hope you're ok. I'm going to make every effort to be there on Sunday - it sounds fantastic. The chance to just sit and watch all that talent on display is tooo irresistible.

Wishing you and Debster all the very best of luck. I still haven't met Debster formally, but I think I've seen her dancing at Hipsters and she's got a gorgeous style. You'll look good together. Have fun!
Rachel

[TheTramp]

Oh cool :) Be great to see you again Rachel.

Save me lots of dances after the competition please..!!

Steve

[Debster]

Hey guys :D !

:kiss: Big THANKS for the good vibes, I can feel them working already!!!! :D Steve and I had a good practise at Fulham tonight and I think it will be a scream!

YAY!! Lots of dancing weekend!! YAY!!

Do come and say hello formally Rachel! :)

(I SO love these hugging smilies! Hugs are so good.)
:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

Have a great weekend everyone!

[TheTramp]

When Debs says that it'll be a scream, I'm sure that she actually means she'll be having fun. And not that she'll be screaming at the way I dance.

Probably.

:what:

Steve

[Divissima]

And not that she'll be screaming at the way I dance.are you sure?? Or is that just my job? ;)
The incomparable TwK and I are planning to be there to cheer you on...
Can't wait :waycool:

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Divissima
are you sure?? Or is that just my job? ;)
The incomparable TwK and I are planning to be there to cheer you on...
Can't wait :waycool: Cool :waycool:

Is Toby going to being the Video Camera.

And if he wasn't, would he, if I asked really nicely? :D

Steve

[Divissima]

Is Toby going to being the Video Camera.

I can ask him - he's a generous kind of guy *swoon* (note to Franck: need a swoon smiley) :drool:

And if he wasn't, would he, if I asked really nicely?
You could try, but he only has eyes for me (or so he tells me)... :wink: When he asks you to dance, he's really thinking of me :wink: :eek:

See you Sunday, Steve. Where are you dancing tomorrow night - might see you there first! :hug:

[TheTramp]

Going to St. Marys tonight, and probably to Battersea tomorrow night.

Hope to catch up at either (both) of these. Just so you can start giving me all the dances you owe me. 3.5 hours at Hammersmith, and not a single dance :tears:

Steve

[Divissima]

I'll be at St Mary's tonight but probably High Wycombe tomorrow.

As for Hammersmith, I was otherwise engaged... :wink: :waycool:

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Divissima
I'll be at St Mary's tonight but probably High Wycombe tomorrow.

As for Hammersmith, I was otherwise engaged... :wink: :waycool: High Wycombe? That hotbed of international dance superstardom?? Look forward to seeing you tonight anyhow....

As for Hammersmith. That HD has a lot to answer for!!! :wink:

Steve

[Divissima]

Originally posted by TheTramp
High Wycombe? That hotbed of international dance superstardom?? Hey! No dissing Ceroc Chilterns, thank you very much! :reallymad
I shall look forward to my dances tonight - and maybe hope for more on Sunday :wink:

[Will]

Excellent,

Looks like we are in for a good night at St Mary's tonight. Still trying to make up my mind about tomorrow, but leaning towards Battersea. I gather it's open till 12.30am this time.

Will

[LilyB]

Originally posted by Will
Still trying to make up my mind about tomorrow, but leaning towards Battersea. I gather it's open till 12.30am this time.

Will
So, peeps, is it to be Battersea or Ashtons tomorrow? I would go to Battersea but the last time we were there they fininshed at 11:30pm! That's despite advertising that the evening was from 8-12. Notwithstanding that, we did have a great time - excellent music and nice floor. And of course, the presence of the smooth, the suave, the super-cool Will Hargreaves! :waycool::waycool: :waycool: In his eye-catching baco-foil trousers, I might add. :wink:

LilyB

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Debster
Do come and say hello formally Rachel! :) I will do! You're the one with long red hair and a figure to die for, aren't you? (jealous, jealous ...!!!)

Oh, Lily - come over to Ashtons tomorrow. Tell you what, if you do, I'll give you exclusive rights to Marc for ... oh, several dances (I know he loves dancing with you, so he'd be more than pleased with that).

And I'd love some more dances with David myself - I think I'm beginning to do a little better at following, and he had some brilliant tricks and tips at Hipsters the other night!

Rachel

[Mike]

Have heard there is a list floating around of who was competing in the Jive Masters.

Has anybody got a copy?

I am interested to see who is competing. Would love to make the trip down to see this event.

Mike

[Divissima]

Have heard there is a list floating around of who was competing in the Jive Masters. Has anybody got a copy?
If you follow the hyperlink on the Tramp's opening post on this thread it'll tell you who is competing this weekend. I don't know of any definitive list - (I'm always the last one to know the gossip anyway :tears: :tears: ) - but further info on Ceroc Metro website as it is sorted out. The comp is over several months so I doubt that there's a definitive list yet of who will be competing and when....

[Divissima]

the presence of the smooth, the suave, the super-cool Will Hargreaves! In his eye-catching baco-foil trousers I've seen the trousers too - or should I say, I've been dazzled by them!:wink: :waycool: Just waiting for Will to pipe up with his usual baseless claim that they are in fact metallic denim :wink:
You know I love a man in outrageous clothing (the replendent TwK not being shy about things sartorial) - sounds as though you'd agree, Lily!

[TheTramp]

Ummmm.

There is no list of who is competing over the following months (that I'm aware of anyhow). Last time I spoke to Nigel, he was being very tight-lipped about it all, so I doubt that such a list exists, but could be wrong of course.

I can't go to Ashtons, so I'll be at Battersea, or nothing at all. Why don't you come down there Rachel :hug:

Steve

[LilyB]

Originally posted by Divissima
You know I love a man in outrageous clothing (the replendent TwK not being shy about things sartorial) - sounds as though you'd agree, Lily!
That I do. Mr TwK is indeed always resplendent, more often than not with a touch of the outrageous - he certainly knows how to please his lady!:wink:

Hmmm, wonder if we can convert our other men ie. David, Will, Tramps into some outre dance togs - all in the best of taste, of course!!! :yum: :wink:

LilyB

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by LilyB
That I do. Mr TwK is indeed always resplendent, more often than not with a touch of the outrageous - he certainly knows how to please his lady!:wink:

Hmmm, wonder if we can convert our other men ie. David, Will, Tramps into some outre dance togs - all in the best of taste, of course!!! :yum: :wink:

LilyB No.

Steve

[Divissima]

That I do. Mr TwK is indeed always resplendent, more often than not with a touch of the outrageous - he certainly knows how to please his lady! :drool: Yes - he is undoubtedly wonderful... *swoon* I am more than a little biased, though
:wink:
Hmmm, wonder if we can convert our other men ie. David, Will, Tramps into some outre dance togs - all in the best of taste, of course!!! Ooh yes please!!:wink: :waycool: That would be awesome. Will has his bacofoil garments already and The Tramp can turn on the outre when he wishes - I don't think I've seen the magnificent DavidB in anything verging on outrageous though, or even bordering on questionable taste. I think he isn't really trying!:wink: :wink:
Twk has some new sexy trews for Hammersmith - :waycool: Can't wait to see your costume - you are always dazzling. I'm going to have to go shopping in the US sometime soon!
Will I see you tonight, Lily? Hope so :nice:

[Divissima]

No.

Steve Quite how you have the nerve to say that, I just don't know...:waycool:

[TheTramp]

Hey. You know me.

Just wear boring black all the time. Mostly. :waycool:

Steve

[Mike]

Originally posted by Divissima
If you follow the hyperlink on the Tramp's opening post on this thread it'll tell you who is competing this weekend. I don't know of any definitive list - (I'm always the last one to know the gossip anyway :tears: :tears: ) - but further info on Ceroc Metro website as it is sorted out. The comp is over several months so I doubt that there's a definitive list Thank you, I should have tried the link earlier.

Looks like an amazing lineup of talent.....did I count 12 1st place's between the 4 couples.....just amazing!

I will definitely make the effort to be there.

[TheTramp]

Looks like an amazing lineup of talentAnd beginners. :na:

Steve

[Divissima]

Mike wrote:I will definitely make the effort to be there.Fab! Look forward to meeting you - hope to have a dance or two. :wink:

[Mike]

Originally posted by TheTramp
And beginners. :na:

Steve

Between you & your partner I count 5 1st's, 3 2nd's & a 3rd!

I hope to begin like that!!!!!

Mike

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Mike
Between you & your partner I count 5 1st's, 3 2nd's & a 3rd!

I hope to begin like that!!!!!

Mike I've always been lucky in getting great partners who more than compensate for my inability to dance.

I have no idea why!! :D

Steve

[DavidB]

Originally posted by LilyB
Hmmm, wonder if we can convert our other men ie. David, Will, Tramps into some outre dance togs - all in the best of taste, of course!!! Fat chance! The closest I get to being trendy is not tucking my shirt in.

And there is no way I will ever wear another pair of combat trousers...

[Franck]

Originally posted by DavidB
And there is no way I will ever wear another pair of combat trousers... Why??? What happened to the first one? :wink:

Franck.

[Chicklet]

Originally posted by DavidB
And there is no way I will ever wear another pair of combat trousers... Were they not tassley enough??

[DavidB]

Originally posted by Franck
Why??? What happened to the first one? They got very muddy as I was running around the Brecon Beacons.

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by DavidB
They got very muddy as I was running around the Brecon Beacons. My. What a strange thing to be doing in combat trousers.

Didn't you realise at the time that they are intended only for dancing, and should be put to no other use??

Steve

[TheTramp]

So. First round over.

Debster and I came second, scoring an average 16 out of 20 from the 83 judges that marked us!

It appears that we're also into the final.

Can I just thank Debs for dancing with me. It was something to remember :D :hug:

Steve

[Wendy]

Originally posted by TheTramp
It was something to remember Congrats wee chum !!!! Bet you were both awesome !!!

:hug: :kiss: :hug:

Wxxx

[Divissima]

I'll say! :grin: You guys were amazing - I especially liked the (unrehearsed) part where Deb hit Adam Nathanson with your baseball cap! :waycool:
Congratulations, Steve. Sorry I had to leave without seeing you to pat you on the back (or without a dance - will be content with my three from Friday evening):waycool:
Clayton and Janine were also on top form - and a joy to watch - as ever.
Can't wait until next month :grin:

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Divissima
You guys were amazing - I especially liked the (unrehearsed) part where Deb hit Adam Nathanson with your baseball cap! :waycool: Aww....Thanks Divi! :D

Don't tell Adam though. But that move with the baseball cap was actually rehearsed. Unfortunately, I forgot the cap with the razor edge (akin to Oddjob in the James Bond film). So Adam survives to dance another day :D

Steve

[Divissima]

:eek:
I'll watch out for your poison-spike dance shoes, you fiend!

[TheTramp]

C'mon now. Who told you about those???

Mind you, I only use those on people who stand 3 feet into the dance floor to watch or chat, when there just isn't enough room on the dance floor already, without trying to avoid them too.

Are some people just born stupid, or do they learn it as they grow???

Steve

[Divissima]

I know what you mean - that's got to be one of the most annoying habits around...

[Wendy]

Originally posted by Divissima
I know what you mean - that's got to be one of the most annoying habits around... Up here we just do a thwack or kick (always stylish, of course!!) until they get the hint... sorted !!! :wink:

Wxxx

[Debster]

Hey, thank you Steve! And thanks to everyone else for the good vibes, whether you were present or absent. It's so fantastic to get such great support. (from everyone except that woman in the bathroom complaining about not wanting to have to watch some competition and losing out her freestyle time... so go dance somewhere else lady!)

And it's true, we did rehearse throwing the cap at Adam, unfortunately it wasn't supposed to actually happen! Ooops!

Now must dash to practise for next weekend...

So much dancing - so little time!

[Emma]

yes but how did it go???

[TheTramp]

Go back a bit in the thread :) I did say already, before it kinda got hijacked!!

There were 83 judges, and we scored an average 16 out of 20 from them. Unfortunately, Clayton and Janine scored an average 17 out of 20, so just pipped us on the night.

However, we are both through to the finals, so it was a successful night....

Steve

[Rachel]

Steve, Debs - you were both amazing!!! I could have sat and watched you all night. Definitely worth an hour and a half's car journey to get there. And I'm already looking forward to seeing you in the finals!
Rachel

[TheTramp]

Awww :) Thanks Rachel... :hug:

It was all Debs though. Trust me.

Steve

[Tiggerbabe]

I'm a bit late (and I know Steve, what else is new?:sorry ) but sincere congratulations to you both.
Really looking forward to this weekend and seeing you both again - :hug: :hug: Well done!

[TheTramp]

Thank you Miss Sheena :)

Looking forward to seeing you and all the other Scottish people down for the competition too :D :hug:

Steve

[TheTramp]

For anyone in/around London on Sunday, it's the 2nd round of the Jive Masters competition, and a pretty strong line up of competitors this month. Definitely worth paying a visit if you've got nothing else on.

Competitors are:
Simon Selmon & Taina Kortelainen
Graham LeClerc & Sarah Johnson
Dan Slape & Andrea Sulston
Nicky Haslem & Robert Winter

Have a look at the web site for more details: www.cerocmetro.com

Steve

[Rachel]

Originally posted by TheTramp
For anyone in/around London on Sunday, it's the 2nd round of the Jive Masters competition, and a pretty strong line up of competitors this month. Definitely worth paying a visit if you've got nothing else on.

Competitors are:
Simon Selmon & Taina Kortelainen
Graham LeClerc & Sarah Johnson
Dan Slape & Andrea Sulston
Nicky Haslem & Robert Winter

Have a look at the web site for more details: www.cerocmetro.com

Steve That is, a week on Sunday - 25th - yes?

And, yes, I definitely want to see that - it'll be a tough round!
Rachel

[TheTramp]

Oops. Yes. Thanks Rachel. A week on Sunday. The 25th.

I kinda lose track of the days at the moment!!

Steve

[Rachel]

Did anyone make it to Chigwell last Sunday? (Apologies to all those in Scotland, for whom it might have been a bit too far!)

What was it like? What were the results? What were the performances like? I bet it was amazing, wasn't it? Dying to hear ...

Rachel

[TheTramp]

Yup. I was there.

Unfortunately, Dan and Andrea had to pull out at the last moment.

The standard was pretty hot though. Simon & Taina narrowly beating Nicky & Robert into 2nd place.

It was a good night :D

Steve

[Divissima]

I had forgotten that Simon and Taina were competing...

I was so stiff and sore from Nicki and Robert's workshop on Saturday and tango lesson on Sunday afternoon (which managed to fatigue all the muscles not complaining after Saturday) that I couldn't face the drive... Kicking myself now (adding to overall soreness) :sick:

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Divissima
I had forgotten that Simon and Taina were competing...

I was so stiff and sore from Nicki and Robert's workshop on Saturday and tango lesson on Sunday afternoon (which managed to fatigue all the muscles not complaining after Saturday) that I couldn't face the drive... Kicking myself now (adding to overall soreness) :sick: Good workshop, was it? We'd wanted to go but, unfortunately, couldn't make it. I hope we have a chance to meet you and Toby again, though, before too long!

Thanks for the info on Jive Maters, Steve - I bet it was really something to watch. I won't miss the next one, if I can help it.
Rachel

[jiveclone]

I thought that the standard was higher in Heat 1 than in Heat 2, in my opinion the top two couples in Heat 1 danced better than all of the couples in Heat 2.

However the scores for the top two couples in Heat 2 were higher than those for Heat 1.

Does anyone else have an opinion on the relative standards in Heat 1 and Heat 2?

Could only having three couples in Heat 2 have affected the scoring?

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by jiveclone
I thought that the standard was higher in Heat 1 than in Heat 2, in my opinion the top two couples in Heat 1 danced better than all of the couples in Heat 2.:sorry :sorry :sorry :sorry

Thank you.

Steve (and Debster)

[TheTramp]

Have to say that I don't really think that the scoring between the two heats actually matters.

It could have been a completely different set of 'judges' (since it's the audience). It could have been that people were feeling generally happier because the weather was better. Or because it was a long weekend. Or maybe as you say, just having 4 couples.

All that matters is the scoring on the day..... and then in the final! :D

Steve

[cerocmetro]

The Jive Maters
Round Three
This months competitors are:

Rena Swanepoel & Mark Skipper
Rena is probably the best known Lindy Dancer in the UK today. Three times UK aerials champion, twice UK Lindy Champion and finalist in the World championships in 2001, her pedigree is without equal. Mark Skipper is a veteran of the UK dance scene and is one of the top dancers on the London Lindy circuit. This new partnership will be very interesting indeed!

Amir Giles & Taz Beckett
Amir Giles was the Australasian Ceroc Champion in 2001. Currently he is studying ballet as well as being part of the team at Hipsters. Taz is one of the true secrets of the dance world, elegant, stylish and able to do every dance style imaginable. If Amir is the strawberry then Taz is definitely the cream.

Simon White & Zara Rohentulla
Simon White is the founder of Jivebug in Fleet and is the brains behind the MJC dance weekend which brings together the many dance teachers and performers in the UK every June. He has a completely original style which mixes Jive with Lindy, Westcoast Swing & Boogie Woogie and his aerials are awesome. Zara, despite only just turning 19, seems to have been around for years and is a regular performer on the competition circuit, having just been a finalist in the Open section of the recent Ceroc championships. This is a new partnership and we wait with anticipation for their performance.

Ben Borrego & Holly Shannon
Coming from the Brighton area Ben & Holly have now been dancing together for a year and it certainly shows after their recent performance in the final of the Ceroc Open Division. Their new and original style blends Jive with Hip Hop & street jazz and it can only be a matter of time before they start to fill their trophy cabinets with some of the top titles in the UK. Will the Masters be the first of them.

The finals of the Jive Masters will be held on Saturday 20th September at one of the biggest dance halls in London, The Walthamstow Assembly Hall, adjacent to the Town Hall. This is the same venue as was used for the "Masked Ball of the East", which this year was the biggest freestyle event ever held in Ceroc

Tickets will be available from next week.
www.cerocmetro.com

[Divissima]

Ceroc Metro wrote:The Jive Maters I'm sorry - it's a truly 'ooh matron' moment.

On a more grown up note, the line up sounds fantastic - all amazing dancers. Can't wait to see them dancing!:wink:

[Simon]

Taz Beckett. One of the best female dancers in the country.

She could dance with anyone and my money would be on her. :wink:

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Simon
Taz Beckett. One of the best female dancers in the country.

She could dance with anyone and my money would be on her. :wink: My God, you are right there - that girl is just amazing!! She and Amir looked great together at the JiveMasters last night. (They came second to Ben and Hollie, for those interested.)

I'm still buzzing from the evening, actually - it was fantastic, and every one of the participants was incredible. It was sooo difficult to judge one couple over another, as they were all brilliant in their individual styles. (I'm running out of superlatives here ...) I think Amir's style overall is my favourite ... but Rena was as fantastically entertaining as you'd expect her to be!! Roll on next month ...

Rachel

[SallyB]

Hi Rachel,
I agree, last night was one of the closest so far and I am glad I am not judging.

If anyone would like to guarantee tickets for the final on the 20th September, they can purchased over the phone or you can emal for an application form.

Tel: 07768 005858, or email ceroc@hotmail.com

Tickets are limited to 1,000. This sounds like a lot but 175 have already been sold.

I have to talk to Franck when he gets back from his hols, but I would like to hold one round/heat in Scotland, especially after the warm welcome we had when we were there recently.

There are a few couples we would like to have in this amazing competition from up your way, and this would be a good way to encourage them to enter.

Again the finals are in NE London on Saturday 20th September. 8pm-1am. There will be at least three hours of Freestyle unlike most competitions.

The best dancers from all over are entering and it promoses to be one of the best dance events/competitions/freestyles ever.

Tickets £15.

For those of you travelling from afar, we have a dance the night before, and will have workshops over the weekend. No details of workshops yet but they will be reduced cost to anyone attending the event.

We are hoping to have some of the competitors teachng at the workshops.

Does it get any better, probably not!!

Adam

[Rachel]

Originally posted by SallyB
You confused me for a moment posting under the name of SallyB - is that just a nickname?


I have to talk to Franck when he gets back from his hols, but I would like to hold one round/heat in Scotland, especially after the warm welcome we had when we were there recently.

There are a few couples we would like to have in this amazing competition from up your way, and this would be a good way to encourage them to enter.

That sounds like a really good idea.


Again the finals are in NE London on Saturday 20th September. 8pm-1am.
We'll definitely be there!
Rachel

[Graham W]

...well done to Holly & Ben!!

I said a quick hello to her at Blackpool & understand she hasnt been dancing long - it shows what can be achieved!!

G

Hope they arent as good if they come to Bristol thu.. wicked :-)

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Graham W
...well done to Holly & Ben!!

I said a quick hello to her at Blackpool & understand she hasnt been dancing long - it shows what can be achieved!!

G

Hope they arent as good if they come to Bristol thu.. wicked :-)

Yes, congratulations to Ben & Holly!
Hey Graham - you're the Graham I met at MJC, aren't you? We danced together in the modern jive room, and did Amir's latin jive workshop. I'm the short, dark one - if that helps at all. (Hmmm, wonder how many short dark-haired girls were at MJC???). I did enjoy our dances, hope we get some more sometime.
Rachel

[Graham W]

..yes I was at MJC - sat nite was quite busy!!

but I do remember & u are a v nice dancer..

G

[Gordon J Pownall]

The next round of the JIVE MASTERS takes place on 27 July 2003.

For those of you coming, there is a shortish diversion due to roadworks so follow the signs or contact us for directions. (Details on the website).

The venue is the David Lloyd Centre, Buckhurst Hill on the Chigwell border.

Dancing starts with a beginners class at 7.15pm and intermediate at 8.15pm.

The audience are the judges and you need to register by 8.00pm for the competition.

See www.cerocmetro.com for details of whose competing this month.

[cerocmetro]

The competitors this Sunday
for more details. www.cerocmetro.com

Alan Pratt & Sarah Bryan

Alan Pratt is regarded as one of the top dancers in the UK (you only have to look on the Scottish Ceroc forum to see how highly rated he is by his peers). Sarah is the queen of Beach Boogie having organised the 'Big Night' for the past 3 years. Together they are twice National Blues Champions and if the music suits them in the heats ….. watch out its going to be HOT!


Marc Forster and Laili Brooks

Four years after discovering modern jive, Marc is delighted to be a part of the Jive Masters. At present he teaches Ceroc in Milton Keynes and dances frequently at many London venues. Hailing from Bristol, Laili has rapidly become the demonstrator of choice having recently partnered Steve Lampert at Stompin in Brighton and Roger Chin at Camber Sands. Recognised for her energetic style and quick thinking on the dance floor, she is one of the most natural freestylers on the circuit right now.


David Franklin & Bryony Dean

Bryony & David are rushing back from their honeymoon especially to take part in this months heat. They are the current UK aerials champions and were one of the highlights of this years Blackpool Championships with a brilliant and innovative showcase performance. Lets see how they fare at this years Masters.


Simon Rich & Christine Chen

Simon & Christine made their competition debut at this years Ceroc Championships and scared the other competitors to death with their mix of new moves and flamboyant style. Based in Guildford they have been honing their skills for the last few years and we are really lucky that they have agreed to take part in this years Masters competition.

[Rachel]

Hi Adam/Ceroc Metro, I've been meaning to ask - how will the final of the Jive Masters work in September? I mean, do the audience get to vote for the winners then as well, or will there be a panel of judges? I love the idea of the audience/regular dancers voting - can't think why a competition like that hasn't been done before (or has it??) - but I wasn't sure if this would still be the case in the final.
Rachel

[cerocmetro]

Hi Rachel

Wasn't that a great night last night. Record numbers for us on a sunday, 237. Sorry we did not get a dance, I was a bit frantic running around etc etc.

Thought Mark and Laili did really well and deserved to get through to the finals in september.

In the finals, the audience will still be the judges all the way through. There will be no "expert" judges. This was the whole point of the competition. The true favourite of the masses.

I do not think that this format has ever been done before, either where the best dancers compete against each other, and the audience have total control over the results.

I am sure though that we will not be the last, but was nice being the first.

Adam

[Rachel]

Originally posted by cerocmetro
In the finals, the audience will still be the judges all the way through. There will be no "expert" judges. This was the whole point of the competition. The true favourite of the masses.

I do not think that this format has ever been done before, either where the best dancers compete against each other, and the audience have total control over the results. Excellent - I like this format (at least we can't complain at the results, then!) - and pleased to hear the final will be the same.

Yes, I was so proud of Marc and Lailli - with so little chance to practise together, I think they looked great (ok, I know I'm biased!!!). But Simon and Christine were amazing - well deserved their win. That guy is the most inventive, wacky, flamboyant, fun dancer I've ever seen and Christine was incredible to keep pace with him so stylishly.

Also, though, I think David and Bryony deserve congratulations for those brilliant airsteps. They keep trying to tell us they can't freestyle, but they definitely proved otherwise. And King of the Blues - great to watch Alan and Sarah at close quarters. I've never really seen them dance before, and it was stunning to watch.

What I really like about it, is being able to get a really good view of all the competitors (unlike at the Championships) and seeing them dance one couple at a time. That way, you don't miss anything. Must be pretty nerve-racking, though!
Rachel

[Chicklet]

Too busy / lazy to trawl thru' but did I read that this fantastic sounding event was coming north of the border some time soon????:D Any update?

[cerocmetro]

Rachel I agree, I also though Alan and Sarah were fabulous. They were unlucky to pull such a fast track for the second part, especially considering that their main strength is Blues, but their interpretation and skill in halving the beats and still making the moves make sense with the music was superb.

It was a shame that Alan had damaged his wrist which probably caused the couple of slips that I am sure went against them in the judging.

As I have said before the standard in this competition is second to none. Most dancers pay money to see anyone one of these competitors perform. To see four of them in one night and for no extra charge has got to be good news.

Yes the audience are right in with the action, not 30 feet away or more hidden behind a pillar. It also has a very personal feel to it. This is possibly also becasue all the competitors are known.

Are you bringing a coach load to the finals with you?

Adam

[cerocmetro]

Originally posted by Chicklet
Too busy / lazy to trawl thru' but did I read that this fantastic sounding event was coming north of the border some time soon????:D Any update?

You need to speak to Franck.

:wink:

[Rachel]

Originally posted by cerocmetro
Are you bringing a coach load to the finals with you?

Adam Oh yes!!! Can't wait ...

[Sheepman]

This was my first time at the Jive Masters, so I didn't know what to expect. My first impression was the venue, a small(ish) studio, I'd expected something much larger and grander for such an event. But it is true that it puts the audience right there with the dancers, perfectly placed to admire their skills, and spot any fumbles.

Although I know all the contestants, I came along hoping a particular couple would win, or at least go through to the finals, but still trying to be objective about my judging, so was I biased? Maybe you can spot the couple I favoured:-

The couple drawn to go first were David and Bryony, is first spot the most difficult one? I've seen them perform a few times before, but this doesn't make their aerials any less stunning, I start by thinking "I could do that, with about 6 months practice and training", then Bryony is dropped head first to within an inch of the floor (still smiling), and I think, "no maybe more than 6 months, maybe 6 years". I love dancing with Bryony, though rarely get the opportunity, she has loads of style and obviously enjoys dancing so much. I marked them highly for their presentation, with all their unique airsteps, but these interfered with the musical interpretation, particularly for the fast track.

Next up were Marc and Laili, I think they had all of about 2 weeks notice to try and get some practice in for this. I've seen Marc often enough to know that there would be something funky in there. I was amazed at how good they were. They both move so well, and any obvious moments of confusion due to limited practice were very rare, very different from David and Bryony, but also highly entertaining. I scored them well all round, except for a lesser mark regarding difficulty of moves. With more time together, this couple may be serious contenders.

Third up were Allan and Sarah, the blues maestros. They were so unlucky to draw "I'm So Excited" as their "slow" piece of music. IMHO this is an absolutely dire piece of music to dance to, I don't think I've ever heard it played at a venue, and rightfully so. I spotted Christine laughing her head off, relieved that she wouldn't be getting this piece of music! At least there would be only 2 minutes of this torture played. I was mightily impressed with the subtle interpretations that Allan and Sarah came up with. Even with their frantic fast track, their musicality was amongst the best. The very fast track they got did see them struggling for a smile once the energy was draining, and a couple of minor slips during drops (the floor is very fast here) inevitably counted against them. Only later did we learn that Allan had a hand strapped up due to a recent injury.

Finally to Christine and Simon, I've seen both of them dancing many times, but never really together. It has been said to me that their styles are too different to work together, Simon with his funky street style, full of energy, and an annoyingly rubber body, and Christine with a more subtle, sensual style. I've been waiting to view the evidence before passing judgement. I was also concerned about Christine's fitness level after a recent convalescence. Their dancing was a revelation, wonderful presentation (e.g. I think every single drop was face on to the main crowd). Innovation, energy, and power. They have been working together for about 5 months, and the work they've put in really showed. Where the difference in styles is apparent, it is to compliment one another rather than detract from each other. They were the choice of the crowd, it was immediately obvious in the cheers and applause afterwards.

One thing I would have liked, is a short gap (ie less than a minute) between the contestants in order to consider my scores and note them down, especially after the last couple, I felt I needed a bit more time in order to be objective. I suppose second time around I would be more prepared for this. This is certainly a good way of competition judges earning respect, 'cos it is not an easy task. In the end, I had 4 points covering all the contestants.

And a question for CerocMetro. I presume that the scoring is based on the position that each judge places the couples, rather than the actual scores, as the latter would lead to judges who score highly having more impact on the result than others. Can you confirm this?

So that was the short version, but I could go on and on . . .
Greg

[Franck]

Originally posted by Chicklet
Too busy / lazy to trawl thru' but did I read that this fantastic sounding event was coming north of the border some time soon????:D Any update? Hiya Chicklet... Good news for you indeed then, the next heat of the Jivemasters will be in Scotland, at the Big Perth Party on Saturday 16th August. Featuring the cream of the crop of dancers from north of the border, and hosted by Adam himself, this should be a great precursor to the Scottish Championships... :waycool:
All you have to do to be a judge, is be at the party :D

Franck.

[Rachel]

Greg - great comments about Sunday's heat - really interesting reading, and I think I agree with just about everything you said about the dancers. (Oh, and I got my first ever dance with Alan (Allan?) Pratt last night - wow - talk about oozing sensuality!!)

I hadn't really thought about this before, but I totally endorse what you said about having a minute spare between competitors to mark down the scores. I found myself torn between wanting to note my results for the last couple and clap for the next couple coming on.

But not sure I agree about the venue - I think it felt smaller last Sunday because there was a huge number of people there, but I never felt too squashed dancing. It must be hard, for a non-ticket event, to be able to anticipate the number of people who will attend. It's also pretty lavish, lovely floor, changing rooms, etc - and the best toilets I've ever come across at a venue! Given that there are 6 heats, I think that, pratically, it would have been very difficult to find anywhere better in London.

Anyway, lovely to see you last night. Next time, I'll stalk you in order to get my dance!!

Oh, I'm being extremely lazy by adding onto this thread, but I should cut down on forum activity today to get some work done - Pammy, it was fantastic to finally meet you. We've probably been going to the same venues for so long ...! Anyway, keep up with the brilliantly entertaining posts, and look forward to seeing you again.
Rachel

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Rachel
Pammy, it was fantastic to finally meet you. We've probably been going to the same venues for so long ...! Anyway, keep up with the brilliantly entertaining posts, and look forward to seeing you again.[/B]

Ah Rachel, he he, nice to see you too. I said so this morning on the London site, but don't know if you saw the post.

I agree about Alan Pratt b.t.w.

Px

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Pammy
Ah Rachel, he he, nice to see you too. I said so this morning on the London site, but don't know if you saw the post.


I'm pretty sure Ive danced with you already Pammy. Ive danced with lots of people in London who'll never remember me :).

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Pammy
Ah Rachel, he he, nice to see you too. I said so this morning on the London site, but don't know if you saw the post.

I agree about Alan Pratt b.t.w.

Px Oh, I didn't see it, actually - I've had a moral objection to that site since they classed Hipsters as a dirty word.

Also, I figure one forum addiction is enough. How do you manage it? I'm full of awe of you!

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Rachel
Hipsters as a dirty word.

All I can say is "there's no accounting for taste!!!"



Also, I figure one forum addiction is enough. How do you manage it? I'm full of awe of you!

I've had to take a second job in the evenings just help pay for it :wink: Needs must and all that!!!

Pxx

[cerocmetro]

Originally posted by Sheepman

Third up were Allan and Sarah, the blues maestros. They were so unlucky to draw "I'm So Excited" as their "slow" piece of music.
Greg
Hi Greg
that was the short version??:what:

Firstly small point really, Alan and Sarah's slow piece was Swing Lover, which suited their style really well. I'm so excited was the second fast track. I too thought they were brilliant the way they handled it.


Originally posted by Sheepman

And a question for CerocMetro. I presume that the scoring is based on the position that each judge places the couples, rather than the actual scores, as the latter would lead to judges who score highly having more impact on the result than others. Can you confirm this?
Greg
The scoring is based on actual scores. There have been about the same number of judges at every heat. approx 120. the average of the scores are taken which has actually been incredibly similar between rounds. As a guide the highest return for a winner was 17.9, the lowest winners 17.4, highest second place 17.4, lowest second 15.8, third place highest 15.2, lowest 13 and fourth place highest 13.9, lowest 12.9

The figures I think speak for themselves, the number of judges balance out any outrageous marking. The honesty in the judging has been excellent. I have heard on quite a few occasions "I came with*** to suppotrt them but felt that **** were better".

There have been three judges score cards out of 600 returned with one 20 and three zeros. We have not entered these as we felt they were not fair. I know I might get some flack back for this but we try to make this as fair as possible.

Also if we took the position as opposed to score, we would not be able to have highest third placed for the final.



Originally posted by Sheepman
One thing I would have liked, is a short gap (ie less than a minute) between the contestants in order to consider my scores and note them down, especially after the last couple, I felt I needed a bit more time in order to be objective.
Greg

Nice idea but not practical. It takes up too much time and also you might be able to compare one with the next, but not the first and the last. It would be no different to the situation now. Ultimately we are breeding a set of judges who might be a bit more lenient on the other competition judges in future. I judged the Ceroc open this year. We had to judge four couples at a time (might have been more), using the same score sheet as we use in the Jive Masters, (we used it first). We only had one track to decide. It was impossible. I do not believe we were able to judge properly especially the less experienced judges.



Originally posted by Sheepman
It's also pretty lavish, lovely floor, changing rooms, etc - and the best toilets I've ever come across at a venue! Given that there are 6 heats, I think that, pratically, it would have been very difficult to find anywhere better in London.
Rachel

Not many people realise what a great venue they have just on the edge of London. Apart from the great toilet facilities, there are also showers and steam rooms and saunas.

There is a restaurant, bar and doors from the hall to the outside where you can walk. It is also a no smoking venue which is a pleasure for many. The floor is superb. It is not a night club, it is a great venue especially for Sunday nights.

Adam

[Sheepman]

Originally posted by Rachel
But not sure I agree about the venue - I think it felt smaller last Sunday because there was a huge number of people there, but I never felt too squashed dancing.
I wasn't intending to complain about the venue, it certainly is a nice place, (though we did have a niggle about having to queue up for 5 minutes at the main reception just to get in to the building.) It was just that it was so crowded, I gather that they went nearly 20% over capacity that night, I would have been so frustrated if I hadn't found that corner where we strutted our stuff!
Greg

[Sheepman]

Originally posted by cerocmetro
Firstly small point really, Alan and Sarah's slow piece was Swing Lover, which suited their style really well. I'm so excited was the second fast track. I too thought they were brilliant the way they handled it.
Oops, of course, I had a feeling I'd got something wrong about that, (as well as my spelling of Alan's name - sorry) my main memory of that piece of music being drawn was that Christine and Simon looked so relieved not to get it!



Originally posted by cerocmetro
The scoring is based on actual scores. . . .As a guide the highest return for a winner was 17.9, the lowest winners 17.4, highest second place 17.4, lowest second 15.8, third place highest 15.2, lowest 13 and fourth place highest 13.9, lowest 12.9 Well it sounds like this system is working fairly, but your example does also illustrate my point, as it seems I was a "conservative" scorer, my score for first place was 16 (I'm sure it would have been higher if I'd had a bit longer to think about it) this is lower than your lowest average. My score for 4th place was 13.

Now take an extreme example, (but hopefully a simple one) where there are 16 judges, 10 are low scoring and conservative (or maybe it is just a very close heat), their first place is given to couple A, and they all score them with 11 points, ie total 110 points, their last place is given to couple C, all scoring them with 7 points, ie total 70 points.
The other 6 judges are rather different in their taste and judgement, they score couple C with 19 points (total 114) and couple A with 11 points (total 66 points).
So the totals for all the judges are:-
Couple A - 176 points
Couple C - 184 points
So couple C win, even though the majority of judges had them in last place.
And I'm not talking about dishonest or biased judges here, just people with different tastes.
Now however unlikely this situation is, surely the mere fact that it is a possibility devalues the scoring system. (And I must point out that I have no complaint about Sunday's result, which I felt was absolutely correct).

OK you have tried normalizing the votes by removing some with scores of 20 and 0, but this would not affect the example above, a more statistically correct method may be to remove 10% of the votes with the highest variance, not a method you would be able to employ on the night.

This topic has been argued long and hard before, and I think an admirable approach has been devised for the Britroc competition, maybe Andy McGregor will oblige by supplying the link to the rules again?


Originally posted by cerocmetro
Also if we took the position as opposed to score, we would not be able to have highest third placed for the final.
I agree that using placings rather than scores would complicate the issue of highest runners up, (this is also dealt with in Andy's discussion). Of course this argument won't apply for the finals itself.
Am I right in thinking that there are 6 best runners up places in the finals? After 6 heats, it will be interesting to see if any of the 4th placed couples make it to the final.

Re. time to consider your marks, I'm not talking about loads of time to do this, maybe 30 seconds (or even 20) after a couple have finished, where the DJ could announce something like "please make sure you have entered your marks", before introducing the next performers. I realise that we do have the ultimate judging luxury of being able to sit and watch just a single couple perform, but I think you will find in the closest case to this - the Showcase performances - the professional judges have sufficient time to do their marking.
The other extreme I've heard of, is a competition where the judges had, on average, 4 seconds to assess each couple!


Originally posted by cerocmetro
Not many people realise what a great venue they have just on the edge of London. Apart from the great toilet facilities, there are also showers and steam rooms and saunas.
Are all these available to Cerocers without extra charge?

So I now have my tickets for the final, and I'm looking forward to it. What is the position regarding the music for this, presumably it can't be from the existing list, as this wouldn't be long enough? Do the couples get the floor to themselves again?
And will the video be available to the punters?

Phew - that was the short version again!
Greg

[cerocmetro]

Originally posted by Sheepman
Now take an extreme example...(And I must point out that I have no complaint about Sunday's result, which I felt was absolutely correct).
I have gone through your scenarios at length. I have come up with arguements for and against until my head has split. I have struggled to decide what is fair and what is not. I have come up with this. It works and the majority, in fact everybody I have spoken to on everyone of the heats has agreed with the results.


Originally posted by Sheepman
Am I right in thinking that there are 6 best runners up places in the finals? After 6 heats, it will be interesting to see if any of the 4th placed couples make it to the final.
Again the scores have been uncannily similar heat to heat. But lets see.


Originally posted by Sheepman
Re. time to consider your marks....DJ could announce something like "please make sure you have entered your marks", before introducing the next performers

DJ thing a good idea. I do provide a break, I congratulate he couple who have just finished and introduce the next couple. To have a break to write down marks actually does not work. People need to get used to looking, making a decision and writing it down. After the event, even a short break it is very hard to remember what was actually going on. I agree when we had four seconds per couple it was a nightmare. But here you have 4 minutes to decide and a good minute to write down afterwards.



Originally posted by Sheepman
Are all these available to Cerocers without extra charge?
The changing rooms have saunas in, showers and lockers. There is no charge for this. It is a fine line. It is a private members club but once you are in you are in. As long as we do not abuse the facilities eg wave Ceroc banners around in the swimming pool, I do not see a problem. A shower and coffee after a dance has got to be good.



Originally posted by Sheepman
So I now have my tickets for the final, and I'm looking forward to it. What is the position regarding the music for this, presumably it can't be from the existing list, as this wouldn't be long enough? Do the couples get the floor to themselves again?
And will the video be available to the punters?
Greg

New music, details to be posted soon. Five rounds three couples in each and then one at a time in the final.

The video will be available to punters. Details later.

Adam

[Debster]

FYI for anyone who hasn't noticed, we have started discussing the format of the final of the comp under the 'Jive Masters Final' thread under Social Events...

I'd appreciate your opinions...:waycool:

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by cerocmetro
Hi Greg
that was the short version??:what:

The scoring is based on actual scores. There have been about the same number of judges at every heat. approx 120. the average of the scores are taken which has actually been incredibly similar between rounds. As a guide the highest return for a winner was 17.9, the lowest winners 17.4, highest second place 17.4, lowest second 15.8, third place highest 15.2, lowest 13 and fourth place highest 13.9, lowest 12.9

The figures I think speak for themselves, the number of judges balance out any outrageous marking. The honesty in the judging has been excellent. I have heard on quite a few occasions "I came with*** to suppotrt them but felt that **** were better".

There have been three judges score cards out of 600 returned with one 20 and three zeros. We have not entered these as we felt they were not fair. I know I might get some flack back for this but we try to make this as fair as possible.

Also if we took the position as opposed to score, we would not be able to have highest third placed for the final.

Adam

As I've spent many, many hours thinking and writing about Modern Jive Competition judging methods I though I'd add my comments (and Mr Sheepman asked me to stick my nose in). Firstly, these are heats. We don't really need to know how people did in each judging factor, we need to know who should be promoted to the next round - which I gather is the final. A simpler method would be the 'Call Back' method where you ask each one of the 120 judges to pick 2 people to promote - the winner would be the one with the most votes, second would be the next highest, etc. So long as each weeks judging panel had the same number of people in it there would be no difficulty using scores to find the highest scoring 3rd placed couple. And as an extra safeguard against a tie you could even ask judges to select one 'Possibly Promoted' to act as a tie breaker.

The advantage of this method is that each judge can only have the same influence over the outcome. With the current method it is easy to detect the blatant attempts to skew the result by massive differences in scores, but where do you draw the line in terms of difference in scores before you don't count them in the result? Some people trying to undemocratically skew the result might be more subtle that the person giving one 20 and three noughts. It would be much simpler and more democratic if the scoring method were designed so each judge the same influence.

In the final we need to know the position for each competitor. Again a raw score will allow judges to have a greater or lesser influence over the outcome depending on the difference the place between their scores. To put it simply, someone who marks all his/her scores between 10 and 15 will have half as much influence as someone who marks between 5 and 15. To be fair and democratic each judge must have the same influence over the outcome. The fair way to do this is using 'Relative Placement', that means each judge places each competitor in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. The couple with the most judges placing them first is the winner - simple (there is a simple method for finding the other places which I've illustrated in the attached document). This placement can be arrived at using raw scores or it can be arrived at by the judge simply picking the position for each competitor. The Relative Placement method is the most common method used in all Ice Dance, Ballroom, Latin, etc competitions the world over. People have tried other methods and always returned to relative placement as the most fair and democratic.

I've attached the zip of the 3rd draft (4th Draft in Progress as a result of feedback from Forum members - thanks guys :waycool: )of the 'McGregor Judging Method' (named after mine and Nina's Granny McGregors) it illustrates how both the 'Call Back' and 'Relative Placement' method work. And if Adam is interested, I've had a computer programme written in Excel which can do the sums.

Having said all of the above, it's Adam's competition and he can have it judged any way he likes - and he seems very robust in his defence of his method so I guess he's happy with it :grin:

[Sheepman]

Thanks Andy, as expected, you've put it much more lucidly than me.
I think Adam's argument against what you've outlined would be that the number of judges is not known at each heat, as it depends who turns up and who registers, but I say it wouldn't be difficult to include an averaging method to this. With Adam's method, it is also possible that a 4th placed competitor can make it through to the final, as their average score is higher than other 3rd placed competitors. In a way, he needs this to happen, in order to justify the scoring method!

But there I go anticipating what other's are going to do again!
Greg

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Sheepman
Thanks Andy, as expected, you've put it much more lucidly than me.
I think Adam's argument against what you've outlined would be that the number of judges is not known at each heat, as it depends who turns up and who registers, but I say it wouldn't be difficult to include an averaging method to this. With Adam's method, it is also possible that a 4th placed competitor can make it through to the final, as their average score is higher than other 3rd placed competitors. In a way, he needs this to happen, in order to justify the scoring method!

As an alternative to an averaging or factoring method to take into account a variable like the number of judges you could just have a maximum number of judges and stop taking applications when that number is reached.

And I've just had a thought. There doesn't really need to be a factor like 'Audience Appleal' or showmanship as it's the audience voting.

Personally, I think the audience voting will select one type of winner and a panel of expert dancers will select another type of winner. For example, when I first started dancing I was impressed by big moves, loads of different moves and black & white shoes! After 6 years of Modern Jive I'm much more impressed by how the dancers fit the moves to the music. So if I'd been a judge in 1998 I would have scored very differently from how I would score today.

I wrote the Judging Method to try to standardise judging and eliminate this variation. And to inform competitors about what the judges are looking for. When the audience are the judges the competitors need to guess what is going to appeal to the judges. The competitors could be brilliant dancers - but lose because they're bad guessers :confused:

[Gadget]

I've just posted in the other thread, but...

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
As an alternative to an averaging or factoring method to take into account a variable like the number of judges you could just have a maximum number of judges and stop taking applications when that number is reached.
Just as you can give a relative score for people who have different maximum and minimums, you should be able to compensate for the number of voters and give a relative score that means the same thing across any number of competitions with any number of judges. The only "down" side to this method is that it kind of 'flattens' all the numbers, giving less of a diferential between competitors.


When the audience are the judges the competitors need to guess what is going to appeal to the judges. The competitors could be brilliant dancers - but lose because they're bad guessers :confused:
I think that you are targeting people that are 'win-win-win' orientated; most good dancers I have met or danced with are 'win-fun-fun' orientated {...actually all good dancers...}
I think that the routines will be based on what the competitors enjoy doing and what they have had 'wow' comments on. {but since I am a world away from competing at that level, I could be completley wrong!}