WCS Esher

[Paul F]

I have just noticed, on the Ceroc surrey website www.ceroc.org.uk, that WCS in Esher is closing for the summer.
I have also heard from a couple of people that it is not doing very well. Even last Friday, when I was home, I went to Hipsters and noticed quite a few other 'westies' there.

So I was wondering, of all those that dont go to Esher each week - Why not?

I have posted my thoughts before and I wont repeat them in this first post but I wondered why others dont go.


There is no sinister reason for my question. I am genuinely worried about WCS due to the apparent lack of new people. I could be wrong as I have not been around but it appears it is all the same people at the different venues. That worries me.
I fear that Esher may not re-open. I just wondered why.

:confused:

[Geordieed]

Paul,

Esher was actually shut last week. Paul, Cat and Lee were all in Paris on a dance weekend. Ronnie and Brandi and Kyle and Sarah were over from the States.


By the way congratulations to Cat and Lee who won all of the categories that they entered. There are alot of people that I see at MJ events that I go to as well. WCS does have a small community in London although we are getting new people all the time. The monthly workshops do attract new people and retain some of that new crowd. We are like any other dance form for the ratio of customers that come through the door. The numbers will look low compared to something like Ceroc who can be seen as a successful business at this point in time. Go to Jango or London T-Dances and you will get the same picture. Whether you could claim they are on the decline in the same way because of attendance is not a comparison I think people make. We just get on and dance with the passion for the dance. Anyone who is learning or has tried to learn WCS will appreciate it takes time to learn and become comfortable with.

It does help to be fortunate enough to have incredible teachers both North and South of the border and that helps to give us an edge. Their dedication to the dance is an example to the pupils they teach.

I was watching a documentary this week on Frankie Manning who is a living legend and represents a part of the birthplace of Lindy. If you see the ups and downs that have been experienced in that dance form you will know how difficult it can be. For quite a while Lindy was a forgotten dance but has lasted the test of time because of the passion people have had for it.

Like most things, worthwhile causes often take a long term commitment.

[Paul F]

Like most things, worthwhile causes often take a long term commitment.

I hope your right :cheers:

I still get the feeling that Esher wasnt doing particularly well. Im basing that just on a couple of comments from people who said there was no atmosphere at all i.e. uninspiring room with sterile lighting etc.
Its all about the dance rather than the setting but I cant help but think that it was suffering.

As for new people coming into WC, I hope the introduction of new people can sustain the classes.

[Geordieed]

You sound a bit down mate. All is not doom and gloom in WCS although the rumour mongeurs will always find a grey cloud. Don't listen to them. Let's knock 'em into touch with some positivety.

You dancing this weekend. It is a shame you're not dancing as much WCS as before. It was great to see you at the venues and hopefully we'll see you more in the future. It looks like we're going to get a crackin' bit of sun this weekend.

I am going to Esher tonight and really looking forward to it. I am thinking about the rest of the year and realised that we wouldn't be getting some of the greats over from America if there wasn't the interest or client base over here to receive them. Next year looks like it will be built on this year and last so there's lots to look forward to.

[Paul F]

You dancing this weekend.

I am but not in the UK. Im back in icky Mumbai at the moment. Only back in the UK on the 28th.
Will definately be getting back into the West Coast when Im back. That is, if my ballroom partner will let me :blush:

[Geordieed]

Damn. I am hoping to bring Lisa that you met at Jango along for the freestyle on Saturday especially.

[Msfab]

Damn. I am hoping to bring Lisa that you met at Jango along for the freestyle on Saturday especially.

Shes coming for me instead!:clap:

[Geordieed]

That sounds like the birthday girl...:clap: :cheers: :clap:

[Sheepman]

Shes coming for me instead!:clap: Am I allowed to have a dance with both of you?

:flower: Pretty please. :flower:

I haven't yet made it to Esher, even though I have stayed in on a few Friday's since the move from Surbiton. I did feel that wasn't the best of venues, with the floor often sticky, (not surprising as it is used as a canteen,) plus I prefer a wider mix of music styles than I found there, but I love Paul's teaching.

The only thing I've heard about Esher is that "it's a bit quiet", maybe we need to use the grapevine to make sure all the regulars turn up on a certain date when it restarts, at least we can then say we've tried it.

Greg

[Msfab]

Am I allowed to have a dance with both of you?

:flower: Pretty please. :flower:


What at the same time?:rofl: No seriously Id love more than one with you!:clap:

[Msfab]

I've been to Esher a few times now – and I did enjoy myself and learnt lots. On the occasions I have been theres not been more that 20 people:sad: (Evenish numbers which is a plus). The venue would be great for a larger number of people – nice big and airy but with the number that were there it can seem a little too big and impersonal.

I should probably go more often – but id really like to keep up my Arg Tango (which clashes + at the moment im only managing once a month if that!). I suppose if there was more of a buzz about it id probably ditch the Tango more often than I ditch the WCS.


Is Friday a funny night for 2 classes and only 50-60 min freestyle? Prehaps if there was more dance and less class – people might be more inclined to come and make an evening of it.:sick:

[Msfab]

The only thing I've heard about Esher is that "it's a bit quiet", maybe we need to use the grapevine to make sure all the regulars turn up on a certain date when it restarts, at least we can then say we've tried it.

Crafty you added this after my first reply!:rolleyes:

But you'd need the regulars to become regulars! its not much use if they only turn up when others are around is it? You'll then have weeks of good and bad.

What about this question of getting new people started?
Ceroc and others have newbies turning up regularly - where do we get newbie Westies?:confused:
One other thing - should we not try getting hold of people from other dance styles as well as the none dancers and MJers?

[Sheepman]

But you'd need the regulars to become regulars! its not much use if they only turn up when others are around is it? You'll then have weeks of good and bad. I meant the regular Westies, rather than regular Esherites.

And yes, you could risk having good and bad nights, don't most dance venues? But maybe those who've never been need extra impetus to try it, and if they're coming long distances to do the Wednesday classes, they're not likely to regularly do that twice a week.

Greg

[Msfab]

I meant the regular Westies, rather than regular Esherites.
Sorry thats what I meaning (Check wording Msfab!)



And yes, you could risk having good and bad nights, don't most dance venues? But maybe those who've never been need extra impetus to try it, and if they're coming long distances to do the Wednesday classes, they're not likely to regularly do that twice a week.
:yeah: So we need new blood (not literally) taking up the beautiful dance.
Where do we get them from?

[Yliander]

if my ballroom partner will let me :blush:Glad to hear that one of those ballroom try outs worked out :clap:

[Paul F]

Glad to hear that one of those ballroom try outs worked out :clap:

Yeah, this one went well. Need to find myself a latin partner now.
It could have possibly been easier to find someone who wants to do 10-dance but so far no luck.
1 success out of 10 try-outs. Thats an exhausting ratio. We both know what each other wants to do but we havnt actually sat down and discussed it yet. That could be trouble :)

Its only early days though and we havnt had chance to get many hours under our belts with me flying back to India and all. (yet another reason for me to hate this project)
We have some lessons scheduled for when I get back on the 28th. That will give us more of an idea of compatability although Benoir (her coach) seemed hopeful.
Hopefully I will be able to escape for the WCS though but Shhhhh! dont tell her :rofl:


...if she asks Im "washing my hair" :rofl:

[TheTramp]

...if she asks Im "washing my hair" :rofl:
Yeah. I use that excuse too! :D

[El Salsero Gringo]

One other thing - should we not try getting hold of people from other dance styles as well as the none dancers and MJers?Well, no, not really. I don't think you should try getting MJ'ers, Cerocers, or anyone else. If you do that then you're just stealing customers from someone else's business (at least, that's what the "my customers are *my* property" brigade will say). And those new dancers at your venue will float off again as soon as something else trendy comes along.
So we need new blood (not literally) taking up the beautiful dance.
Where do we get them from?You put a great deal of time, effort and expense into street busks, marketing, advertising and promotion, just like the other successful dance businesses.

[Chef]

I posted the following in another place where we were talking about learning WCS from DVDs and how they would be useful to help beginners off of the bottom of the learning curve and therefore retain more of the people that try WCS. I thought it might have some relevance here.


The idea of having a low cost beginners DVD has been mulling around in my mind ever since seeing the utter confusion in people as they went from week to week of the beginners course that was run at Dartford.

WCS seems to be a complete sod to get off of the bottom of the learning curve with and I think this is why there was such an astonishing drop out rate during and after the course. Ceroc doesn’t have this problem because there is hardly any grounding in theory or technique needed. So newcomers can join at almost any time and there is a support structure to help them with the little they need to know. The only thing that I have seen that really works in WCS are intensive courses (max of 2 x 1 hours per teaching day or the brains get fried) like the ones I was lucky enough to have at Beach Boogie and Dartford. But there doesn’t seem to be any other support for beginners in WCS. No taxi dancers, no revision classes, no beginners DVD (like Ceroc offers on free loan). Nothing to get that all important technique into your soul before next weeks class. About 4 weeks into the beginners class a rather dispirited leader asked me “when does it start to be fun?” He almost felt that he was back at the bottom again every single week. Now it might be that he would never have made a WCS dancer but unless something can be done to support the beginners we do get and convert them into people who are having fun then we are going to continue with classes closing down because our world class teachers can’t make a decent living out of teaching and we punters won’t have a thriving dance scene to have fun in.

I think the idea of a beginners DVD to support beginners during those critical first 6 weeks of a beginners course is a good one. Raw beginners won’t know about what DVDs are out there or where to get them and the dispirited beginners will leave long before they think it is a good idea. Here is the radical bit. I think that the cost of the DVD should be factored into the cost of the course. You want to start learning WCS you sign up for and pay up front for the course and get given (since it is included in the course cost) the beginners DVD to support your course work between the training sessions. This would mean that beginners’ courses run on a regular basis, perhaps every 6 months. I have known many people that have tried to pick up WCS for a few years so the prospect of waiting 6 months to get on the next beginners course wouldn’t seem that bad. The beginners’ course would therefore need to be a separate enterprise from the regular WCS club but would be the gateway into it.

Making a DVD of this type need not be as expensive as it used to be but still teachers of good reputation and authority are required to do it and thing like licenses to use music within the DVD must be obtained and paid for and this adds to the cost.

Unfortunately WCS teachers do not have an umbrella organisation like Ceroc that would handle projects like this centrally and enable the cost and the effort to be spread amongst all. I know that the WCS teachers in this country are talented and passionate about this dance but I can’t help having the feeling that to push WCS forwards in this country a more consolidated national strategy will be required.

So why would WCS teachers want to do things like contributing to a beginners DVD, running beginners courses, organising themselves nationally and doing some things centrally? Because beginners that get off the bottom of that learning curve keep coming back and keep paying week after week. Bigger classes and bigger freestyles mean a decent income for the teachers and that isn’t going to happen with the current beginners drop out rate that I have seen.

If any WCS teachers (or organisation of teachers) want to do a beginners DVD then I will offer my amateur video and editing services free.

WCS is smouldering but is failing to ignite.

So here are my feelings summed up.

WCS beginners need a much better support structure.
The gateway into the regular clubs needs to be well supported and structured beginner courses.
A beginners DVD and /or notes would a good way of supporting beginners.
I think that national cooperation of WCS teachers would achieve more than the individuals could. Whether the individuals could tolerate it is another matter.

[Paul F]

If any WCS teachers (or organisation of teachers) want to do a beginners DVD then I will offer my amateur video and editing services free.



Wow. What an offer :cheers: :cheers: A pro-active suggestion. Better than anything I could have thought of :respect:

Totally agree. The way I got into West Coast swing was through the teachings of Joe Baker. I did manage to get over there a couple of times to see him but it was only through his DVDs (which now make me shudder) that I was able to carry it on and not have any knowledge fade away.

I have no idea how expensive DVDs are to mass produce. My mind keeps wandering over to those Ceroc promotional DVDs which they may still be doing. I thought this was an absolutely brilliant idea but i do remember, back in the days when i was teaching, that we were not to give them out to everyone as there was a definate cost implicaiton.
Such a shame really.

[Yliander]

Yeah, this one went well. Need to find myself a latin partner now.
It could have possibly been easier to find someone who wants to do 10-dance but so far no luck.
1 success out of 10 try-outs. Thats an exhausting ratio. We both know what each other wants to do but we havnt actually sat down and discussed it yet. That could be trouble :)

Its only early days though and we havnt had chance to get many hours under our belts with me flying back to India and all. (yet another reason for me to hate this project)
We have some lessons scheduled for when I get back on the 28th. That will give us more of an idea of compatability although Benoir (her coach) seemed hopeful. but still it's a start - 1 out 10 isn't so bad there are worse ratios out there



Hopefully I will be able to escape for the WCS though but Shhhhh! dont tell her :rofl:


...if she asks Im "washing my hair" :rofl::rofl: :rofl: