Are some dancers incompatible?

[Twirly]

Inspired by a comment of Wendy's...

I wonder - just because a lead is a good dancer with some people, does that mean they are a good dancer with everyone? Are some dancers simply incompatible?

And should those of us who struggle dancing with a particular person make the effort to dance well with them (to improve our dancing), or are we banging our heads against the proverbial brick wall?

After all, in a social context, we don't expect to get on well with everyone we meet, so why should we expect to dance well with everyone we dance with?

[Cruella]

I used to struggle dancing with one guy, I'd come away from the dance really frustrated. 6 months later we just seemed to gel :D Both our ability and style had progressed or changed within this time. So yes it is worth persevering. :flower:

[Donna]

I wonder - just because a lead is a good dancer with some people, does that mean they are a good dancer with everyone? Are some dancers simply incompatible?

If the lead is a good dancer, he should be able to dance just as well with anybody. What you should be asking here is:- just because the follower is a good dancer with some people, does that mean they are a good dancer with everyone. It's a male led dance, so he can only perform at his best so long as his partner follows properly.


And should those of us who struggle dancing with a particular person make the effort to dance well with them (to improve our dancing), or are we banging our heads against the proverbial brick wall?

Well, if the person you're dancing with is more experienced, and you really want to improve then you really have to push yourself and make an effort to follow and throwing in some style where possible. Try and compliment his style. I believe you tend to improve rapidly by dancing with somebody who is more experienced than yourself.

We all have different styles, which makes it even more of a challenge by trying to adapt your style to suit his or vice versa.

When me & Steve first started dancing together, he had a totally different style and feel for music than I did, not forgetting he had a few more years experience than me. I learnt to adapt to that, but then he had to adapt to mine also so that we could gel properly on the dancefloor. However, don't expect it to happen over night, it can take weeks or even months.

[Alice]

I used to struggle dancing with one guy, I'd come away from the dance really frustrated. 6 months later we just seemed to gel :D Both our ability and style had progressed or changed within this time. So yes it is worth persevering. :flower:
I'd agree with this- sometimes it just doesn't work with someone so I don't think it's any use trying every week... but don't give up on them altogether- a few months and then a retry often works wonders:) And saves on the frustration in the meantime!! :yeah:

PS sometimes it can work the other way though- there have been a few dancers I used to really gel with, then didn't see them again for a while, by which time we both found it just wasn't working!!! :cry:

[robd]

On a similar theme was a thread where I said



I think having favourite partners is natural and nothing to be concerned by. My experience is that my favourite partners have often changed over time as my dancing style evolves and people who were favourites when I began dancing I no longer click with in the same way. Again I don't see a concern in this.

However I would caution against sticking with just your favourites as you'll never know what you are missing otherwise. I had been going to Cambridge Ceroc on Wednesdays for almost a year before I danced with the lady who is (IMHO) the best follower there (and therefore most definitely a favourite partner) yet she had been attending on the same nights as I did and we had just never managed to dance together. She is not showy or overflowing with stylistic flourishes but she follows like a dream, turns on the spot and has just the right level of eye contact - what more can a man ask?? Strangely enough it was at a freestyle at a different venue that I first asked her to dance and she's stayed on my 'must ask' list ever since.

Robert


and this still stands.

[Tessalicious]

Interesting thoughts. I see this in action when I go dancing with my flatmates, two other girls of about my age, who each dance slightly differently and as a result have a completely difference experience of dances with the same guy. Part of that I can put down to the track danced to, but not all. I can come away from a dance with a guy and be raving about him, so one of them will go and dance the next with him and come back complaining fo everything from sleaziness (well, you know I don't mind that :wink: ) to yanking to being out of time or doing too many complicated moves - which I either didn't notice or didn't have a problem with. That's usually just an incompatibility problem, and can be solved by quitting while you're ahead and not dancing together again (after the whole of the first dance that is).

On the other hand, some people are worth persevering with. After the first few times I danced with SilverFox (not to use his name in vain, but as a personal example), he stopped dancing with me for a while, and I didn't know why. More recently, we've danced more, and he has explained that back then our dancing just wasn't compatible, he didn't feel I was responding the way he wanted, or in the style he wanted, but over time (and meeting more forumites) we've gotten back to being able to dance together again. So if you think you are incompatible with someone now that you really want to be able to dance with, don't be afraid to ask them if they know why, or to try some new things that match them more, and eventually you will find it much easier.

[Yliander]

t’s a bit of a yes no answer this one – a good dancer is a good dancer – and compatible when talking about good dancers becomes relative – how much are you/they enjoying the dance and how good does it look to those watching.

Some people while a very good dancer just won’t gel/feel comfortable/find a groove with you for dancing – this doesn’t mean that either of the dancers are bad just that they have different styles and while the dancers can adjust to accommodate their partner – the dance just won’t have the same flow/comfort/release as a dance with someone with whom you do gel.

and as others have pointed out this can change over time

[LMC]

:yeah: to what Alice said.

Sometimes the music makes a difference. I dance regularly with a guy at Stevenage who I would *never* ask for a bluesy number - but he's fab at the fast tracks.

[Twirly]

If the lead is a good dancer, he should be able to dance just as well with anybody. What you should be asking here is:- just because the follower is a good dancer with some people, does that mean they are a good dancer with everyone. It's a male led dance, so he can only perform at his best so long as his partner follows properly.

But surely there are different levels of following? I've been dancing a year, and I think I follow "properly", but only to the level I've achieved with my experience to date. Obviously that is continually changing as I gain experience.


Well, if the person you're dancing with is more experienced, and you really want to improve then you really have to push yourself and make an effort to follow and throwing in some style where possible. Try and compliment his style. I believe you tend to improve rapidly by dancing with somebody who is more experienced than yourself.

We all have different styles, which makes it even more of a challenge by trying to adapt your style to suit his or vice versa.

Oh I do, believe me - and have great :respect: and appreciation of all those who lead me around the dancefloor on a regular basis although they have much more experience than me! What if his style is so unusual that you don't know what to do to compliment it? Came across one of those on Saturday - threw me the first few moves, then I realised that couldn't copy/blend in with what he was doing so I'm afraid that I just carried on as normal. Had a good dance though, and he seemed quite happy too from what he said later (and he said he had an unusual style).

[Twirly]

t’s a bit of a yes no answer this one – a good dancer is a good dancer – and compatible when talking about good dancers becomes relative – how much are you/they enjoying the dance and how good does it look to those watching.

Some people while a very good dancer just won’t gel/feel comfortable/find a groove with you for dancing – this doesn’t mean that either of the dancers are bad just that they have different styles and while the dancers can adjust to accommodate their partner – the dance just won’t have the same flow/comfort/release as a dance with someone with whom you do gel.

and as others have pointed out this can change over time

Yep, this is the sort of thing I was wondering about, and what Tessa said too. It's not that I have a particular problem with any one individual (any that I do have I attribute to my level of experience/skill at present), it was more of a general point for discussion - to find out other people's thoughts and experiences.

[bigdjiver]

I danced with a girl at the champs once, and I felt it was like dancing with a brick. She recommended lessons. I had no problem with any others that day, and even had a few commendations on my lead. Comes time to look at the video my "brick" is dancing beautifully with a series of partners. For once, I do not have a trace of a theory of how this could have been.

[Donna]

I can come away from a dance with a guy and be raving about him, so one of them will go and dance the next with him and come back complaining fo everything from sleaziness (well, you know I don't mind that :wink: ) to yanking to being out of time or doing too many complicated moves - which I either didn't notice or didn't have a problem with. That's usually just an incompatibility problem, and can be solved by quitting while you're ahead and not dancing together again (after the whole of the first dance that is).

After the first few times I danced with SilverFox (not to use his name in vain, but as a personal example), he stopped dancing with me for a while, and I didn't know why. More recently, we've danced more, and he has explained that back then our dancing just wasn't compatible, he didn't feel I was responding the way he wanted, or in the style he wanted, but over time (and meeting more forumites) we've gotten back to being able to dance together again. So if you think you are incompatible with someone now that you really want to be able to dance with, don't be afraid to ask them if they know why, or to try some new things that match them more, and eventually you will find it much easier.

I think what you've said here explains it. It comes down to two things why you might be incompatable.

1) Experience
2) Personality

Whilst the lead may be a good dancer with a few years experience under his belt, it doesn't mean that he's the problem if the follower walks away feeling disappointed. She may well be feeling disappointed because 1) she may not be as experienced as he is or 2) she was unable to throw in her usual style - which in this case, I'd blame the lead this time. If an experienced follower can follow other good leads, and struggles with another, he's obviously too dominent and should give the lady some time to play.

I think what your friends experienced here Tessalicious, was a personality clash. (2) You say they felt he was sleazy, yet it seemed to fairly normal for you.

People have different personalities on the dance floor, and after all, dancing is all about expressing yourself. Which now brings me back to what Twirly said:


After all, in a social context, we don't expect to get on well with everyone we meet, so why should we expect to dance well with everyone we dance with?

:yeah: This is so true, and makes sense coming to think of it.

Again, this could all come down to no 1 again - experience.

I find the majority who are beginners or lower intermediate level are still too shy to express themselves on the dancefloor, and when dancing with somebody who isn't, can make them feel uneasy from beginning to end.

If your friends were to dance with that same guy a few months down the line, they might come back to you with a totally different opinion. Who knows?

[Donna]

Oh I do, believe me - and have great :respect: and appreciation of all those who lead me around the dancefloor on a regular basis although they have much more experience than me! What if his style is so unusual that you don't know what to do to compliment it?

It may seem unusual to you if they've been dancing longer than you. Either that, or they have another dancing background.

I remember dancing with one guy who has done hip hop, and decided it would be a good idea to throw some of into his jive (whatever floats your boat huh?) and he done it really well too! He is the only person I have ever struggled with, because I'm not an experienced hip hop dancer. If I was, I believe I could have given it loads and we'd have looked great - all I could do was follow and do a few body rolls. That's all you can do, is follow them. If you didn't like it, don't dance with them again. If you did enjoy it and you feel you might gain something out of then you know what to do.

[David Bailey]

I danced with a girl at the champs once, and I felt it was like dancing with a brick. She recommended lessons. I had no problem with any others that day, and even had a few commendations on my lead. Comes time to look at the video my "brick" is dancing beautifully with a series of partners. For once, I do not have a trace of a theory of how this could have been.
I had this experience at Chiswick on Saturday - had the Dance From Hell, then I saw the same woman dancing wonderfully with another guy a little while later.

Honestly, I think she wasn't really putting anything into the dance with me, maybe I should have auditioned for her first... :innocent:

[Twirly]

What was it that made it the dance from hell?

[Lory]

Interesting thread :worthy:

I think we all look for different things in a dance, some look for a seamless follow, that doesn't disrupt or interfere with their lead at all but also doesn't add anything. And some look for a partner who will play musically, so they have something to feed off.

As a follower we develop a style we enjoy and it's the luck of the draw if your style fits in with what the leaders looking for.

But hopefully as one becomes more experienced, we can become more and more adaptable and able to switch from one roll to another.
I know I definitely try to alter my style when dancing with some of the men from the forum, simply cos I've read what they look for in a follow! :o

.......

Some men I prefer not to get so UPC with, whilst others, I feel totally comfortable with :yum: :whistle:

Generally speaking, I don't dance well to very fast music but there's a few men who really know how to make me move! :respect:

On the other hand, I've had men ask me to dance, then heard the track and said, OH NO, I need a slower one for you :sick: :blush: :rofl:


two other girls of about my age, who each dance slightly differently and as a result have a completely difference experience of dances with the same guy. I have the same thing with some of my friends.


he didn't feel I was responding the way he wanted, or in the style he wanted, Well, you have to admire his honesty. :na:

There's lot's of men, who I consider to be dance scene mate's but very rarely dance with and I'll probably never know why :confused:

[David Bailey]

What was it that made it the dance from hell?
Hmmm... Well, she looked good, she moved well, and I was on form, so I asked her for a dance, as you do. It just didn't work - no connection, no eye contact, almost no acknowledgement of me. Worse than that, very little acknowledgement of lead changes - she pretty much did her own thing all the time. I really felt like stopping dancing 30 seconds into it and saying "Shall we give it a miss?", but I couldn't think of a polite way of doing that.

OK, to be fair, it was her first dance, she didn't know me from Adam, and I imagine I can take a while to get used to if you're used to a certain set style of leader.

But to be unfair, she clearly knew what she was doing, she paid no attention to variations of lead, and I very definitely got "I'm not interested in dancing with you" vibes off her all through the track.

Therefore, Dance From Hell.

(She was probably from Fulham :rofl: :na: )

[David Bailey]

There's lot's of men, who I consider to be dance scene mate's but very rarely dance with and I'll probably never know why :confused:
It's coz we can never fight our way past your throng of admirers... :sad: :innocent:

[Juju]

I think you either 'click' with someone, or you don't, regardless of ability or experience. It's 'chemistry'.

[MartinHarper]

Should those of us who struggle dancing with a particular person make the effort to dance well with them (to improve our dancing), or are we banging our heads against the proverbial brick wall?

I feel like, in a social dance like MJ, it's good to have an aim to be able to dance well with everyone, even those who are currently incompatible. However, I don't think asking someone incompatible for lots and lots of dances is a great way to improve your dancing - and it can be demoralising.
I'd say it's better to watch them dance, and try to get an idea for where their style might come from: is it influenced by another dance? Is it focused around a certain type or speed of music? Is it modelled on a certain teacher? That should give you an idea of classes to go to that will help broaden your dance horizons and help you become more compatible.
The other good thing about watching someone incompatible with you dance is that you can see how other people adapt to their style. It can be something really simple.

[CeeCee]

Originally posted by Twirly
Are some dancers simply incompatible?
Yes

Regardless of their experience or reputation sometimes the experience is just not positive. If I don’t enjoy dancing with someone and/or they don’t enjoy dancing with me we don’t bother again and everyone is a winner.

Originally posted by Yliander
a good dancer is a good dancer – and compatible when talking about good dancers becomes relative
Well said and we remember dances for different reasons.

I’ve had some wonderful dances with some excellent leaders in the past. It is hard to mistake eye contact, body language and compliments so this thread has made me wonder why:-

Forumite 1 - hasn’t danced with me for months after many lovely delightful dances
Forumite 2 - ditto
Forumite 3 - hasn’t danced with me since the first and only wonderful dance we had many many months ago, shame.
Forumite 4 - a normally charming man, was unbelievably rude to me when all I tried to do was say hallo.


Originally posted by Lory
There's lot's of men, who I consider to be dance scene mate's but very rarely dance with and I'll probably never know why :confused:
I have this too, so until I find out why, a corner of my heart is officially broken.

[Feelingpink]

There have been some really good points made. The other things that seem to affect the 'clicking' between partners (for me) are what we hear in the music and the follower's style - whether active, passive or flicking between the two. Sheepman and PaulF are two people who seem to respond to things in the music beyond the obvious. It usually takes me a few dances with either of them to get into their groove; a short dance with either is not satisfying at all - at least for me - and I suspect for them as well. It's worth the effort and great to be listening for different things, but took me a while to work out.

In complete contrast, if the leader wants to be totally in charge and won't let me play, then trust me, we're not going to get on. I 'can' follow without playing, but it somehow makes me feel like such a robot that I just wouldn't want to dance with that person again. I can understand that the leader has (or may have) carefully thought-out moves, breaks and musicality that my 'playing' might disrupt, but can't bring myself to thoroughly enjoy a dictatorship.

[Gadget]

CeeCee - :flower: Hope none were me.

Yes, there are some dancers that just are not compatible - although I've only found two so far.
Personally, I think that most of it is an ingrained pattern or timeing (normally footwork) that they can't not do and I have a problem in picking it up and addapting my dance to it.
Normally it's in dancers that you know can dance; you've seen them dance well with other people, but you just can't 'click' - it can take me a dance or two to 'get' it, but I'm stubborn* like that and believe that I should be able to dance well with anyone.
{* arrogant? :whistle:}

:shrug: I'm working on the second one - getting better, I think in a month or so I should have reduced it to one again.

[robd]

{Plaintive posting}


Having only once been lucky enough to dance with CeeCee I simply cannot understand these forumites who appear to be passing up the opportunity :confused: A fabulous dancer (and a fine writer), my only consolation in this sorry story is that it leaves her available more often to the rest of us :clap:

It's going off thread slightly but I am surprised sometimes when I see how frequently people I consider to be must-dance partners are sitting out and for how long. I guess the predatory women factor comes into play and perhaps some potential partners are intimidated by the excellence of their abilities??

Robert

[Whitebeard]

Forumite 1 - hasn’t danced with me for months after many lovely delightful dances
Forumite 2 - ditto
Forumite 3 - hasn’t danced with me since the first and only wonderful dance we had many many months ago, shame.
Forumite 4 - a normally charming man, was unbelievably rude to me when all I tried to do was say hallo.

I have this too, so until I find out why, a corner of my heart is officially broken.

There's a local Linedancing club called Heroes and Villains - it seems that male forumites could be similarly described ;-)

[Minnie M]

......... I guess the predatory women factor comes into play ........
:yeah: I started a thread about this :flower: it can be a real problem


......... perhaps some potential partners are intimidated by the excellence of their abilities........
I happen to know one particular top dancer who is a really down to earth really nice person, but often sits out because men say they feel intimidated by her - such a shame as she is delightful, always smiles when dancing and NEVER refuses a dance.

[MartinHarper]

I’ve had some wonderful dances with some excellent leaders in the past. It is hard to mistake eye contact, body language and compliments so this thread has made me wonder why.

If they are all forumites, I recommend PMing them and finding out. Then they'll know that you want to dance with them, and you'll know why they've not danced with you. I'd say the odds are pretty good there's been some kind of misunderstanding somewhere.