Taxi dancers: Minimum Necessary Criteria (MNC) training

[David Bailey]

Inspired by:

Yo, David, dude - just chuck in a few Three Letter Acronyms (doesn't matter what they stand for, just make'em up)
Clearly, whilst there have been a lot of threads about taxi dancers, there's been a definite scarcity of threads with TLA-related titles, so I'm taking this opportunity to rectify that situation:

In the "Taxi Dancers (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7548)" thread, Minnie M asked:

"What experience / knowledge are required for current day taxi dancers ?"
In the "Training Crew (taxi dancers & demos) (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8173)" thread, Gus asked:

"Training taxi dancers .... does anyone actualy do it or are the poor sheep just left to fend for themsleves?"
In neither thread was there a particularly informative response.

Finally, in the "Taxi Dancers (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6086)" thread, there's a lot of discussion of remuneration, but not much about training, despite Tiggstours making a valiant effort with:

it frustrates me that there is alot of irregularities. For example:
There is no set guidelines of EXACTLY what is expected from a taxi dancer:
...
Taxi dancers do not go through any intial training for their role.
So, I'll try again...

What's your wishlist for taxi-dancer training / acceptance? What, in short would you as a dancer like to see of all taxi dancers, in all venues, which may not be always happening now?

[robd]

I'd like to see more topless taxi-dancers.

Male or female, I'm not fussed.

[Rhythm King]

I'd like to see more topless taxi-dancers.

Male or female, I'm not fussed.
Don't you mean TTDs, come on Rob, get with the programme and use more TLAs ***.

[David Bailey]

Don't you mean TTDs, come on Rob, get with the programme and use more TLAs ***.
TTD's been taken already - Tango Thread Diversion.

We're running short of TLAs :eek: - is there a TLA to describe this problem?

(As, clearly, no one cares about how well-trained taxi dancers are :rolleyes: )

[Juju]

We're running short of TLAs :eek: - is there a TLA to describe this problem?

Acronym Shortage Situation, or ASS.

[jivecat]

I think in some cases the best-qualified person for the job is the one who happens to be available and willing.

[SilverFox]

I think in some cases the best-qualified person for the job is the one who happens to be available and willing.:yeah: I would say in most cases. So the MNC would be 2 arms, 2 legs and a pulse....

[onkar]

I think in some cases the best-qualified person for the job is the one who happens to be available and willing.


Having been a newbie who was helped a great deal by Taxi dancers, then being a Taxi dancer, and currently being a venue manager, I have experience from both sides of the fence.

In my personal experience (and not speaking on behalf of any franchise), most TAxi dancers do not get any real training to speak of. I know some teacher's do make a great effort with their Taxi's but they are the minority.

Also the reward structure greatly influences Taxi duty take up & rentention. In my area they have what I consider quite a poor incentive, free entry on the Taxi night plus one extra free night, result is that most Taxi's last 6-9 months. Some of the Midlands based venues give Taxi Crew unlimted free entry (to all their venues) providing they Taxi twice a month. The result tends to be they are happy to continue Taxi duty for years, as the savings are significant.

Also having Taxi crew with the right temprament is vital. Need them to be keen, need them to have patience, and quite often have fingers of steel to cope with the grippers. Many VM's I know like to get people as they come up through the ranks of experience and are good dancers with 6-9 months under their belt. At this point being asked to Taxi is flattering (recognition of one's dance ability), and so most tend to say yes. More experienced dancers tend to avoid it because they dance for the social aspects or to improve their dancing and so view being a Taxi as distracting.

There also tends to be more female Taxi's than males, which I have found to be the case at most venues where the rewards scheme is poor.


Onkar

[onkar]

I'd like to see more topless taxi-dancers.

Male or female, I'm not fussed.

Rob,

I'll put this to the Taxi's at Cambridge and see what the response is. Will ask them to respond directly to you!


Onkar

[Sparkles]

When I became a taxi dancer I went through what I would consider to be quite an extensive 'vetting' proceedure (maybe they just thought I was a shadey character and needed sussing out :eek: ).

Firstly, they wouldn't let me apply until I'd been Cerocing in London for at least three months (even though I'd done a year's ceroc elsewhere and have been dancing forever).

To apply I had to ask a taxi dancer, who suggested it to the Ceroc tacher at my local venue, who then came and chatted with me, who then gave my name to David Bradley, who then also came and had a chat with me about it.

I was then given an application form to fill in (which was fairly detailed and asked things like "how many times a week do you exersise?" and "what do you do to maintain a healthy lifestyle?" - this is an approximation from memory, however).

Once I had handed the form in I was given a list of moves and another form detailing what would be expected of me in 'dancing terms' as a taxi dancer; as in what level my own dancing should be at and which moves I should know how to dance and teach as both a leader and as a follower.

I was then given two weeks to prepare for my audition. The audition consisted of me and another lady dancing and teaching all the beginner's moves in turn as a leader and as a follower, I demoed for her and she for me. We were observed and corrected where necessary. The whole thing took two hours!!
We were then given 'Taxi dancer handbooks' with all our duties described to us, which we sat down and went through page by page after the audition. We were then taken around the local venue and shown how things worked at that *specific* venue.

Then, I was assigned Ceroc night and put with an experienced Taxi dancer who showed me the ropes. After a while I was more confident and teaching the beginner's review class and eventually *I* was the "experienced" taxi dancer and had new recruits coming to learn and observe taxiing in progress.

I never thought it would be so involved when I asked to become a taxi dancer... and I fear that it is not so involved for many who become taxi dancers. I think I was trained pretty well and given all the relavent information - and I was even 'checked up on' from time to time as a matter of course - and these unexpected 'drop-ins' seemed to be for two reasons a) to see that I was fullfilling my duties correctly, and b) to make sure I was happy and see if I had any questions.

I stayed taxiing for 14 months and, on the whole, found it to be an enjoyable and rewarding experience.

[Frankie_4711]

I have recently become a Taxi Dancer, and this is how it happened:

I filled in an application form which asked questions such as why I wanted to become one, why I thought I would be good as one, what I thought the job entailed etc, and I was supplied with a Job Description.

I was then visited at one of my regular venues during a Beginners Class to be assessed - the assessor danced along side me both as lead and follow and we then had a talk with a quick overview of what would be expected, what we (there were two of us being assessed that evening) were signing up for and to ensure we were still happy to go ahead with our application.

When a position became available I was sent a list of Beginner Moves along with the phraseology that we should use to call each move, and encouraged to attend some of the Review Classes in the weeks running up to my first session to get a feel for how they should be run.

I also assisted the Taxi Dancers the week before I was due to start, while they were greeting and signing up the Newbies to see what happened during that part of the evening (this was at my own request).

For the first couple of weeks we (my Taxi partner is new as well) were shadowed by experienced Taxis to ensure we were 'doing it right' and to help out if there were any problems.

(This would have happened before I started, but it was unfortunate timing that it was not possible ... ) The week after my first Taxi session I (and 6 other new Taxis) attended a half day training session where we were run through a Taxi Dancer's night in great detail - what we are expected to do, how we should do it, what to do if this, that or the other happened, where to be and when etc. - and got a chance to ask all those niggly little questions that had been preying on our minds. We also took part in a 'mock' Taxi Session to practice calling and timing the moves, each one of us doing 2 moves picked at random there and then. We were supplied with full written instructions on how to run the class (order, what to include, what to look for, what not to do etc), a separate list of hints,tips and general instructions, not just for the class but about being a Taxi in general, a further list of 'things to look out for' for each individual move, as well as another copy of the phraseology and job description. Pretty exhaustive really!! The training session was absolutely invaluable!! :clap:

Does that answer the question?

[Night Owl]

I'd like to see more topless taxi-dancers.

Male or female, I'm not fussed.


Topless me nah

Thought part of a taxi dancers role was to encourage beginners to come back not put them off for life

[Gadget]

How could you tell the Taxis' from the general populous though? :whistle:

[WittyBird]

I taxi for Ceroc Chilterns and Ceroc Metro. There was no training whatsoever, I was approached by the franchisee's and asked to do it.

IMHO I think there should be some formal training and think the way that Frankie_4711 and Sparkles were taken on and approved is a good approach.



it frustrates me that there is alot of irregularities. For example:
There is no set guidelines of EXACTLY what is expected from a taxi dancer

:yeah:


I believe Ceroc Kent hold 6 monthly reviews of their taxi's - Maybe Taz can explain what they do?

[LMC]

How could you tell the Taxis' from the general populous though? :whistle:

Make them wear Ceroc orange :devil:

Perhaps they should also have little lights on their heads which they can switch on when they are dancing with someone to "assess" them, so everyone else can watch if they want (good cross-reference eh?)

Sensible answer: I'd been dancing 6 months and b*tched to Adam about something or other at my local venue, Stevenage - I forget exactly what now. He promptly asked me if I would taxi, and even before I officially told him "yes", I'd had an e-mail from the venue manager with a rota and a three or four page manual (which is rather good). I think the system that Sparkles describes is a good one, but I'm lazy - only taxi-ing because I was asked, I wouldn't have applied, or accepted the 'ask' if there was any kind of form or application process. Stevenage only has 3 or 4 female taxis and 8 or 9 men (might even be more now) and there are usually 4 of us on duty on any given night. No formal training - just learned by watching the others. The venue managers often do the review classes and do an excellent job :nice:

CerocMetro just gives free entry when taxi-ing plus an admit one for the following week (valid at any Metro venue/freestyle). A taxi card for free entry at all Metro venues would be nice and might get me to more of their events rather than competing ones in cases of a clash.

MNC: should know names of beginners' moves as well as how to dance them (believe it or not, I've heard a manspin described as a step across in a review class - v. confusing for beginners).

Need to be willing to dance with anyone/everyone whilst on duty - and that *should* be kept an eye on. If there are no beginners/not enough beginners, then fair enough, dance with anyone who asks - but don't be chasing down the better dancers while on duty.

Male taxis should at least try following a few classes/freestyle dances when they first start taxi-ing, so they know how it can feel - even if they don't take a follow role regularly. Us girls have to learn to lead, so fair's fair :innocent:

[jivecat]

Wow, I'm completely amazed at Sparkles and Frankie 4711's stories.:respect: They really put you girls through it. I would not have made my above remarks if I had known that this kind of selection went on.

However I'm fairly sure these stringent standards are not applied everywhere. I have seen instances of people working as taxi dancers who could not time the basic moves correctly and yanked and were a thoroughly poor model for beginner dancers. I assumed that they were doing it because noone else was willing and available. I assumed they couldn't have been strictly vetted or trained because they a.wouldn't have been chosen and b. would have been trained out of bad habits.

I think there is a sort of logic in choosing relatively new dancers to do the job because they are enthusiastic and can remember what it feels like to be a complete beginner. But I think the average Cerocer won't have acquired enough personal expertise to be teaching others until they've been dancing AT LEAST a year, although some might.

As well as OK dancing ability I think a warm & friendly personality and a genuine desire to help others is incredibly important, as is the ability to organise the refresher classes well.

I can only remember two of the taxi dancers when I was a beginner. Neither was very approachable. One used to shout at me when I got bits of moves wrong, though I get on fine with him now. The other I never dance with now, through mutual agreement, I think! The people who were kind enough to really help me were not taxi dancers.

[Tazmanian Devil]

I believe Ceroc Kent hold 6 monthly reviews of their taxi's - Maybe Taz can explain what they do?
That they do.

I had my review on Monday and they are now giving 12 month contracts to people they think donot need 6 monthly reviews.

Basically what happens is the 2 taxi managers come and sit in on your class. They have this big list of things that you are supposed to be doing and some tick boxes which are Good, Fair and Poor. Also they write down any comments they think may help you with your taxi-ing and things they would like to take from your class to help other Taxi's enhance their teaching.

Things included on review are your apperence, Your Terminology, How often you move the beginners round, How clear and precise you are with your teaching, whether you make the class fun etc etc.

Ceroc kent are very strict with thier Taxi's as frankie has said here (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showpost.php?p=247991&postcount=11) (thanks for that Frankie saved me writing a bigger book).

Next review June 2007 :clap: :clap:

[foxylady]

[typical Foxy blunt speaking]

I was also subject to the same vetting procedure as Sparkles, and was therefore astonished when I often found my fellow taxi's did not seem to know their arse from their elbow, let alone right from left or how to count a move to a beat...
Most seemed to ignore dancing with beginners, and just be there for the free entry. Most seemed to be extemely boring... (putting their classes to sleep)
I know thats a huge generalisation and there are some fab taxi's out there, but I am just relating my experience...

I stayed being a taxi for 3 years, mostly because I enjoyed it and also my oppo was a good guy who was fun to work with...

I demo now, and I prefer that as I can dance with whomsoever I choose, and I like being able to bring on beginners, but not exclusively... I believe the demo has as much responsibility as the teachers to dance with punters, although again I am sure this will be disputed...

[/typical Foxy blunt speaking]

[LMC]

I believe the demo has as much responsibility as the teachers to dance with punters, although again I am sure this will be disputed...
I'll dispute :na: - I've always thought of demos as, well, stretch limos :rofl: - i.e. like a taxi dancer in that they are "working" - but dancing with anyone rather than "just" beginners. Are demos paid? I didn't think they were, and if they're not, then I don't think so much should be expected of them as of a teacher :flower:

[Tazmanian Devil]

Are demos paid?
Not with Ceroc Greenwich or Ceroc Kent they aren't can't comment on other franchises as i don't know :flower:

[LMC]

Just re-reading & thinking about Taz' post on the review process - v. interesting, and thinking about it, very useful.

From FL's experience, it sounds like pre-appointment vetting isn't necessarily that effective. But watching taxis in action would/could be. I think I'd prefer it to be continuous assessment though so whatever I was not doing so well could be corrected ASAP. There's also the 'nerves' aspect to someone sitting there and watching you with a checklist on a clipboard :eek:

What's covered by appearance Taz? - I'm sure it's just that you're clean and reasonably tidy, as the punters are seeing you as a representative of Ceroc, but is there anything else?

Do the assessors ask for feedback on the taxis from the punters?

And is taxi "behaviour" in freestyle also covered? - I confess that I sometimes fret that I'm not working hard enough, 'cos sometimes there aren't that many beginners in Stevenage and I run out (only 3 guys in the review class the other week) - but if I haven't got around all the guys in the review class then I will decline all other offers "until I'm off duty". I'll freestyle with women when I'm off duty, but not when I'm on duty - I tell girls then that the guys need all the help they can get and I have to be a follower :D

[foxylady]

I'll dispute :na: - I've always thought of demos as, well, stretch limos :rofl: - i.e. like a taxi dancer in that they are "working" - but dancing with anyone rather than "just" beginners. Are demos paid? I didn't think they were, and if they're not, then I don't think so much should be expected of them as of a teacher :flower:

They're not paid, although they do get an admit one in Ceroc London, and I guess it depends on how you want to play the game... and what the teacher expects...

Teachers I demo for expect demo's to dance with punters, help them if necessary, all levels, and to spread themselves around... ie not to only dance with their favourites... I consider it part of the job and I enjoy it.. I know that many teachers don't expect this, and many demo's both male and female would not want to do this - which is a shame...

[LMC]

Teachers I demo for expect demo's to dance with punters, help them if necessary, all levels, and to spread themselves around... ie not to only dance with their favourites... I consider it part of the job and I enjoy it.. I know that many teachers don't expect this, and many demo's both male and female woudl not want to do this - which is a shame...
I agree and :respect: for being so committed (since I'm just a beginner lead I'll try to pluck up the courage to ask for a dance next time I see you :D)

You're very experienced and knowledgeable, so the following don't apply in your case, but my thinking was more along the lines that many demos wouldn't be up to the same 'standard' of feedback and assistance as would be expected from a teacher. Often, it's one of the off-duty taxis who demos in Stevenage (never me, I'm not stylish enough :rofl: ) and I don't think any of us are up to "teacher" standard (3 of the 4 of us - including me - definitely ain't).

[David Bailey]

I'll dispute :na: - I've always thought of demos as, well, stretch limos
"Stretch Limos" Copyright DavidJames, 2005 - that'll be 50p, thanks :)

[El Salsero Gringo]

I'm training new taxi-dancers at Muswell Hill, and I'm doing my best to make sure they know their arses, elbows, which end is 'up' and other useful stuff.

The one thing you can't train someone to have is the right attitude though. So give me that, and I'll work on the rest.

[robd]

I'll dispute :na: - I've always thought of demos as, well, stretch limos :rofl:

I'd say FoxyLady was more like a Bentley - super smooth and you never want the (...ahem..) ride to stop :wink:

[tsh]

The most important criteria for a female taxi imo is being able to follow, and not backleading except as a last resort. (Yes, I have followed in a couple of xmas classes, so I know it's difficult with complete beginners)

There do seem to be two distinct classes of taxis, those with some experience, and those who are more at a teacher/competition level (obviously not so many of these) - and from a leaders point of view both are useful (assuming that the aim is to learn to dance)

Sean

[TiggsTours]

:yeah: I would say in most cases. So the MNC would be 2 arms, 2 legs and a pulse....
I think you'll find that goes against disability discrimination laws.

[TiggsTours]

I have recently become a Taxi Dancer, and this is how it happened:

I filled in an application form which asked questions such as why I wanted to become one, why I thought I would be good as one, what I thought the job entailed etc, and I was supplied with a Job Description.

I was then visited at one of my regular venues during a Beginners Class to be assessed - the assessor danced along side me both as lead and follow and we then had a talk with a quick overview of what would be expected, what we (there were two of us being assessed that evening) were signing up for and to ensure we were still happy to go ahead with our application.

When a position became available I was sent a list of Beginner Moves along with the phraseology that we should use to call each move, and encouraged to attend some of the Review Classes in the weeks running up to my first session to get a feel for how they should be run.

I also assisted the Taxi Dancers the week before I was due to start, while they were greeting and signing up the Newbies to see what happened during that part of the evening (this was at my own request).

For the first couple of weeks we (my Taxi partner is new as well) were shadowed by experienced Taxis to ensure we were 'doing it right' and to help out if there were any problems.

(This would have happened before I started, but it was unfortunate timing that it was not possible ... ) The week after my first Taxi session I (and 6 other new Taxis) attended a half day training session where we were run through a Taxi Dancer's night in great detail - what we are expected to do, how we should do it, what to do if this, that or the other happened, where to be and when etc. - and got a chance to ask all those niggly little questions that had been preying on our minds. We also took part in a 'mock' Taxi Session to practice calling and timing the moves, each one of us doing 2 moves picked at random there and then. We were supplied with full written instructions on how to run the class (order, what to include, what to look for, what not to do etc), a separate list of hints,tips and general instructions, not just for the class but about being a Taxi in general, a further list of 'things to look out for' for each individual move, as well as another copy of the phraseology and job description. Pretty exhaustive really!! The training session was absolutely invaluable!! :clap:

Does that answer the question?
I think that all answers the question of what should happen, but not what does happen in all franchises. My problem has always been the lack of consistency across franchises, and this is a great example of one that's got it right!

When I became a taxi it was a little different, they people I went to work for had known me for years, so all I had to do was ask, we did (about a year later) have a half days training, but that never happened again in our franchise (that was about 4 years ago now). The most vetting I've seen of new taxi dancers at our franchise now is that I was asked to go and have a dance with some bloke to see what I thought of him.

I gave up taxiing a few months ago now, primarily down to my feeling on this lack of consistency, and lack of respect for the role taxi dancers play in some franchises.

[mikeyr]

You cant teach DEMO, we just...... are:cool:

I have been Demoing CEROC for 3 years on and off, all over the south east. Firstly the renumeration package, varies from franchise to franchise, it can be just free entry on the night or it can be as much as free entry on the night and an "Admit one".....oh and free bottle of water sometimes too :awe: .

When Demoing for a teacher regularly at any venue, I feel I am part of that venue team and apart from the run up to a competition(I still try to dance quite a few with the punters), I like to "work the floor" quite hard, I just feel its part of the job, its a partnership.

What training do we get, none, we rely on our innate ability to pick up any, and i do mean any CEROC(ish) routine in under five mins, be good straight "men" for the hilarious one liners our dear teaching partners come out with:what: . Oh and of course all your own teeth.

Plus we are all extremely good looking, witty and refined people in real life.:what::flower:

[El Salsero Gringo]

I have been Demoing CEROC for 3 years on and off, all over the south east. Firstly the renumeration package, varies from franchise to franchise, it can be just free entry on the night or it can be as much as free entry on the night and an "Admit one".....oh and free bottle of water sometimes too :awe: .I'm told you've really made it as a demo when the teacher gets your name right every time. :whistle:

[Stuart M]

:yeah: I would say in most cases. So the MNC would be 2 arms, 2 legs and a pulse....I think you'll find that goes against disability discrimination laws.
But spare a thought for all the undead who'll be excluded, despite Simon Pegg and Ed Wright's best efforts with their campaign film (www.shaunofthedeadmovie.com) from a couple of years back.

[mikeyr]

I'm told you've really made it as a demo when the teacher gets your name right every time. :whistle:


You have to forgive them, bless em, they're Ceroc teachers they know no better:what: :whistle: :D

[Tazmanian Devil]

What's covered by appearance Taz? - I'm sure it's just that you're clean and reasonably tidy, as the punters are seeing you as a representative of Ceroc, but is there anything else?
All of the above buut you have to wear Black bottoms with your clean ironed Taxi T-shirt.


Do the assessors ask for feedback on the taxis from the punters?
Nope :what: Shhh Don't give them any more ideas :eek:


And is taxi "behaviour" in freestyle also covered?
Yes. You are assessed on your behaviour with the new people, I.E. When they first walk through the door you take them off to complete their forms and explain what it is they are to expect from the evening then take them to the frount of the que to receive their new member card. Once the class starts one taxi partner is to stay on the main desk for about 10 minutes just in case any more newbies arrive after the teacher has started. Then you are assessed on your behaviour in the class. Then on the first part of freestyle I.E wheter you hunt out the newbies and get them dancing with you. In the main class and taxi class Women are only allowed to follow with the exception of when you have come off the end in your taxi class you can then lead until you move the ladies on again to which we join in the move around.

[Minnie M]

Intesting ............

It appears it depends on the Franchisee ........

Silly really, if the Franchisee wants to succeed and produce good dancers they need good taxi dancers, so it is their interest to train them and to give them incentive

[LMC]

Well, I'm with ESG in that attitude is more important initially than teaching ability.

Where the "system" seems to fail is that many franchises seem to appoint the friendliest dancers as taxis and then don't follow up with any kind of training or checks that they are "doing their job". I've flatteringly been told that I do a very good job - but have never had specific feedback, and have never had any training. Many of the review classes I went to as a beginner (and I went to various venues) literally just went over class moves, with hardly anything, sometimes nothing on technique/etiquette - the basics of which I always try to cover if I'm running the review class (a bit of lead & follow, spinning, personal hygiene, etc). I know I wouldn't be doing a good job if it hadn't been for the help of people on here. None of the other taxis at Stevenage are on here AFAIK :(

[ginger M]

As far as i know taxi dancers aren't paid (in Scotland anyway). Is it fair to expect them to train up without payment? I'd be happy to taxi dance (if I woz good enough :rolleyes:) but it's quite a committment I'd imagine, and a lot of people.

[MartinHarper]

I think my criteria would be:

1) Dances with beginners.
2) Dances the same style of dance as is being "taught" in class.
3) Isn't scary.

I was going to add "(4) Looks hot", but on reflection I think it's better if you have the hot dancers be non-taxis so that beginners have lots of motivation to get better.

[LMC]

Hmmm, well I'm sure I fail on No. 3 there. And I think I'm on shaky ground on No. 2 as well, because I don't use the semi-circle and I utterly refuse to bounce my hand up and down...

[Stuart M]

I was going to add "(4) Looks hot", but on reflection I think it's better if you have the hot dancers be non-taxis so that beginners have lots of motivation to get better.
Rubbish. Drivel. I completely disagree and so does Franck. You'd never make it as a taxi-selecting-type-person in Scotland.
:whistle:

[Stuart M]

Well, I'm with ESG in that attitude is more important initially than teaching ability.

Where the "system" seems to fail is that many franchises seem to appoint the friendliest dancers as taxis and then don't follow up with any kind of training or checks that they are "doing their job". I've flatteringly been told that I do a very good job - but have never had specific feedback, and have never had any training.
One aspect of dancer assessments which hasn't been touched on much (unless I've missed it, sorry) is whether they have any value as a teaching feedback tool.
For example, if too many thumby ladies were progressing at a venue, then maybe the taxis/teachers at that venue should be doing more about thumby dancers. Of course such feedback would be of limited value - you'd need to know where the dancer got most of their learning, they could have done a workshop, etc.

Would any of the Aussie forumites care to comment - does the card system down there provide useful feedback on teaching/taxiing issues?