Getting to closed position after a turn

[robd]

To show I can post something other than snide asides or silly in-jokes I thought I would ask advice from leaders (and followers) out there about how best to gather a follower into closed position following a turn (usually ACW but could be CW I guess).

This has bugged me for a while and a good example came in NnN's class at Camber where a backhander (in itself a tricky move to lead well consistently) was followed immediately by an ACW turn at completion of which the couple were expected to be in closed position. I had been trying without success to perform a similar combination - going from a backhander straight into closed position - prior to this class and the issue then was the same:


None of the ladies have their left arm away from their side as they complete the turn meaning that I cannot slide my right arm in underneath it to pull us into a closed position.

Of course, during NnN's class it worked fine partly as I stayed Fixed-Partner (I know, I don't usually endorse this but at Camber with the chaotic rotation I preferred it) and partly because of course the lady expected and anticipated it.

Every attempt to do the same combo - backhander plus ACW turn - in that evening's freestyle went pearshaped for the reason outlined above. I am sure it's my leading at fault and were Nigel to be leading it in freestyle he'd manage to do it so I'd like to know any tips anyone might have to help me achieve this more easily?

Robert

[DavidB]

It is easiest from a travelling return (ACW turn). As the lady goes past you, put your right hand on her back. It takes the lady about one count to feel this, and bring her left arm out of the way and onto your shoulder.

I find it difficult to do from a normal return, but as I hardly ever do them, it doesn't worry me.

From a clockwise turn (eg in the middle of a First Move), the key is to step towards the lady. You want to be standing where you would be in a closed position as she is turning round. Then you let her complete her movement as normal, and adjust your position to make it feel like a closed move. Don't force her to dance to your position.

You still want to get you hand on her back as soon as possible. But beware the two soft squidgy objects that can get in the way (frequently followed by a slap)

Ladies don't expect this move unless you do about 4 in a row. Their free hand might be doing all sorts of styling during the turn. She might decide to do a double turn. All this means you might get hit as you step in close to her. It is however a great move to do when the floor is crowded, as the lady is unlikely to be doing much styling, and it keeps the two of you dancing very compactly.

[Ghost]

Just a thought, but in freestyle could you fudge this by adding a comb after the return and then go into closed position from there?

Be Well,
Christopher

[Minnie M]

Is this the move I sometimes elbow my partner in the face :sick:

[under par]

Is this the move I sometimes elbow my partner in the face :sick:

Or in some cases ...... partners stomach:whistle:

[Lory]

Is this the move I sometimes elbow my partner in the face :sick:
I think this might be the move where I sometimes get my arm trapped, if i'm not expecting it :confused:

[Minnie M]

I think this might be the move where I sometimes get my arm trapped, if i'm not expecting it :confused:
yep ..... that too :blush:

[MartinHarper]

I am sure it's my leading at fault

Nah, it's mostly a follower thing. In classes where this kinda thing gets taught, the followers are much more amenable to it. Otherwise they tend to run away from me because they think we should be in open position after a return, or they don't have their spare arm out enough. That said, as DavidB says, I find that an early hand on the lady's back helps. Less elegantly, so does crouching down.

[spindr]

The main problem is that MJ doesn't encourage a real closed hold -- none of the basic moves have a "real" dancehold.

Apart from that its mostly the followers fault -- they should be keeping their arms up and in front of their body, so that there is at least a gap of sorts -- so that the leader can get to a closed hold.

If the guy does end up in a closed hold, but the lady's hand/arm isn't in the correct position then it is the follower's responsibility to correct this -- the leader has literally got their hands occupied. Hence, the follower should bring the hand/arm *extended vertically straight up* (forearm vertical, back of the hand against the face, with the thumb pointing forwards -- this keeps the elbow pointing at the ground) and place it over the leaders arm in the correct position. Note: the follower shouldn't be lifting their elbow -- as this is likely to hit the leader. Of course, since none of the basic MJ moves has a dancehold, it's unlikely that a normal MJ course will teach this.

SpinDr

[mikeyr]

I do a lot of closed moves mainly cos of my latin influences, so I also find
the best way into a closed hold is also from a travelling return.

As said previously when the lady goes past with her back to me, I put my right hand on her back in the middle, this acts as both the initial signal but also to stop the lady moving too far away.

From here I iniate a 1 1/4 turn on the lady whilst moving my right hand up high to rest on her shoulder blade,this has the desired effect of bringing her left arm out of the way and up onto my shoulder plus it generally gives both partners ample time to be in position and balanced ready to continue the dance.

Caveat: The only times I have found this not to work is with inexperienced followers where the signal from the right hand is not picked up quickly enough.

Hope this helps.

[Sheepman]

I find that an early hand on the lady's back helps. Less elegantly, so does crouching down. Many ladies, even experienced dancers, do not recognise the hand on the back as a signal to raise the arm, but crouching down should work in this case, Nigel & Nina used to teach this, but I don't know if they still do.

Greg

[Gadget]

In addition to what everyone else has said, I find that stepping a quarter turn round with the follower when collecting them smooths it out quite well.

The other alternative if they turn too far and you miss the collect into a close hold (normally because they spin faster than you thought) is to carry on the momentum and stop them in a close basket/hug position, then it's dead easy to go into the normal close hold.

(...and there are not many moves I can't get into a close move from :devil::D )

[Ghost]

Less elegantly, so does crouching down.
As quite a few people are recommending this - any elegant ways of doing it this way? I was thinking along the lines of shooting one leg out to the side / back kinda tango style?

Be Well,
Christopher