A question of which class needs the best teacher

[Martin]

Something that I have been thinking of for a long time...

Which class is more important, Beginner, beginner progression/consolidation/towards freestyle/revision or intermediate. For the sake of debate, please do not say they are all equally important... :flower:

For some time, the general rule is that teachers start at beginner progression/consolidation/towards freestyle/revision, then teach beginner (from the stage) , the when they have proved themselves, teach intermediate (from the stage).

This means, that whilst some beginner progression/consolidation/towards freestyle/revision teachers are GREAT:grin: , some others have a lot to learn about teaching.

If you had 3 teachers for the night - and they were graded 1 to 3 as to their ability to teach well (1 being the highest)...

Which class would you have them teach?

Let's say they are all good dancers - same level - to keep the discussion to simply teaching skills.

I would like to put forward the case that "new" teachers should start teaching intermediate (as, if the moves are good, the explaination is less critical, as intermediate dancers will pick the moves up with average explaination better than the beginners)

They should then progress to beginner [on stage], then to a beginner progression/consolidation/towards freestyle/revision class, where the nature of the smaller class means more teaching skills are required to benefit the dancers of the future (as it can sometimes almost be like a mini workshop, with those, oh so valuable 'new' clients).

I know this goes against the "accepted" norm, I am of the opinion that a beginner progression/consolidation/towards freestyle/revision class that is not taught well (and let's be honest, as it is the training ground for potential teachers, some go better than others - and I have sat in on, and helped out, on many :hug: ) is worse than not having the class.

So putting to one side, dance experience and knowlege of moves - let's say this is equal. On pure teaching skills, where would you put your 3 teachers, and why?

[El Salsero Gringo]

If you had 3 teachers for the night - and they were graded 1 to 3 as to their ability to teach well (1 being the highest)...

{snip}

On pure teaching skills, where would you put your 3 teachers, and why?I'd rather beg the question by pointing out that teachers have individual aptitiudes for teaching different levels and styles of class - not to mention different pupils having differing needs even with the same class. A 'better' teacher for one person, at one level might be of less benefit to the person in the next row in the same class.

And so I'd rotate all three teachers over time. So they all get/give the benefit of their differing experiences - which cannot ever be taken to be 'equal'.

[Ghost]

And so I'd rotate all three teachers over time. So they all get/give the benefit of their differing experiences - which cannot ever be taken to be 'equal'.
:yeah:

But allowing the original concept for the sake of simplicity -

I'd put the Best teacher in the revision class
Worst in the beginers class
Middle in the Intermediates class.

Beginners class is kinda done by rote and there's only 19 moves to know well.
Intermediates needs more care because of the potential for harm and thre's much more moves to be able to keep straight in your mind (is it the women's left or right arm up?)
Beginner refresher is where things tend to get sorted out and lays the foundation for the rest of your Cerocing - you want a skilled teacher to be able to recognise flaws and correct them in a way that is positive.

Take care,
Christopher

[Gadget]

I'd put the Best teacher in the revision class
Worst in the beginers class
Middle in the Intermediates class.
:yeah:
for roughly the same reasons, but this also assumes that none of them learn and iimprove - I think that the teacher of the beginners classes will also learn more than the others and that the beginners and intermediate teachers may swap roles more often.

[Minnie M]

I think the best teacher should be in the beginners' class for two reasons, one because the faster they learn, the more likely they will stay and secondly because they will be so pleased with their performance they will encourage others.

Martin and I were both taught IMO by the best "Beginner" teacher in the country. (He also taught Mikey, Tiggtours and Andy McGregor) ...........

[ads]

I think that the beginner teacher should be your best because if they are the worst the students may not even make it to the revision class.

[jezzyjj]

If you have the best teacher teach the beginners the basic aspects of the dance correctly, then they will need less teaching later on as they'll just be adding detail/moves to a good foundation. It is much harder to get people to unlearn bad habits acquired through poor teaching, than it is to simply improve a good core dancer.
It always annoyed me with some teachers in martial arts who would fob off the beginners with a lower grade [who was still learning themselves] rather than lower themselves to teach basic technique

I also think 'beginners' moves should be called basic moves as it is a better description and less pejorative. More emphasis and time should be placed on basic moves and I think the Ceroc X category at the champs was a damn good idea as I believe you were only allowed to dance 'beginner' moves. I wonder how it went down? Though I think some people got disqualified in final, but not doing a non-basic move by accident can be difficult in the heat of a competition.

[Martin]

If you have the best teacher teach the beginners the basic aspects of the dance correctly, then they will need less teaching later on as they'll just be adding detail/moves to a good foundation. It is much harder to get people to unlearn bad habits acquired through poor teaching, than it is to simply improve a good core dancer.
It always annoyed me with some teachers in martial arts who would fob off the beginners with a lower grade [who was still learning themselves] rather than lower themselves to teach basic technique

Very well put - now THAT was what I was trying to say... :respect:

(I was very fortunate, as Minnie M says, we had the benefit of a very good "basic moves" teacher)

[jezzyjj]

When it comes to how not to teach beginners basics, some dances give every move a distinct name as opposed to simply describing them as slight variations of each other. Which is all many of them are. This is counterproductive and very confusing to beginners.
Many moves are simply left, right or two handed versions of each other. But instead of teaching 'Do that move we've just done but this time the man uses left instead of right hand' the teacher starts from scratch as if the other move never existed and gives it a completely different and unrelated name, even though the only thing that's changed is the man started with the other hand. Building on top of what people already know is the basics of good teaching. Ignoring previously acquired knowledge is one reason why the standard of MJ is not what it could be.
A friend and I deconstructed the dance many years ago and decided to jettison much of convential thinking/practice and what a improvement it made to our dancing. Also once you think about the dance in terms of variations it helps one to explore new moves more easily as you can try out every variation on a move. I think with something as simply spinning your partner, there are something like 40 or 50 variations. I forget now. I think that may also include using returns some of the time.
The other very important aspect of variation based teaching is that when someone makes a 'mistake' as long as they are in time and haven't hurt their partner it is simply a different move. Which is a soooo much better for people's confidence when trying out freestyle.