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ducasi
25th-April-2006, 03:52 PM
Based on the interest in pole dancing at a few recent events, I though some people might be interested in reading this article on the BBC web site...

Are pole-dancing classes about exercise or exploitation? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4939752.stm)

Ghost
25th-April-2006, 04:01 PM
Based on the interest in pole dancing at a few recent events, I though some people might be interested in reading this article on the BBC web site...

Are pole-dancing classes about exercise or exploitation? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4939752.stm)

Love this quote
"It's exercise, is it? So you'll all be wearing trainers then?"
Jill Arscott, Brighton

Oh and "Christopher from Oxford" isn't me.

But I have been wondering for a while now - Ceroc London's running pole dancing classes and not only are the fully booked, there was a waiting list last time I checked the workshops diary.

Kinda curious as to whether any Fourmites are participating and their views.

Also curious if guys can take part if it is just about dance / exercise?

Be well,
Christopher

Donna
25th-April-2006, 04:07 PM
Based on the interest in pole dancing at a few recent events, I though some people might be interested in reading this article on the BBC web site...

Are pole-dancing classes about exercise or exploitation? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4939752.stm)

I definately think it is a good way of keeping fit, and it is the 'IN' thing now, but personally I wouldn't do it to keep fit.. I'd rather just stick to the normal way of dancing - MJ :D If I really want to do that as a way of keeping fit, then I'd set a pole up at home, but the fact they are doing this in public indicates that it is for pornographic purposes only.

Ok so it may keep them fit, but that's just an excuse they use. If they really want to keep fit, why not pop down to the gym like everybody else.. I'm sure you get more out of the gym than you do swinging around a pole!

If they want to expose themselves in a such a way, then that is up to them. I have nothing against it as I believe people have a choice. I believe the majority of women who enjoy doing this are those who thrive attention and it boosts their self esteem and makes them feel sexy. However I think it's dangerous and can lead to not just a bad reputation, but being attacked outside a night club (raped)

ToeTrampler
25th-April-2006, 04:07 PM
Explotation as far as the women are concerned; but since it does increase my heart rate, I'd have to say it's also exercise :o

TiggsTours
25th-April-2006, 04:15 PM
Well, I did the class at Storm, so I guess that was public, and loved it!

Its a superb way of keeping fit, the moves took so much physical strength that I thought I'd have to go down the gym to get into shape just to start classes! Also, for someone like me who finds going to the gym unbearably dull, it was also a far more entertaining way of getting fit.

It is necessary to not wear too many clothes, as alot of the moves will only work when bare flesh is in contact with the pole, but the girl teaching us was wearing very much sporting attire, it wasn't sexy stuff at all, and she wasn't in stillettoes either.

Alot of the fitness type classes (which I believe are the ones Ceroc are using, as I'm sure they're using the same teacher) are not at all about exploitation of women, its all about fitness, building confidence in your own body, movement, expression and good clean fun.

That said, when its done in a club by a girl wearing just her underwear and stillettoes, in front of a room full of drooling men, yes, that's exploitation, but that is not the way Ceroc are doing things!

People shouldn't knock it until they've tried it.

Tazmanian Devil
25th-April-2006, 04:32 PM
Personally I really enjoyed the pole dancing class at Storm twas a great laugh and very interesting!!

It's amazing how these ladies make their bodys look longer :clap:

Our teacher wore boxing boots which at first seemed a little weird as we were told we should wear heals when booking up for the class. but she soon put us right!!

Would definately do it again :clap: :clap:

Personally don't think it's exploitation, just good exercise and if certain women decide to do it as a prefession thats their business (loadsa money to be earned there)

Princess Fi
25th-April-2006, 04:50 PM
It does sound like a good way to strengthen your body in my opinion, and more fun that doing something like step or a thigh bums and tums class.

But all this talk of exploitation makes me wonder - I mean, in my head at least (and I'm sure some people will disagree with me here) isn't it only really exploitation when an individual doesn't want to do the act in question? I mean the participants to a pole dancing exercise class are hardly unwilling, and at the end of the day its their decision as to how they want to exercise!

I'm sure people will disagree with that though, and as such, I'm going to promptly go hide under my desk! :na:

Chef
25th-April-2006, 05:03 PM
As far as I can work out

If it increases your strength, stamina, or suppleness then it is excercise.

If you are forced to work against your will then it is exploitation.

I have not yet heard of anyone being forced to go to a pole dancing lesson against their will so I guess it isn't exploitation.

Seems like excercise to me. I have always found that the best forms of excercise are ones that you enjoy doing so it doesn't seem like a self pennance for being fat, old, unfit, etc. If someone finds that pole dancing lessons are their way of having fun (and getting excercise ant the same time) then who is anyone to tell them no?

Rhythm King
25th-April-2006, 05:10 PM
I have a friend who goes to these classes on a weekly basis. She says it's much more fun than going to pump iron at a gym. Also, she's doing a female-only class at a dance studio, not performing in front of people in a lap-dancing club, so the exploitation bit doesn't really come into it.

TheTramp
25th-April-2006, 05:18 PM
That said, when its done in a club by a girl wearing just her underwear and stillettoes, in front of a room full of drooling men, yes, that's exploitation, but that is not the way Ceroc are doing things!
Just out of interest, who is exploiting who here?? :flower:

Donna
25th-April-2006, 05:20 PM
Personally I really enjoyed the pole dancing class at Storm twas a great laugh and very interesting!!

Awww there was pole dancing at Storm????? DAMN!!! Would love to have given that a go for a laugh. actually Taz, I remember some pictures of you on the forum giving it a try. wonder if they'll have any at Ceroc Breeze??? I hope so.....

Magic Hans
25th-April-2006, 05:33 PM
From the article ...



She says women are being told that "correct exercise" is something that has its roots in prostitution.

Pole dancing is perpetuating a culture of prostitution. It's not actually prostitution because they're in a class but it's the codes of prostitution and practice that they are engaged in.


:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

What the *%#@@*&&*$$ is this women going on about!!!!

I despair some times! I wonder (as Tiggs says) if she's been within 10 yards of a pole with an open mind. Call me presumptive, but I have my doubts!!

If it's fun ... do it. Exhibitionists can feel free to perform for others ... most people won't, at a guess!! [Let's face it, if it wasn't pole dancing, exhibitionists would find somethings else for attention, and such feminists ... or whichever extremists, would rant in the same way!]

Call me simple minded .... but the argument against is simply a load of bull!!

[Ruffled any feathers???? :blush: Hope so!!!! :D ]

ducasi
25th-April-2006, 05:36 PM
Princess Fi, Chef and others saying these classes are not exploitation....

The exploitation argument isn't that the women doing the lessons are being exploited, but that by running these classes for folks just doing it for the exercise and a bit of fun, it makes pole dancing more acceptable in our culture, and thus makes pole dancing as entertainment more acceptable.

And this is where they say women are being exploited.

Tazmanian Devil
25th-April-2006, 05:36 PM
Awww there was pole dancing at Storm????? DAMN!!! Would love to have given that a go for a laugh. actually Taz, I remember some pictures of you on the forum giving it a try. wonder if they'll have any at Ceroc Breeze??? I hope so.....
Me too hun, it's great fun :clap: :clap:

Princess Fi
25th-April-2006, 05:38 PM
Call me simple minded .... but the argument against is simply a load of bull!!



:yeah:

Come on - if you were to follow through the argument of any form of exercise which is in any way promoting looking sexy, then you would eliminate pretty much all forms of dance!

(At least all the fun ones :wink: )

Donna
25th-April-2006, 05:50 PM
Me too hun, it's great fun :clap: :clap:


You can teach me a few moves that you learnt at Storm. The only pole I used to swing on was the washing line pole at the top of the garden.... it came right out the ground.. yeah ouch! :tears: Urrr I must point out this was years ago. ahem.

wicked blue
25th-April-2006, 06:22 PM
Why go to a class when you can do it at home!! A friend of mine has one in their bedroom!! They've told their family that its to hold up the ceiling!!!!!!:whistle:

Donna
25th-April-2006, 06:39 PM
Why go to a class when you can do it at home!! A friend of mine has one in their bedroom!! They've told their family that its to hold up the ceiling!!!!!!:whistle:



:rofl:

Think I should keep practicing on the garden pole for now then!!!! :rofl:

Spin dryer
26th-April-2006, 12:06 AM
Just out of interest, who is exploiting who here?? :flower:

Absolutely. If there is any exploitation, then it's by the women concerned of the sad, inadequate men who are unable to relate to women normally and who pay substantial sums for some mild voyeurism.

TiggsTours
26th-April-2006, 09:37 AM
Just out of interest, who is exploiting who here?? :flower:
That all depends, I am perfectly open to the idea that alot of the girls that do this work know exactly what they're doing, they get paid alot of money (some of them), they are completely protected (some of them), and they are indeed exploiting the drooling men. However, there are also alot of occassions where the girls are being forced into doing it, and alot more besides, and they are the ones being exploited.

MartinHarper
26th-April-2006, 10:03 AM
I guess it's slightly odd to take part in a hobby that has its roots in paid sex, but no more odd than a hobby like paintballing, which has its roots in death and war. Some want to play at being soldiers, some want to play at being something else. Still, I'm guessing that sex is better exercise than pole dancing.


Also curious if guys can take part if it is just about dance / exercise?

Not at Storm.

TheTramp
26th-April-2006, 10:17 AM
However, there are also alot of occassions where the girls are being forced into doing it, and alot more besides, and they are the ones being exploited.

You have proof of this statement of course.... :rolleyes:

TiggsTours
26th-April-2006, 10:24 AM
Still, I'm guessing that sex is better exercise than pole dancing.I don't know about that, I've never tried hanging upside down using nothing but my stomach, thigh & calf muscles whilst having sex! Perhaps I should try it! :wink: :rofl:

Freya
26th-April-2006, 12:53 PM
That all depends, I am perfectly open to the idea that alot of the girls that do this work know exactly what they're doing, they get paid alot of money (some of them), they are completely protected (some of them), and they are indeed exploiting the drooling men. However, there are also alot of occassions where the girls are being forced into doing it, and alot more besides, and they are the ones being exploited.
:yeah: although I agree with what your sdaying here and that actually pole dancing for a living can be exploitive was the article not discussing the exploitation of Classes? Girls that go to classes have Choosen to do so! They have paid to do this! Obviously there will be people who disagree! IT is the same in all areas that use sexual desire! Paintings, Sculpture, ballet (Especially modern!) Photography!

Come on - if you were to follow through the argument of any form of exercise which is in any way promoting looking sexy, then you would eliminate pretty much all forms of dance!

(At least all the fun ones )
You would indeed! Anyone danced with gadget lately :Wink:!!!!
Dancing has always had RTomantic and sexual uses! Many forms were banned due to being too Risque which are now acceptable! Also Dancing was the one time when it was acceptable to touch the opposite sex!!!

I would also just say that feminists will find anything to ague about! Next thing we know cooking a romatic meal will be exploitation!!! Bah!!!!!

Vicky
26th-April-2006, 01:33 PM
i think it is a form of exercise, cause if we say it's expoliting then aren't more dances like the argentinean tango doing the same since that originated from prostitues dance with clients

ducasi
26th-April-2006, 02:25 PM
i think it is a form of exercise, cause if we say it's expoliting then aren't more dances like the argentinean tango doing the same since that originated from prostitues dance with clients
I agree with you Vicky. Our culture has been influenced by many things we might not like, but over time we can take the positives, leave the negatives, and enrich our lives...

Vicky
26th-April-2006, 04:55 PM
I agree with you Vicky. Our culture has been influenced by many things we might not like, but over time we can take the positives, leave the negatives, and enrich our lives...

thanks it's good to get different points to things too! :respect: all these dances can be beautiful depends on what context they are used!:nice:

:cheers: :clap:

Gojive
26th-April-2006, 05:45 PM
I don't know about that, I've never tried hanging upside down using nothing but my stomach, thigh & calf muscles whilst having sex! Perhaps I should try it! :wink: :rofl:

I've tried it!...but it didn't work - I didn't have the support you see :what: . Next time, I'll try and make sure there's at least two of us! :D

TiggsTours
27th-April-2006, 10:08 AM
:yeah: although I agree with what your sdaying here and that actually pole dancing for a living can be exploitive was the article not discussing the exploitation of Classes?No, the thread asks "Pole dancing – exercise or exploitation?", it doesn't mention classes at all.
Girls that go to classes have Choosen to do so! They have paid to do this!Couldn't agree more, as I have already made clear in my earlier postings. I'm just disappointed that I hadn't realised classes had already started booking, and so I've missed out. I have seen other places where classes are taught on a far more seedy, dancing in clubs, type of way, and not at all from a purely personal and fitness point of view like the ones the teacher who is teaching for Ceroc is doing. It is only her style of teaching this that appeals to me. I wouldn't say that any situation where people are paying for the class is exploitation, just that some styles of class don't appeal to me personally.

ducasi
27th-April-2006, 12:17 PM
No, the thread asks "Pole dancing – exercise or exploitation?", it doesn't mention classes at all. That's the title of the thread, sure... But in my first post I referenced an article on the BBC web site about pole-dancing classes, and asked "Are pole-dancing classes about exercise or exploitation?"

Jazz_Shoes (Ash)
27th-April-2006, 12:41 PM
I'd give it a go.

Dorothy
28th-April-2006, 09:44 AM
I wouldn't, personally.
:eek:

It's sexy and there are probably some nice moves. Don't men do it too (strippers etc)? Isn't that exploitation?

ducasi
28th-April-2006, 10:09 AM
It's the pole I feel sorry for... Did anyone ask it?

Rhythm King
28th-April-2006, 10:50 AM
It's the pole I feel sorry for... Did anyone ask it?
Write it a czech, it'll be fine

Ghost
28th-April-2006, 11:57 AM
There's a saying "Even an icon of the Madonna can be used for pornography". In a lot of oriental martial arts films, it's not unusual for both men and women to be doing acrobatics up and down poles (House of the Flying Daggers has a great example of this in the bamboo forest).

I'm curious what the arguement against men being able to partake at Storm was? I can do some acrobatics. I can certainly handle the handstand against a pole in the article Ducasi links to.

Men wishing to learn how to do pole dancing (apparently with fire!) can look here (http://www.lilmynx.com/videos.php)

Ultimately I think it depends where you come from. I've never really gone with the arguement that sex is inherently evil (competing is obviously another matter entirely :devil: ). If someone wants to dance on a pole and / or look sexy, then good luck to them.

My main concern on this subject has actually been avoided by the question, but I'll put it forward purely as food for thought. There was a documentary on Channel 5 (where else :rolleyes: ) on the porn industry in america and they interviewed a lot of the men and women involved. What came across repeatedly was that although they had chosen to do this work, a lot of them were severely damaged / traumatised from their youth - raped by parents etc. So I have concerns about the actual pole-dancing industry. Although I agree with Martin's analogy of paintball and warfare, a similar arguement can be made for the desensitisation of violence. There is concern that pole-dancing classes could lead to de-sensitisation of actual pole dancing. I'm still somewhat on the fence as to whether this arguement is reasonable however :confused:

ESG, Barry - any thoughts? :cheers:

Take care,
Christopher