Polite corrections

[DianaS]

I was dancing with one of my favourite dancers (swoon) when he stopped to explain that I was putting an extra step in. He took me through the move a few times and then led me through the sequence that he was trying to initiate..

Next time we danced I remembered, he smiled, and I walked on air.

I still do.


It's the gentleness of his approach that so touches me. Some times I feel cross with a guy who is doing some thing that I know is wrong, and that gentle smile and gentle correction is what I need to offer..

I would really like to learn how to offer this, cas I can be a real stroppy lady and very hard to please :flower:

Gentlemen and ladies your suggestions please

[Clive Long]

I was dancing with one of my favourite dancers (swoon) when he stopped to explain that I was putting an extra step in. He took me through the move a few times and then led me through the sequence that he was trying to initiate..

Next time we danced I remembered, he smiled, and I walked on air.

I still do.

Good stuff.

Supportive, constructive feedback on dance so hard to offer, so hard to accept.

All I can say is only feedback if asked OR the other person is hurting you.

Clive

[Ghost]

Good stuff.

Supportive, constructive feedback on dance so hard to offer, so hard to accept.

All I can say is only feedback if asked OR the other person is hurting you.

Clive
:yeah:
and

Paladin's gambit. Ask people you know well, before anything's happened if they would like to know in the future if they do anything wrong (need a better word than "wrong" though) and if so how. I have a friend who's perfectly happy mispronouncing words he's read, and so I'm happy to let him continue.

Good luck,
Christopher

[DianaS]

I'm very happy to receive polite corrections...so don't wait for me to ask!

[Little Em]

I dont see anything wrong with polite corrections... infact i promote this sometimes in my classes!! :eek:

encourage the class to help the partner they are with, and tell each other if they need more/less of something.
I will then do this on stage too with my demo to show the class how it can be done in a polite way and that no one needs to be offended by any comments, if it is said in a good way, and it then makes the dance more enjoyable for both partners? where is the harm?

:nice:

[Baruch]

I positively welcome constructive criticism from those who know what they're talking about. It can be quite funny though when being corrected by someone who's only been dancing a few weeks (especially when they're backleading and then wondering why the move went wrong!).

[ElaineB]

I am more than happy to be 'shown a better way' (instead of the word wrong, perhaps? :D ), because I am always seeking to improve.

Having said that though, you just know when someone is better than you and if these words of 'encouragement' are from someone who cannot hold the beat, lead or stomps, (and sometimes all three!) then I will just ignore them.

Elaine

[Gus]

I positively welcome constructive criticism from those who know what they're talking about. Aye ... but my experienece has been that a fair proportion of the more experienced dancers who could benefit from a little advice are the ones less likely to take it.:(

[Rebecca]

Gentlemen and ladies your suggestions please

The only thing I would say if freestyling is wait until after the track has finished! I'm as open as a sensitive narcissist can be to criticism (and love to learn), but start explaining something in the middle of a great piece of music and I get really frustrated - dance now, dissect later :flower:

[Alice]

I positively welcome constructive criticism from those who know what they're talking about. It can be quite funny though when being corrected by someone who's only been dancing a few weeks (especially when they're backleading and then wondering why the move went wrong!).
Perhaps yes, but in that case it might help to remember that a new beginner is far more likely to take everything very literally and get panicky if a move doesn't go EXACTLY as expected. Bear in mind, they don't have anything to go on except that night's dancing, unlike someone else who will have a better idea of what matters and what doesn't.

If you're being corrected by a beginner, it might help to gently explain to them that you know what you're doing, and reassure them that a slight variation to what is being taught isn't necessarily 'wrong'. Then gently remind them to stop backleading too:whistle:

I think a lot of backleading (in class especially) happens when a girl picks up the move relatively quickly, and has worked out what she needs to do for it, but hasn't yet learnt to wait until she is led into it. That or she's used to dancing with guys who haven't a clue and she's trying to lead them through it:wink: She shouldn't be backleading at all, agreed, but it's not always so easy to wait...

[Trish]

The only thing I would say if freestyling is wait until after the track has finished! I'm as open as a sensitive narcissist can be to criticism (and love to learn), but start explaining something in the middle of a great piece of music and I get really frustrated - dance now, dissect later :flower:

Yes I agree with you there Becks, it's really annoying when someone (who is a good dancer especially) starts giving you a lesson instead of dancing with you. By all means comment on it at the time, but give the demostration afterwards! I presume from the fact that I often get asked to help people that I must be reasonably ok at this. Either that or some people just like bluntness!!!

[Frankie_4711]

Unless it was painful/dangerous etc I probably wouldn't correct an experienced dancer unless I knew them well. I try to correct beginners but pick on maybe one thing per dance rather than 'you're doing this, that and the other wrong' and I always start with 'do you mind if I give you some advice ... ?' rather than 'that's wrong - do it like this'.

I personally, although open to criticism and willing and eager to learn, sometimes feel that doing it in the middle of the dancefloor is not the best situation, if it's something quite complicated, and prefer to be taken to one side afterwards to be shown. If it's just a 'quick fix' there and then is fine.

Something one, maybe two, of my teachers has told us is that the women should not try to help the men if they're leading a move wrongly - he's leading, let him get on with it whether it's wrong or right. I don't like this approach for several reasons - a) he may not know it's wrong and will never learn it correctly if no-one tells him; b) he may be wanting help but embarrassed to ask for it; c) it can be extremely confusing as a follower if he is inadvertantly signalling or leading something he has no intention of doing. Or am I the one that's wrong on this?

[Frankie_4711]

Sorry - should have said above - paragraph 1 - wouldn't correct in freestyle - will happily correct during a class

[tomboh]

The only thing I would say if freestyling is wait until after the track has finished!

Definitely. You don't want to break the flow of the dance, but it helps if both of you recognise that something went wrong at the time so you can stash the mistake away short term memory. At least, I've improved how I lead moves by doing them slightly wrong, getting an immediate cue, then analysing the move and the mistake in detail afterwards. Both for my mistakes and the mistakes of my partner.


If you're being corrected by a beginner, it might help to gently explain to them that you know what you're doing, and reassure them that a slight variation to what is being taught isn't necessarily 'wrong'.

If I don't feel too grumpy, I try to find the person during freestyle and ask to dance with them, throwing the move into the routine unpredictably, maybe using a few different variants to reduce the risk of backleading. This doesn't always work, but sometimes followers get more of a feel for responding to the lead instead of picking up on slight cues then making assumptions.

[Feelingpink]

I mainly like receiving feedback from people who I respect. And those I respect are often the ones who ask if I would like feedback before giving it.

[Baruch]

It can be quite funny though when being corrected by someone who's only been dancing a few weeks (especially when they're backleading and then wondering why the move went wrong!).
Having though about this, I've realised that I have to remind intermediates not to back-lead much more often than beginners. Maybe it's because I'm more forgiving if a beginner does it -- I know I don't have much patience with constant backleaders when they've moved up to intermediates though.

[Freya]

Having though about this, I've realised that I have to remind intermediates not to back-lead much more often than beginners. Maybe it's because I'm more forgiving if a beginner does it -- I know I don't have much patience with constant backleaders when they've moved up to intermediates though.

I had a slight problem with back leading and anticipating moves rather than waiting to be lead after I had been dancing for a couple of months!!! I found that as I started to recognise moves and was managing more of the intermediate moves my ability to follow deteriorated!!! I found it especially difficult after dancing with beginners and then with a more experienced dancer. To get over this I started to close my eyes for the first couple of moves to get into the feel of the person's lead rather than the move!!! Not wise to do for too long on a crowded floor but if i'm really strugling!!!!

This may be the reason why you have less patience with Intermediates because they aren't following as well as the beginners although they should have a wider repetoir!

I hope I'm not backleading and anticipating too much anymore!

[drathzel]

I'm very happy to receive polite corrections...so don't wait for me to ask!
:yeah: i am quite happy to be corrected provided its not in a "***, your doing it wrong" tone of voice:flower:

[Ghost]

:yeah: i am quite happy to be corrected provided its not in a "***, your doing it wrong" tone of voice:flower:
You make mistakes???????????:confused:

Nah, must be the lead's fault :wink:

Seriously though. I led a basket carress on a lady on Sat and it didn't quite work. She asked what she'd done wrong. I replied "Nothing, I just didn't lead it properly". I figured out how to make the lead clearer and led it fine on her a few dances later :clap: .
Take care
Christopher

[Phil]

[QUOTE=Ghost]You make mistakes???????????:confused:

Nah, must be the lead's fault :wink:



I learnt a long time ago that we don't make mistakes, we just have interesting variations.

And yes, it is the lead's fault if something goes wrong but that's because quite a lot of moves can be confused with others with a similar beginning.

I always apologise if the move goes wrong, and if the lady I'm dancing with is confused and asks what I was trying to do then I'll take some time out after the dance and explain what the move was I was trying to do.

[tsh]

:yeah: i am quite happy to be corrected provided its not in a "***, your doing it wrong" tone of voice:flower:
but I don't believe we've danced...

[Lory]

Last week, I was presented with a move that I didn't 'get' first time (we're talking WCS here) and I was so pleased and grateful, when the guy did it again, this time with a 'stronger/clearer' lead and then again and again, about 5 times, till I got it.:worthy: :hug:

I can't stand it when guys, do something I don't get but then penny half drops, I realise what I 'should' have done:really: :clap: and yet they don't give me another chance :( :tears:

As Rebecca's said, I hate the flow of the dance being stopped during freestyle but the way he helped me, didn't effect the flow at all! ;)

If the lady I'm dancing with is confused and asks what I was trying to do then I'll take some time out after the dance and explain what the move was I was trying to do.This is lovely too..
:cheers: :respect:

[robd]

This is a difficult area. Different people take criticism, constructive or otherwise, in different ways and what works for one may affront another. I take criticism badly from others (in life as well as dancing) though I am very harsh when assessing my abilities myself.

Personally, I very rarely offer feedback or criticism when things don't work. I try to tell people not to apologise too much, explain that things are generally the lead's fault and carry on. I don't try to teach moves to people - in my view, that's what classes and workshops are for and the simple fact that I can lead something with some people in freestyle doesn't make me qualified to teach it.

Funnily enough, backleading doesn't raise as much ire in me as it seems to for some posters here. If it happens, it happens. Those people will not be near the top of my list of people to ask in future but there are much worse offences of the dancefloor. And all leads who think following is simple, give it a go one day. When I have tried it (with the honourable exception of Msfab's leading) I am all over the place and backleading like crazy. It ain't easy :sad:

Robert

[Little Em]

This is a difficult area. Different people take criticism, constructive or otherwise, in different ways and what works for one may affront another. I take criticism badly from others (in life as well as dancing) though I am very harsh when assessing my abilities myself.

Personally, I very rarely offer feedback or criticism when things don't work. I try to tell people not to apologise too much, explain that things are generally the lead's fault and carry on. I don't try to teach moves to people - in my view, that's what classes and workshops are for and the simple fact that I can lead something with some people in freestyle doesn't make me qualified to teach it.

Funnily enough, backleading doesn't raise as much ire in me as it seems to for some posters here. If it happens, it happens. Those people will not be near the top of my list of people to ask in future but there are much worse offences of the dancefloor. And all leads who think following is simple, give it a go one day. When I have tried it (with the honourable exception of Msfab's leading) I am all over the place and backleading like crazy. It ain't easy :sad:

Robert

:yeah:

I knew there was a sensible side somwhere in you! :devil:
:flower: E x

[Nick]

FWIW: The best time for ME to take criticism, is during the intermediate classes when we're learning moves. I usually find this helpful, especially if my leading is unclear, or I'm making a dog's breakfast of it.

Of course, comment depends on how it's done. Some people think they're better dancers than they actually are - probably most of us do, when I think about it - and take a superior attitude, and don't show respect; this usually moves them up my must avoid list.

On the dance floor, I don't think I tend to correct moves UNLESS it's with someone who seems interested in going over that night's moves, be they beginner or intermediate, and then I kind of do it by the dancing and repeating the move rather than by words.

I don't always succeed, cause sometimes I do get carried away, and have to remember we're all here to have FUN.

As for followers correcting on the dance floor, my take is this. We all have our different styles, and if a follower's style shows me how she likes to dance I'll try and adapt to that, or learn to. For example, some people like to dance more slowly, others seem to prefer more distant contact.

I find this non verbal a helpful and cool way for a follower to "correct" a leader, as she's perfectly entitled to show a leader how she wants to dance, and there doesn't have to be a negative criticism implied.

[Dreadful Scathe]

I don't see the point of "correcting" anyone during a freestyle dance, I'd rather just put it down as a unique variation that didnt work so well and not do it again :) If it doesnt work its my fault as the leader :)

[Debster]

I'm happy to go with anyone's move variations... but I hate someone trying to teach me a move during freestyle. Especially when I haven't asked to learn what ever it was that they just could not lead me through. Ditch it. Move on.

And I can't stand them to be out of time, so I will purposefully not follow the timing they use if they are seriously out while still trying to execute the move they are leading. But I don't often say anything about it... is that as bad as impolitely correcting someone?

[Saxylady]

And I can't stand them to be out of time, so I will purposefully not follow the timing they use if they are seriously out while still trying to execute the move they are leading. But I don't often say anything about it... is that as bad as impolitely correcting someone?

I'm afraid I'm inclined to do likewise, not consciously, it just feels unbearably wrong to dance out of time. But I don't think resistance or (non-verbal) correction helps, or makes any difference, and I usually just try to relax and go with it as best I can.

I once had a man deliberately do an exaggerated arm-jive with me saying 'There you are, can you feel the beat now??' which I found perfectly humiliating. Never mind who was at fault in that situation, we can all get out of synch with our partners, especially if the track suddenly has an interesting drum solo or we find we're responding to a different part of the rhythm. All you can to is keep going and hope to find harmony at some point.

[Mich Mosh]

I don't see the point of "correcting" anyone during a freestyle dance, I'd rather just put it down as a unique variation that didnt work so well and not do it again :) If it doesnt work its my fault as the leader :)
:clap: :clap: And I always take that approach...so if I fluff it up whoever is at fault ( usually it's because the interpretation of moves is different from dancer to dancer / new move sequence) I always say.....while still dancing...."please can we do that move again". Then after a few moves the sequence is usually repeated.

I never realised this could be annoying the lead !!!! I actually thought I was being polite at the same time as learning!!:rolleyes:
Advice please :(

[Twirly]

Oh dear, seems I’m guilty of back-leading, although just in the class (intermediate or beginners, and only when the guy clearly hasn’t got the move). In beginners I know that slowing things down and just walking a new guy through a move so he can feel the “shape” of it has been appreciated, particularly when there are lots of new women in the class who are just as clueless as he is!

I only realised a few weeks ago that I was doing this a lot in the intermediates and that it was probably very annoying to the lead, so I try not to do it now. Is this a stage intermediate women go through I wonder? But it is very frustrating if I’ve got the move sussed (maybe because I’ve been at the front, or had the benefit of dancing with several guys who have got it right) and the person that is trying to lead me clearly hasn’t. I often find that after I’ve been through a couple of those, even if I did have the move, I then lose it! And it sometimes seems as though every man I do the move with (in class) does it differently … confusing! :sick:

As for being corrected – more than happy anytime, so long as it’s been done politely. If someone leads me in a move in freestyle I’m not familiar with that I’m obviously not getting, I’ve really liked it when he’s just slowed it right down (but not stopped) and shown me how it’s done. I usually get it pretty quickly like that and then we’re both happy. :nice:

[Mich Mosh]

[QUOTE=Twirly]Oh dear, seems I’m guilty of back-leading, although just in the class (intermediate or beginners, and only when the guy clearly hasn’t got the move). In beginners I know that slowing things down and just walking a new guy through a move so he can feel the “shape” of it has been appreciated, particularly when there are lots of new women in the class who are just as clueless as he is!

I only realised a few weeks ago that I was doing this a lot in the intermediates and that it was probably very annoying to the lead, so I try not to do it now. Is this a stage intermediate women go through I wonder? But it is very frustrating if I’ve got the move sussed (maybe because I’ve been at the front, or had the benefit of dancing with several guys who have got it right) and the person that is trying to lead me clearly hasn’t. I often find that after I’ve been through a couple of those, even if I did have the move, I then lose it! And it sometimes seems as though every man I do the move with (in class) does it differently … confusing! :sick:

:grin: I was in an intermediate class on Tuesday and I was doing fine. The last person who led me tripped over twice when doing that forward backward step....I just politely said your missing out half a beat where the comb ends and stepping forward too quick. Next time it was perfect!!

As it was the last lead in the class we went straight into freestyle - he practised the move and each time had no probs.................Felt proud of myself for getting the advice right !!!:cheers: It's the one's who think they know it all that are annoying.:flower:

[Princess Fi]

This is a difficult area. Different people take criticism, constructive or otherwise, in different ways and what works for one may affront another.

:yeah:

There can be instances where you think you are being helpful but it comes across wrong to the person you are trying to help. I remember on my second week, I was dancing with a guy in freestyle who ended the dance, paused, and said "Do you want some feedback?".

He probably thought he was being really helpful but I was quite upset at being taken aside and given a long list of the things I was doing wrong when I was so 'young' in Ceroc terms.

I guess the relationship you have with the person and the setting you are feeding back in will also be factors as to whether it will be taken well. I mean there are dancers who I know and respect, that I wouldn't blink an eyelid getting constructive criticism from (I quite encourage it in fact... in moderation :wink: ), or if its in a class since we are all learning after all. But in freestyle its a bit of a grey area there :sick:

[Twirly]

:yeah:
He probably thought he was being really helpful but I was quite upset at being taken aside and given a long list of the things I was doing wrong when I was so 'young' in Ceroc terms.

That does sound very unpleasent - I probably wouldn't have come back. If he'd given you one or two suggestions maybe it would have been easier - but to be critiqued like that! And how much of it did he expect you to remember?

I often find myself peeling someone's thumb off my hand and think of lots of other things I could suggest to beginners, but I figure if they learn that one thing from me it will help - give them a barrage of things and none of it will stick.

[Jivingdan]

I think as long as you are positive to begin with it can help. If they have rhythm tell them that thats really good then point out what might help them enjoy the dance more i.e what they're doing wrong. In the end if they get better they will benefit and enjoy their dancing more.

[bigdjiver]

There are times when I get things wrong, and my partner tries to help, but I am just too much in a state of mental overload to be able to assimilate any advice, or even give a coherent explanation of why I am not reacting positively. Often I am getting one thing wrong because I am concentrating on getting something else right. Good advice, at the right moment, is always appreciated.

[frodo]

There are times when I get things wrong, and my partner tries to help, but I am just too much in a state of mental overload to be able to assimilate any advice, or even give a coherent explanation of why I am not reacting positively. Often I am getting one thing wrong because I am concentrating on getting something else right...:yeah:

Most frequently the thing I'd be concentrating on would be earlier in the sequence - the lady isn't always aware of the point at which it starts to go wrong.


I'd prefer to have the advice, even if only a small portion is useful.

So the difficulty is to sound appreciative and encourage future advice, when in actual fact I'm ignoring it at that immediate time.
Haven't worked out a good way to do this.

[foxylady]

I'm happy to go with anyone's move variations... but I hate someone trying to teach me a move during freestyle. Especially when I haven't asked to learn what ever it was that they just could not lead me through. Ditch it. Move on.

And I can't stand them to be out of time, so I will purposefully not follow the timing they use if they are seriously out while still trying to execute the move they are leading. But I don't often say anything about it... is that as bad as impolitely correcting someone?

:yeah:

and echoing SaxyLady, I had a man recently ask me twice whether I could go any faster. The first time I smiled sweetly and carried on following his lead as best I could, the second I felt I had to say that 'usually I tried to dance to the (speed of the) music' :mad: :angry:

[Mich Mosh]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :yeah:

I know exactly how you feel....it is so frustrating when someone tries to advise and they can't even keep in time to the music.

At Hyde I was dancing with a guy who had no rhythm was all bouncy and he said "Can you remember the class?" I sat out of the class as it included that move where you just lean back and drop towards the floor and back up again....as all the quality dancers were in Southport I wasn't doing that (however slowly) !!! ....anyway back to the story........I smiled sweetly and carried on dancing, half way through the routine I ended up just standing out for a few beats ...apologised and pretended to muck it up. The worst of it all was I could not say anything to the guy as he thought he was so good.......just because a man knows some tricky moves it does not give them the right to think they are fantastic marvelous dancers especially if they have no rhythm and not very good with the "signals" etc....but I just can't politely say anything!!:)