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View Full Version : Salsa classes v Ceroc/Jive classes



stewart38
12th-April-2006, 09:27 AM
Attended another Salsa class yesterday for the first time in EC3, Cornhill in the centre of London 2 mins from where I work so very handy. However once again I went away disappointed

You pay £8 for a lesson (I’m still very much beginner) It turns out its New York/LA style ? what ever that means

You don’t get to see the instructors feet/ legs as its too crowded (mainly due to room size not numbers (cira 75)

There are 4 different levels of instruction going on at the same time so there is noise cross over about 17 women and 5 men in the beginners with hopeless rotation

When the class finishes that’s it. You can stay but there is no follow up no 'Taxi' dancers. No one seem to pay a blind bit of interest in you . we were 2 newbie’s and a intermediate

Do places like this rely on constant turnover ??

In a nut shell most Salsa classes I’ve attended seem to be indifferent to the new punter is that fair comment ?

Msfab
12th-April-2006, 09:49 AM
Do places like this rely on constant turnover ??


Most non-dancers and friends that ive tried to get to go dancing immediately think 'Oh ive always wanted to give Salsa a go'. (Like thats the only dance around :rolleyes: ) Salsa classes advertise everywhere so I suppose people are more exposed to it than modern jive. Some people will go give it a go and then not bother, others will continue - Thats life!
Ive been to 3 different salsa class - Only one of them in Nottingham did not have an additional 'taxi' type class/time - And was THE WORST class of any type of class ive ever been to:mad:. The other 2 (Nottingham and Bisley) both had people to help anyone that needed it and a friendly bunch.
(But I still cant handle more than 1 hour of Salsa music)

BobbyA
12th-April-2006, 09:50 AM
I've noticed the same in most the Salsa classes I've been to. If you want to learn I think you've gotta really put yourself out there and make yourself known. Its one of the reasons I gave up salsa. Tho salsa is a good way to get those hips working :)

Oh and salsa music gets boring after about 2 songs too. (They all sound the same).

I also find people are quite clicky at salsa.

Its difficult to say whether all classes are like that. I'm sure they're not. I'm guessing ones in bars and crowded places are similar tho. There doesn't seem to be so much of a social element attach to Salsa either.

Through Ceroc/Leroc I've met a bunch of nice people and you get to know them after time. I'd been doing salsa for about 6 months and you get to know no-one. I went back a few weeks ago and I regogonised one of the persons from before, she was still in the begineers class. Its like she's been there for the entire year! (No will to progress).

TheTramp
12th-April-2006, 09:54 AM
(But I still cant handle more than 1 hour of Salsa music)

1 hour??? I can't handle more than about 1 song. Though, that's usually about 30 minutes :rolleyes:

TA Guy
12th-April-2006, 09:59 AM
Funnily enough I had more or less the same experience down here in Soton. Teaching was pretty unstructured and once class was done, you were left on your own to sink or swim. Very cliquey, far more so than modern jive. Halls tended to be too small with too much 'noise' going on. I gave it a go, three months, but in the end, I just thought I would be having more fun at a MJ night, so packed it in.
Has more in common with Aerobics classes than MJ classes.

timbp
12th-April-2006, 10:06 AM
When I went to salsa classes, it was just that -- classes. But the teachers also told us where to go to dance (ie, where they went to dance). The idea seemed to be at the classes you learn the dance, then you go to the clubs and dance.

Which from one point of view is fine, but doesn't work for me. I've always hated nightclubs -- the noise, the smoke, the crowds. and the salsa clubs were just like that. But at a standard nightclub, ask a girl to dance and you can just go stand on the dancefloor and occasionally change your weight while the girl does her stuff. At a salsa club, you also have to lead her, and be able to impress with some shines! And it's too noisy for me to have a conversation, so I don't meet/get to know people.

The biggest attraction to me when I tried ceroc was that the music was at a level where it was present but I could have a conversation. That immediately made the whole environment more social for me (even if for the first few classes I was concentrating too much to want to talk to anyone).


It turns out its New York/LA style ? what ever that means
That means slotted, not circular. NY is On 2, where you step -234-678, and LA is On 1, where you step 123-567-. I think there are other differences at the pattern/move level, but I've never tried On 2 so I can't answer further.

stewart38
12th-April-2006, 10:52 AM
That means slotted, not circular. NY is On 2, where you step -234-678, and LA is On 1, where you step 123-567-. I think there are other differences at the pattern/move level, but I've never tried On 2 so I can't answer further.


It was 123-567 :grin:

Glad im not the only one who has had similar expereince

andydo
13th-April-2006, 09:29 PM
That means slotted, not circular. NY is On 2, where you step -234-678, and LA is On 1, where you step 123-567-. I think there are other differences at the pattern/move level, but I've never tried On 2 so I can't answer further.

I'm afraid I'm turning into a bit of an on2 pedant. Yes, NY is on 2, but you still dance 123 567.

See

http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showpost.php?p=219604&postcount=48

Salsa classes can vary widely in their degree of professionalism. If you look around you may be able to find some that are much more beginner friendly.

Zuhal
14th-April-2006, 01:54 PM
When I went to learn Salsa I gave myself 20 lessons to see if it would become fun. At lesson 20 I decided that there was much to admire in the Dance form and there is a variety in the music which can only be appreciated if you are a dancer of some standard

While I agree that the format and the organisation would benefit from some MJ experience the whole phenonema of "friendliness" is entirely in the eyes of the beholder. I have equally been in an MJ environment where I know no-one and a salsa lesson where I know no-one. If I put in the effort, within a few weeks I have a few companions with which to chat, bitch about the music or whatever.

One of my most lonely 30 minutes occured at STORM where a group of the "friendliest people in the whole world" ignored me in the Pub. (My fault for not making the first move, but then I could not decide which foot to use)

I would suggest that you find a class that is in a teaching environment rather than a club and go to several consecutive classes.

Zuhal

Lynn
14th-April-2006, 09:13 PM
While I agree that the format and the organisation would benefit from some MJ experience the whole phenonema of "friendliness" is entirely in the eyes of the beholder. I have equally been in an MJ environment where I know no-one and a salsa lesson where I know no-one. If I put in the effort, within a few weeks I have a few companions with which to chat, bitch about the music or whatever. While I would agree that its up to us to put in the effort to make friends at any dance venues, and I did make friends at salsa, its not quite the same for several reasons.

The male-female ratio is different - so in classes, women tend to get competitive about even talking to men because I suppose talking to men means they can get to dance with them. When I first went to salsa classes I brought 5 other people with me, 3 guys and 2 women - sometimes the two women couldn't make it so I would be going along with 3 men. I saw women come up to our group and completely ignore me, to get to the men (I found this amusing rather than annoying though!).

That's in the classes - there is little or no 'freestyle' time at the classes, so to dance you have to go to a club. Again the big imbalance, and sorry but its definitely more cliquey - people tend to dance only with their friends. Here there is little or no chance to get to know anyone as the music volume is so loud that conversation is impossible. (I'm not going to even start on the smoke and appalling overcrowding). I didn't see the point in learning a dance style I couldn't dance socially, so I stopped going to classes. :shrug:

Actually, I've been thinking about it, and all the friends I know from salsa, I actually met at the MJ classes, but they also did salsa.

And what about the 5 people I took along to salsa classes 2 1/2 years ago? Only one still does salsa. But all 5 now come to Ceroc!

jezzyjj
1st-May-2006, 08:59 AM
I've been involved in both Salsa and jive and the structure of the night that Ceroc introduced to MJ would be something that many Salsa/Lindy... nights could benefit from adopting. Though due to the more complex nature of the dance it's not always entirely possible to do so. We introduced 4 levels of teaching in Salsa as with large no.s of people it is the best way of dealing with a wide variety of ability levels without either losing the beginners or better dancers. Though unless you have the luxury of 4 separate rooms you may get noise from the other classes.

With Street2 timing you can actually do either NY or Cuban style [slotted or circular] but the benefit of change in timing is that the slotted dance pattern turns fits the musical phrasing better.
If anybody wants to know more about the History or technical side of Salsa, this is a very good place for info http://www.salsa-merengue.co.uk/revealit/explode.html. There are even video lessons there too, if you want to dance in front of your monitor.

As for those who think all Salsa/Latin music sounds the same, consider a Brazilian saying all European music sounds the same. Just because you cannot tell the difference does not mean there isn't one. When you are unfamiliar with something such as language or music you only hear the similarities, however once you know/understand/familiarize yourself, you can tell the difference no problem. Whether it be between a Son and a Cumbia or EuroDisco and House, a Birmingham and Bristol Accent or a Parisien Accent Vs a Montpellier accent. If like me you are a beginner at French it's all French whereas the two British accents are very different to me as I know the language well enough to distinguish the difference, but to say a Spaniard it's all English. And when you live in an area long enough, you can even tell, not only that it's say a South Wales or Northern English accent but what town they come from and even what area in your own town sometimes if the town is big enough.

El Salsero Gringo
1st-May-2006, 03:17 PM
As for those who think all Salsa/Latin music sounds the same, consider a Brazilian saying all European music sounds the same. Just because you cannot tell the difference does not mean there isn't one. When you are unfamiliar with something such as language or music you only hear the similarities, however once you know/understand/familiarize yourself, you can tell the difference no problem. Whether it be between a Son and a Cumbia or EuroDisco and House, a Birmingham and Bristol Accent or a Parisien Accent Vs a Montpellier accent. If like me you are a beginner at French it's all French whereas the two British accents are very different to me as I know the language well enough to distinguish the difference, but to say a Spaniard it's all English. And when you live in an area long enough, you can even tell, not only that it's say a South Wales or Northern English accent but what town they come from and even what area in your own town sometimes if the town is big enough.Yeah, yeah, we know all that. But Salsa music still all sounds the same!

Minnie M
1st-May-2006, 03:41 PM
Yeah, yeah, we know all that. But Salsa music still all sounds the same!
:yeah: :blush: :yeah:

jezzyjj
1st-May-2006, 03:51 PM
Yeah, yeah, we know all that. But Salsa music still all sounds the same!
Only to the musically deaf:wink:
A chap I know who when he first came to Salsa couldn't tell the difference betweeen a Merengue and a Salsa, ended up not only becoming a teacher but played in a salsa band.

Having said that some DJs do play a very limited selection of latin music which is boring and tedious in the extreme just like a DJ playing one specific kind of House music or blues music is yawn inducing.
So, no different from those complaining about 'thump, thump' music really.
A good Latin DJ mixes it up like a good MJ DJ and will play Cumbia, merengue, latin hip hop, reggae, African Salsa, Cha Cha Cha, Drum+ Bass...etc

El Salsero Gringo
1st-May-2006, 05:24 PM
A chap I know who when he first came to Salsa couldn't tell the difference betweeen a Merengue and a Salsa, ended up not only becoming a teacher but played in a salsa band.A chap I know who when he first came to Salsa couldn't tell the difference betweeen a Merengue and a Salsa, ended up not only becoming a teacher but also told me he was now playing in a Merengue band.

Hang on a sec....

jezzyjj
1st-May-2006, 05:50 PM
Originally Posted by jezzyjj
A chap I know who when he first came to Salsa couldn't tell the difference betweeen a Merengue and a Salsa, ended up not only becoming a teacher but played in a salsa band. A chap I know who when he first came to Salsa couldn't tell the difference betweeen a Merengue and a Salsa, ended up not only becoming a teacher but also told me he was now playing in a Merengue band.

Hang on a sec....
Well...... I knew someone who couldn't tell the diference between Salsa, Tango and Swing and he became a Modern Jiver!:wink: