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Frankie_4711
9th-March-2006, 06:29 PM
Just wondered if you guys could maybe give me some advice?

While at Storm, I spent most of Saturday night and all of Sunday night in the Blues room – I have totally fallen in love with this style of dancing, which I had not done up until that point, feeling that it gave me, as a woman, so much more freedom to express myself and to feel and interpret the music – something I have always felt is an important aspect of dancing.

BUT, I need to know if I’m doing it wrong, or overdoing it, because I ‘seem’ to be sending out the wrong message to the guys. Or maybe it was the guys - I don't know! To me, all I was doing was dancing, following his lead and reacting to the song. Having read the Online Workshop on Sensual Dancing, I can’t see that I was doing anything unexpected – just following the guys’ lead – they held tight, I held tight; they wiggled, I wiggled. I even improvised a bit, slowing down some of my walk arounds, not immediately taking hold of an offered hand, but wiggling away or turning independently instead. I made some eye contact and even smiled a bit! All of which seemed to be appreciated …

Especially by about 6 or 7 guys who just kept coming back for more – maybe 5, 6, 7 times or more in an evening, some even asking for 4 or 5 dances in a row. Now I’m not rude and don’t want to be thought of as impolite, so I said ‘yes’ each time, and hoped it was just because I was a good dancer(?). But the reaction of 2 of those men once they discovered I was married made me wonder – they both just disappeared virtually without trace, and when I saw one later on, he didn’t even smile at me!

As I said, I’d never done this kind of dancing before, so just went with the flow. Should I have kept more distance (but that wouldn't have felt right for me)? Would I have been seen as rude if I’d said ‘no’ to some of those dances? Do the men out there feel that if a woman is dancing close and sexy that she wants more than just a dance? How do I know where ‘close’ stops and ‘too close’ starts, because that’s something that’s different for everyone – I didn’t think I was too close, maybe they did? Any tips from any ladies been in a similar position? I didn't seem to have the same effect of every man I danced with, so is it me, or is it them? So many questions - sorry, but please help! I’m confused!!

drathzel
9th-March-2006, 06:36 PM
please anyone correct me if i am wrong, but there is no wrong way to "blues", all you need to do is dance what you feel.


*it is fab isnt it:D

Lynn
9th-March-2006, 06:47 PM
Firstly - I know what you mean, I felt the same way about blues room dancing at my first weekender - that 'wow, I can really do things with the music'. Its great isn't it?

And yes you have to follow their lead but you can control just how close you get and just how much you respond. Its hard to describe as I react differently to each guy depending on how comfortable I feel with them and how I feel they are responding to what I am doing. If I felt they were getting the wrong message I would politely decline a dance if they've been asking a lot. (Or you can accept a dance and just do a 'normal' dance with 'distance' but then the guy really wonders what he's done and it feels mean to do that, better IMO to refuse.)

If I was dancing 4 or 5 blues dances in a row (them asking, me accepting) as you said I guess I wouldn't be that surprised if they asked if I was single, they might think that the 'connection' they are getting could go beyond the dance floor. (Its different if its someone you know pretty well of course.)

I usually wouldn't dance really close for too long with a guy if it was the first occasion (ie event) I had danced with him. Its perfectly OK to break the close hold and lead yourself out of it. It takes trust to really enjoy any UCP dance if and it usually takes time to build that up over several dances.

And there is a level of getting used to a partner and expressing yourself a little bit more each time you dance with them. I commented to a forumite about still feeling a little reserved dancing with him in 'play' terms, I would trust him completely on the dance floor, so its not about that, just simply that I haven't danced enough with him to the point of more self expression.

It also means there is always that little bit extra and new to bring to the next dance, though I suppose eventually you would run out of boundaries!

Hope this helps a bit!

Andy McGregor
9th-March-2006, 06:55 PM
Don't let those men make you wrong. All you were doing was dancing. What they were doing was expecting more than a dance. They were wrong, you were right. Don't feel bad that you're off their shopping list - dance with me, I'm married too*.



*which may come as a surprise to the people who think I'm gay :whistle:

Lynn
9th-March-2006, 07:00 PM
Don't let those men make you wrong. All you were doing was dancing. What they were doing was expecting more than a dance. They were wrong, you were right. :yeah::yeah:
Absolutely! Its dancing. No-one should expect it to be anything else.

Frankie_4711
9th-March-2006, 07:03 PM
Thank you - you've made me feel much better about what I was doing, and about doing it again. I'll try some of your suggestions Lynn, and I'll take you up on that offer one day Andy!

Ghost
9th-March-2006, 07:06 PM
:yeah: to the above advice

:yeah::yeah:
Absolutely! Its dancing. No-one should expect it to be anything else.
Absolutely :wink:
http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7923

Take care,
Christopher

Chef
9th-March-2006, 07:22 PM
All of the above.

It is not you sending out the wrong signals. But there is also another thread on this forum about "what is the ettiquette for asking for a phone number after a dance" and a persistant point is that both people may want a relationship that stems from a dance encounter but the only way to find out (and accept the risk of rejection) is to ask.

It might just be that this was all these guys were doing were chancing their arm and seeing if you were interested in them personally rather than just as dancers. I guess they got their answer from you and as long as everyone is polite about it then there would be no harm done. Where it does beyond the pale is where the rejection is done nastily or the other persons acceptance is also nasty.

It does sound as if the encounters you had just fit into the category of "faint heart never won fair lady".

Blues dancing is wonderful interms of its connection, musicality and sensuality (not necessarily sexuality). I also think it is a great deal for the followers because they have (as you have found) such a wide scope for musical interpretation, taking over the control of the dance for a while before giving it back. I guess you can tell that I am a fan of blues dancing.

If you find that a guy has pulled you closer to him than you are comfrotable with then you can always control the distance that you are comfortable with by using you left hand on the front of his shoulder to apply a degree of pressure on him. One last thing - from a guys point of view - is if you are in close hold and the guy is holding you tight, then don't hold him tightly - it makes it awfully hard for us guys to send you out to an open position if you are holding on for dear life.

The major trouble with blues dancing in this country is that there just isn't enough opportunity to do it. Have fun.

under par
9th-March-2006, 07:54 PM
Don't let those men make you wrong. All you were doing was dancing. What they were doing was expecting more than a dance. They were wrong, you were right.


:yeah: So right Andy (for a change!:whistle: :D )

They have now shown their true colours and you have that info to take to the next weekender /event.

And you don't accept as many dances in a row from them again :clap:

azande
10th-March-2006, 09:54 AM
I'm married too*.

*which may come as a surprise to the people who think I'm gay :whistle:
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive... :whistle:

Frankie_4711
10th-March-2006, 09:57 AM
:yeah: to the above advice

Absolutely :wink:
http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7923

Take care,
Christopher

Interesting reading!! Thanks! And thanks to you all - definitely going to bring in a '2-dance max' rule for next time!

LMC
10th-March-2006, 11:14 AM
And thanks to you all - definitely going to bring in a '2-dance max' rule for next time!
I ran into this "how do I get out of dancing with this guy who won't let me go" problem fairly early on (at my first ever freestyle in fact :eek: ). And some of the lovely ladies on here gave me the following strategies (sorry, can't remember where to credit them, but they are not mine). Depending on your partner...

"Sorry, but I promised a dance with ..."

"That's very flattering (that you've asked me for a third dance), but I was told you had to marry someone if you dance with them more than twice in a row - and that would make me guilty of bigamy. Maybe catch you for another dance later" (smile nicely etc)

"No, I mustn't be greedy, let me introduce you to my friend..." (presuming the partner concerned is a nice guy, it's just that you don't want to give him the wrong idea!)

If you run into problems with someone who just keeps coming back for more "two dances in a row" and you're getting uncomfortable, line up a few "knights in shining armour" guys that you trust (or even girls that can lead!) - I did this on Sunday at Storm (thank you lovely forum guys who said they'd help :hug:, luckily not needed in the end) ! - i.e. tell them that you might need rescuing later, and if they are not dancing, please would they come up to you at the end of the dance and ask you. The idea of asking a few people to be white knights is that they can all get on with their own evening's dancing, not just watch out for you - but as you have a few potential "rescuers", hopefully you can catch the eye of *one* of them if you are in need of polite intervention.

And if all else fails - just be firm: "I've really enjoyed our dances thank you (assuming you have!), but I'm just here for the dancing, variety is the spice of life and I'd like to dance with someone else now."

jivecat
10th-March-2006, 02:04 PM
The only times I have trouble with close contact is if I'm not really enjoying the dance or there's something else about my partner that makes me feel a bit uncomfortable, for example if their lead is too strong and I feel forced into it. I don't mind dancing close with complete strangers if there's a sense of connection.

If I'm really enjoying myself then I am very happy to have multiple dances without assuming there is any ulterior motive other than enjoying the dance, and I would be a bit upset if it was assumed that I had an ulterior motive. With partners that I'm having a really good time with it's often better to have 2 or 3 dances, go off and dance with other people for a bit then have a few more dances. That way it gives everyone plenty of freedom and avoids me getting bored with them or they with me.

If I've had enough after say, two dances, it's easy enough to step back decisively and say thank you in a pleasant but assertive kind of way. Most people will pick up the signal without you having to give an explanation.

Glad you enjoyed it so much! Hope to see you in a blues room somewhere soon! x Heather.

Andy McGregor
10th-March-2006, 03:45 PM
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive... :whistle:I think people are surprised that anyone would stay married to me ...

Andy McGregor
10th-March-2006, 03:49 PM
line up a few "knights in shining armour" guys that you trust (or even girls that can lead!) - At a dance few weeks ago I had a lady rush up to me and say "quick, kiss me". My answer was "where?" :devil: I quickly obliged with kisses on both cheeks before dancing the next 2 tracks with her. She called me the next day to tell me I was helping fend off some guy. However, another guy who got the same request suggested they went outside to do the kissing :what:

Frankie_4711
10th-March-2006, 04:51 PM
If you run into problems with someone who just keeps coming back for more "two dances in a row" and you're getting uncomfortable, line up a few "knights in shining armour" guys that you trust (or even girls that can lead!)

I have a 'hanger-on' at my weekly classes, and a few people have picked up on it and have come to 'rescue' me - one was a beginner woman asking me to be her 'man', which I thought was nice!

Thanks for the tips on how to turn someone down nicely! Will bear them in mind.

LMC
10th-March-2006, 05:01 PM
Although as jivecat says, if you are *both* enjoying dancing together and it is just the dancing then have as many in a row as you like :wink:

Lynn
10th-March-2006, 05:40 PM
Although as jivecat says, if you are *both* enjoying dancing together and it is just the dancing then have as many in a row as you like :wink:Agree. Though I would probably still have two dances in a row then dance again later with the same person, rather than all at once. Esp if they are a lovely dancer and there are women sitting out, I wouldn't want to be greedy.

I was thinking about this subject this morning while getting ready for work. (As you do.:rolleyes: ) Another reason I might 'hold back' a little is if the guy isn't that used to blues room dancing. Some guys think blues = pull the lady in close and wiggle a bit because that's what they see other people doing. There are always some guys who end up in the blues room later on after the main room has closed who are rather out of their depth. I will dance with them, and even play a bit if they seem OK with that, but there were a few times on Sun night when I really wanted to 'strut my stuff' and it was so difficult toning it down. My reason for toning it down was so that I wasn't giving them the wrong signals. (An experienced blues room dancer would be totally different.)

So while yes, its 'just' dancing, and yes, the guy shouldn't expect more than a dance, IMO the woman still has some responsibility about what she is communicating through her dancing.

jivecat
10th-March-2006, 07:04 PM
Esp if they are a lovely dancer and there are women sitting out, I wouldn't want to be greedy. Naturally, neither would I.:blush: But if I was really enjoying myself, and he was willing.......it's every woman for herself! I figure that I do plenty of sitting out at other times!
You're just so nice, Lynn.:worthy: :worthy:



So while yes, its 'just' dancing, and yes, the guy shouldn't expect more than a dance, IMO the woman still has some responsibility about what she is communicating through her dancing.

I can think of very few times when the way I was dancing, or indeed just dancing, was clearly interpreted as any sort of come-on. Usually with the sort of guy who has a mental list of "possibles" and is running through them until he gets a strike. Like Frankie_4711 found, they rapidly move on to the next in the list when they can see there's not going to be a result.
What about guys who initiate serial groin-grinds with me - do they not have responsibility for what they lead? Shame it's no longer possible to file "Breach of Promise" suits.:innocent:

Lynn
10th-March-2006, 08:26 PM
Naturally, neither would I.:blush: But if I was really enjoying myself, and he was willing.......it's every woman for herself! I figure that I do plenty of sitting out at other times! I do too and I'll admit if I was really lost in the music and the dancing with that partner I might get carried away and forget to share. But I quite enjoy have a couple of fab dances, leaving things with a 'another dance would be nice' rather than 'I've had enough of dancing with you' and finding each other for more dances later.

I can think of very few times when the way I was dancing, or indeed just dancing, was clearly interpreted as any sort of come-on. Oh neither can I - never I'm sure. (Well not unintentionally, or in public...:devil: )

Though I did rather shock a work colleague when dancing fairly bluesy with an MJ friend at a party, because my boyfriend was sitting there. Shows how non-dancers view UCP dancing.

What about guys who initiate serial groin-grinds with me - do they not have responsibility for what they lead? Shame it's no longer possible to file "Breach of Promise" suits.:innocent::rofl:

DianaS
10th-March-2006, 08:37 PM
So many questions - sorry, but please help! I’m confused!!

hello Frankie
Yes it is confusing isn't it?
I was really lucky when I was intruduced to blues mainly because the female safety aspects were emphased without making me feeling alarmed.
I was shown how to put my hand on their shoulder between them and me so that I could use it as leverage to move them away, how although the dance is very personal to say thank you and to move on. Two dances is nice, three is flirting, four and you are serious....
Also some guys are not their to dance but to experience intimacy, and to exploit it if they can. A weekender is ideal for this and blues can offer a legitimate opportunity
For what it's worth both men and women have difficulty in this area, sometimes when we discover something new we are particularly exposed and the people who guide us through this are very valuable and can keep us safe. (Thank you to my guides. You know who you are, and you have always looked after me).
I think that you found a form of expression that suited you and being "new" you expressed your self without self consciousness. That's beautiful. If you had had people around you who knew you they would have protected you in that discovery. As it was they didn't understand what it was you were expressing as quite understandably experienced it personally and felt rejected when they realised that it was about YOU not about THEM
Guys have feelings too and they must have felt upset:tears: :tears: :tears:
When I dance I often loose myself, maybe you did too but we do have a responsibility to be clear about what it is we are expressing, a sense of self or a sense of desire.. Sometimes the two are very close, but we do need to be clear when a dance is a dance and when it is over. Maybe two is good three is bad four and your married is a good rule of thumb.
Enjoy your dancing, and enjoy the sense of self that it gives you, I'd love to meet you sound so very expressive

RogerR
10th-March-2006, 08:50 PM
Jive and Blues are just places in the real world, there will always be a mix of singles and attatched people some hunting harder than others! It's perfectly fair to get to know others when you are at a dance, What's NOT fair either way is to hit on someone without their consent.

Probably a reasoned option (well I think it is!) is to break hold after a couple of dances, If you want another then sip a drink and ask, or take a break talk to him/her then try to dance again. That way the introductions are made before the embarassment.

DianaS
10th-March-2006, 09:03 PM
Don't let those men make you wrong. All you were doing was dancing. What they were doing was expecting more than a dance. They were wrong, you were right. Don't feel bad that you're off their shopping list - dance with me, I'm married too*.

*which may come as a surprise to the people who think I'm gay :whistle:

Andy In your previous life you INVENTED gay - and you wont let us forget it. To me, you'll always be a very kind man and I won't let you forget that!

BTW

Andy McGregor
10th-March-2006, 09:13 PM
Andy In your previous life you INVENTED gay - and you wont let us forget it. No, in that previous life I invented CAMP - and it was stolen by a bunch of queens :tears: There's no reason on earth why you should be gay to be camp, but for some reason the two are linked. I say be proud to be camp, there's nothing wrong with liking musical theatre, admiring Kylie/Dietrich and dancing in a way that rubs your inner thighs together :innocent:

jivecat
10th-March-2006, 11:33 PM
Two dances is nice, three is flirting, four and you are serious....

Nah, it's still just a dance.

Ghost
11th-March-2006, 01:48 AM
Two dances is nice, three is flirting, four and you are serious....
Opps :blush: No-one told me this. I'm gonna have to apologise to quite a few boyfriends and husbands. :flower:
Um dare I ask, what's five mean? :whistle:


Nah, it's still just a dance.
:yeah:

Take care,
Christopher

Lynn
11th-March-2006, 02:16 AM
When I dance I often loose myself, maybe you did too but we do have a responsibility to be clear about what it is we are expressing, a sense of self or a sense of desire.. Sometimes the two are very close, but we do need to be clear Never thought about it that way and I think that's very helpful.:worthy: Expressing a sense of self or a sense of desire. Hmmm. And yes, sometimes the two do overlap, and when they do we might need to be guarded about expressing the 'desire'. And of course there is room for misunderstanding, hence the need for clarity.

I was talking with one partner in tango tonight about how tango is a dance of passion and that is expressed when dancing as part of the connection. When both partners understand it is part of the dance, there is more freedom to express it, without misunderstanding.

jivecat
11th-March-2006, 10:54 AM
we do have a responsibility to be clear about what it is we are expressing, a sense of self or a sense of desire.. Sometimes the two are very close, but we do need to be clear when a dance is a dance and when it is over.

I suppose I see blues dancing as play-acting- I might be expressing something that's close to a sense of desire, but in an impersonal kind of way. As with any form of acting, it might be informed by genuine feelings or experience, but it's still essentially "not real". I hope that's clear (as mud).

The experience of physically and mentally sharing the music is, for me, what makes a wonderful dance; it is very powerful and is what makes dancing so pleasurable and addictive. Am I alone in thinking this?

But a dance is still just a dance.

jivecat
11th-March-2006, 10:55 AM
I was talking with one partner in tango tonight about how tango is a dance of passion and that is expressed when dancing as part of the connection. When both partners understand it is part of the dance, there is more freedom to express it, without misunderstanding.
:yeah:

Magic Hans
11th-March-2006, 11:42 AM
hello Frankie
Yes it is confusing isn't it?

~ SNIP ~

Enjoy your dancing, and enjoy the sense of self that it gives you, I'd love to meet you sound so very expressive


:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:

Fully agree .... this follows my perspective as closely as blues itself!

For me, all dancing is all about physical (not sexual) relationship and interraction.

Over time physical raport generally builds between regular dance partners. Very occasionally, that physical rapport is instant or as near as dammit. Sometimes, it simply just doesn't happen.

Again, from my perspective, women (in general) have a clear boundary between physical and sexual, whereas men (in general) don't. Either that or quite different perspectives.

Therein lies what I see as the crux of the problem whever men and women interract physically.

Final disclaimer: Clearly this is certainly not the case for everyone, however it seems to mostly fit the bill from my perspective {either that or my perspective has altered in order to encompass it!!}

Frankie_4711
11th-March-2006, 12:02 PM
Some very interesting and thought-provoking opinions and suggestions, all of which I shall take to Brean with me, and hopefully be more successful in my goal this time!!

Jivecat - I do understand where you're coming from with the acting theory.

DianaS - I'm looking forward to meeting as many of you guys as possible! (in fact, looking at the Storm pics, I know I already have met/danced with some of you!)

And Andy - you're absolutely right - there's nothing wrong with being straight and camp as hell!!:respect: Looking forward to that dance even more now!

Lynn
11th-March-2006, 01:52 PM
I suppose I see blues dancing as play-acting- I might be expressing something that's close to a sense of desire, but in an impersonal kind of way. As with any form of acting, it might be informed by genuine feelings or experience, but it's still essentially "not real". I hope that's clear (as mud). Playing, acting, performing, expressing the music and the moment - yes its all of those.

But (largely theoretical question here) there is still the potential on occasion of crossing over to 'real' isn't there? (Or of course of being 'real' if dancing with your husband/wife/partner etc.) So how would anyone know the difference? Perhaps that's why duration of dancing time is taken as some sort of indication? Problem is that it not the same for everyone (as in the case of Frankie's question at the start of this thread). Is there any 'ettiquette' for this?

(Not that I'm often kept up for many dances in a row by partners for any reason, dancing or otherwise, there are always plenty of other equally/more suitable partners for them to dance with which is just fine. Any time I have I've been able to work out if its out of any 'extra' interest by verbal clues like Frankie found - 'do you have a boyfriend?' type questions. But I would still like to know, for future reference.)

The experience of physically and mentally sharing the music is, for me, what makes a wonderful dance; it is very powerful and is what makes dancing so pleasurable and addictive. Am I alone in thinking this? No - for me that sharing is the connection, mentally and physically, that makes it wonderful for me too. With poor connection the guy can be a fabulous dancer but I won't enjoy the dance half as much.

jivecat
11th-March-2006, 02:50 PM
:yum:
But (largely theoretical question here) there is still the potential on occasion of crossing over to 'real' isn't there? (Or of course of being 'real' if dancing with your husband/wife/partner etc.) So how would anyone know the difference?
On the few occasions it's crossed over to "real" for me I've resolutely ignored it- it's actually a d*mned nuisance & is a distraction from the dancing!
I think the situation for well-established couples is slightly different from people who are in a, um, pre-potential-relationship phase as it is a known quantity with no uncertainties. For example, they could be open about the "realness".


Any time I have I've been able to work out if its out of any 'extra' interest by verbal clues like Frankie found - 'do you have a boyfriend?' type questions. But I would still like to know, for future reference.)
Yup, even I'm not so dim that I miss noticing that cue!

Lynn
11th-March-2006, 02:58 PM
:yum: On the few occasions it's crossed over to "real" for me I've resolutely ignored it- it's actually a d*mned nuisance & is a distraction from the dancing! Mmm, very distracting... :drool: :blush:

Yup, even I'm not so dim that I miss noticing that cue!I'm improving, I'm usually pretty dim in that regard (I have always had a lot of male friends so don't tend to 'read into' things unless its very obvious) and I still wouldn't necessarily always pick up even on that one. :blush: :blush: (They could just be making conversation...)

LMC
11th-March-2006, 03:00 PM
:yum: On the few occasions it's crossed over to "real" for me I've resolutely ignored it- it's actually a d*mned nuisance & is a distraction from the dancing!
:yeah: :mad:

Now, if it were only mutual, that would be different... :drool: :blush:

DianaS
11th-March-2006, 03:24 PM
Okay I need some advice.

Occasionally when I 'm dancing the connection becomes almost too much, almost but not quite uncomfortable. But exquisite. At the end of the dance I sometimes turn around and walk off if I don't know the guy and I've realised that it must seem very rude or abrupt.

Other times when I feel more assured, I kiss them on the cheek or thank them warmly. This form of closure seems quite acceptable, the kiss or the thanks are well received and we seperate. These people I feel safe with, its those who I feel less secure with that I tend to turn tail on!

Fortuneately, the abrupt endings are fewer than they used to be but I'm wondering when I feel exposed and unsure how I can manage this more elegantly?

Lots of people have to handle happy endings to lovely dances, can you give me a few pointers please?

Ghost
11th-March-2006, 04:18 PM
Fortuneately, the abrupt endings are fewer than they used to be but I'm wondering when I feel exposed and unsure how I can manage this more elegantly?
Simply smile! As long as it shows in your eyes :wink:

A few ladies bow (both oriental and western styles) or curtsey to me at the end, but that's probably because I bow to them at the beginning.

If a lady walks away from me radiating "happy" - I'll be walking on air all week :clap:

Hope that helps,
Christopher

Lynn
11th-March-2006, 05:13 PM
Been thinking some more about this and realised that with a really good connected dance I'm not play acting or pretending. At that moment, during that dance, the man I am dancing with is the most important person in the room, I want to be dancing in his arms, and expressing the music in connection with him. This doesn't mean the dance is anything 'more' than a dance, but it does mean that its a close, shared, and at times intimate, few moments. At the end, we part with the pleasure of a shared experience and dance with someone else. And those are the best dances.
Occasionally when I'm dancing the connection becomes almost too much, almost but not quite uncomfortable. But exquisite. At the end of the dance I sometimes turn around and walk off if I don't know the guy and I've realised that it must seem very rude or abrupt.

Other times when I feel more assured, I kiss them on the cheek or thank them warmly. This form of closure seems quite acceptable, the kiss or the thanks are well received and we seperate. These people I feel safe with, its those who I feel less secure with that I tend to turn tail on! Haven't thought about the closing at the end of a really good dance, probably a hug if I know the guy. If I've had a really connected dance I'm sometimes almost floating a little bit and want to pause before a dance with someone else.

spindr
11th-March-2006, 08:24 PM
Hmmm, difficult this one -- just because there's music playing doesn't always make it a dance :)

A lot of dance techniques that suggest that partners are dancing with each other are using the same psychological cues that are used for flirting, etc. -- e.g. body mirroring and eye contact. Anything that resembles rubbing / grinding is straying towards frottage (even shoe-shine moves from AT?). It's not unsurprising that such things might be misinterpreted.

I'd suggest that if you would avoid dancing a particular move(ment) or number of dances together when your (or your partner's) significant other is in the room -- might suggest an appropriate boundary??

SpinDr.

El Salsero Gringo
11th-March-2006, 09:45 PM
No, in that previous life I invented CAMP - and it was stolen by a bunch of queens :tears: There's no reason on earth why you should be gay to be camp, but for some reason the two are linked. I say be proud to be camp, there's nothing wrong with liking musical theatre, admiring Kylie/Dietrich and dancing in a way that rubs your inner thighs together :innocent:Lordy - my turn to panic because I agree with Mr McGregor.

(does being a closet fan of Air Supply count, too?)

DianaS
12th-March-2006, 11:15 AM
No, in that previous life I invented CAMP - and it was stolen by a bunch of queens :tears: There's no reason on earth why you should be gay to be camp, but for some reason the two are linked. I say be proud to be camp, there's nothing wrong with liking musical theatre, admiring Kylie/Dietrich and dancing in a way that rubs your inner thighs together :innocent:
:rofl:
Dwarling

bigdjiver
12th-March-2006, 11:55 AM
I suppose I see blues dancing as play-acting- I might be expressing something that's close to a sense of desire, but in an impersonal kind of way. As with any form of acting, it might be informed by genuine feelings or experience, but it's still essentially "not real". I hope that's clear (as mud).

The experience of physically and mentally sharing the music is, for me, what makes a wonderful dance; it is very powerful and is what makes dancing so pleasurable and addictive. Am I alone in thinking this?

But a dance is still just a dance.:yeah:

If it starts to become "real" for me I change styles until that dance finishes, blowing the "connection". I then seek other partners. Apologies to those partners that have told me that "less is more", I knew that.

DianaS
12th-March-2006, 12:13 PM
:yeah:

If it starts to become "real" for me I change styles until that dance finishes, blowing the "connection". I then seek other partners. Apologies to those partners that have told me that "less is more", I knew that.
Yep thats me too! turn tail and run a mile:rofl: :rofl:

Debster
12th-March-2006, 01:21 PM
Fascinating subject, just had to chime in... :)

It's not just in blues, but I've always had a feeling that if a guy asks for a third dance he's unusually keen, and if he then asks for a fourth he wants more than a dance. :what:

It's really interesting to hear that echoed here.

If feeling uneasy I would sheepishly escape from accepting dance number 4 by using the old "thanks but I really have to go to the bathroom" and disappear. (They tend to let you go pretty easily then) :devil: / :innocent: Then find someone else quickly on the way back to the dance floor.

DianaS
12th-March-2006, 01:42 PM
Fascinating subject, just had to chime in... :)

It's not just in blues, but I've always had a feeling that if a guy asks for a third dance he's unusually keen, and if he then asks for a fourth he wants more than a dance. :what:

It's really interesting to hear that echoed here.

If feeling uneasy I would sheepishly escape from accepting dance number 4 by using the old "thanks but I really have to go to the bathroom" and disappear. (They tend to let you go pretty easily then) :devil: / :innocent: Then find someone else quickly on the way back to the dance floor.
Some times I say "Here if you dance three times it means your MARRIED"
Then they run for over:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

LMC
12th-March-2006, 01:44 PM
Some times I say "Here if you dance three times it means your MARRIED"
Ah, so it was you I got that one from :wink: - thanks :flower:

Just some meanderings to demonstrate the dilemma further...

I landed a complete "stranger" for the DWAS at Walthamstow last night (never met/danced with him before, didn't even recognise him from elsewhere). He was obviously *very* excited about the prospect of doing a competition and was immediately very touchy-feely hands-on. But NOT in a sleazy way, and if it had been someone I knew better or even someone I had a better 'instant rapport' with then I would not have reacted in the way I did - which was that his constant 'patting' and enthusiasm were not welcome. I didn't say anything - as I am 100% certain that he didn't mean 'anything' by his behaviour, which was due purely to nervous excitement. I had to make a special effort to tell myself to be nice and not spoil the DWAS for him by being a miserable cow, as I'm sure he would have been mortified to think that what he meant as pure friendliness (and it definitely was just that) was not appreciated. So I did try to be pleasant, although I'm not sure how well I succeeded as I found it impossible to match his enthusiasm :sick:

I feel a bit mean for being slightly stand-offish last night. And angry with myself for being both hypocritical and indecisive. If the guy's patting my arms and constant hugging after introductions but before the comp were not not welcome, why did I have such an inability to say so? - possibly because I knew that there was no sexual intent, he was just on an adrenalin high - and the one and only nice bone in my body firmly told me not to spoil it for him. Plus it seems a bit silly to say "for goodness sake, stop touching me!" when dancing is a contact sport.

The point is that what's acceptable behaviour from some people is not acceptable from others - and that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how well you know them. Yes, it's personal. Yes, it's different for every partner. And why the hell shouldn't it be?

I'm getting very tired of the culture that we should treat all partners equally and not say no to anybody. After a bad week's dancing, I'm getting to the point where I don't want to ask people I don't know to dance, because if I have asked them, it makes it more difficult to ask them to behave differently (it shouldn't, but it does).

Lynn
12th-March-2006, 04:12 PM
The point is that what's acceptable behaviour from some people is not acceptable from others - and that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how well you know them. Yes, it's personal. Yes, it's different for every partner. And why the hell shouldn't it be?:yeah:
Almost every aspect is variable for me. The level of closeness I am comfortable with, the way I respond, the amount I play - it all depends on how I feel with that partner. (The only real constant would be that I think I smile at some point in every dance.) And as far as I am concerned thats a Good Thing as it gives a uniqueness to each partnership and for me at least, enriches the dance experience.

senorita
13th-March-2006, 11:24 AM
dance with me, I'm married too*.

*which may come as a surprise to the people who think I'm gay :whistle:

:rofl: :rofl:

:respect: :worthy: