Blackpool Judging - I thought it was OK

[DavidB]

Ok - if no-one else wants to start the discussion Bill wanted...

I thought the judges did a very good job. I am obviously biased in one division, but I couldn't see anything in the results that I thought was wrong. I might have had the odd position switched round, but nothing major.

I did hear a lot of comments about who made the final, compared with who didn't. Just remember that a couple might have danced out of their skin in the semi, and blown it in the final.

I thought the music was pretty good. They were obviously trying to keep it consistent from one heat to the next, and different from one round to the next.

Not everything was perfect. If you are going to have a warm-up dance, then it should be just that. It shouldn't be judged, and the judges shouldn't even watch. If the judges are marking it, then don't call it a warm-up. I don't think it made any difference to the results, but it is a bit disheartening to see the judges having a big discussion amongst themselves when they are supposed to watching the dancers. (Personally I don't think there is a need for a warm-up dance in anything other than the first round.)

If you are going to have 2 songs per heat, then make them different. And make one of the tracks for the advanced semi a really challenging one. They are advanced dancers - they should be able to cope. Again I don't think it made any difference, but it is just better for the spectators.

If you are going to have rules for each division, then you should enforce them. If you want to let people have a lot of freedom, then don't have the rules. I know at least one couple who didn't enter the showcase because their routine had no Modern Jive in it. As it turns out the rule was not enforced.

And for the next person who says that aerials should be allowed - with only 5 couples on that huge floor, and each given a place to start dancing, there were still 2 near misses...


David

[Gus]

Originally posted by DavidB
I thought the judges did a very good job.

David Hmmm ... well ... not sure that I totally agree. (of course I'm equally biased :wink: ) ..... no, really, personal view aside I thought that the judges were faced with a very difficult time ... there was a quantum step forward in the quality of competitors in all events this year. I thought that the Judges did an especially good jobs in the cabaret events.

However, there were a number of conversations with friends about some of the results at each stage of the Int and Adv events and I think that the general opinion was that some of the decisions were 'surprising'. To be fair I think our consensus was that we really don't understand what the judges are looking for.

So ... I'm not saying that the judges decisions were bad ... just that I didn't understand them .... so maybe the fault rests me me rather than the judges. At the end of the day, each one of the judges is recognised to be at the top of the game ... shame that maybe a lot of people don't know what they are after??:sick:

[TheTramp]

On the whole, I have to agree with David. I thought that the judges did a pretty good job, and I don't think that there can have been too many moans - certainly not in comparison to other events I've seen.

I hate to resurrect the whole debate about publishing the judges marks though (for all events/all heats), but can someone from C2D say whether or not this will happen. I think that most competitors would like to see exactly where they need to improve - I know for certain that I would.

The couple of minor niggles I have, which I told Andy on the day, and don't really affect anything:

During the first heats of the TAC, I was watching out for the judges (yes, in order to show off more when they came near), but where we were dancing, I didn't see a judge come within 7 metres of us. I don't think that we'd have gone through anyhow, but I know a number of other people who said the same. Maybe if the judges are going to be on the the floor, they should have been given an area each to 'walk'.

The other one, David has already mentioned. If the warm up is a warm up, then people shouldn't be judged on that at all. A friend of mine was 'tapped through' in the first round of the TAC after he'd done one move. And that was a first move too!! He did eventually place, so obviously it was the right decision, but even so......

But, it was a great day, and well done to the C2D team for all their hard work. :D

Steve

[Dave Hancock]

I would have to say that I agree with much of what DavidB says and think that the judging was of a reasonable standard, in any such competition there are always going to be grievances and people disappointed not to progress as far as they may have hoped. I think that it should also be remebered that in such a short space of tiome the judges have to watch quite a large number of competitors and it may be that a couple dance well for a 10 or 15 second burst when several of the judges and then in an average manner the rest of the track, whereas another couple may dance very well throughout a dance but just miss a move or get their timings out as a number of judges are watching and thus not progress. It really is just the luck of the draw.

I would however say that I agree at times there were some peculiar decisions, especially having watched the Aussies in the first round of the advanced for a bit. I was very suprised they got through as IMHO they were mince in this round, although they did perform much better in subsequent rounds and it may be that I just saw them at bad moments but it looked a bit rehearsed and (again IMHO) was totally out of time with the music. I can only think that if they hadn't travelled half the world with a big reputation they would've crashed out there and then and perhaps one of the potential 2 other main contributors to this thread would've progressed.

[Dave Hancock]

Just read Steve's comments and have to agree with him in the judging of the TAC first round, as having sat up his (away from the Scots) to watch my lassie perform I was a bit surprised that not one judge made it up to the top end of the floor where there were several fairly good dancers and can only assume that in the warm up dance they were cherry-picking a certain number of people as I think I was dancing next to Steve's mate as the lad next to me didn't even to a move, merely stepped back and was through.

[David Franklin]

Originally posted by Gus
So ... I'm not saying that the judges decisions were bad ... just that I didn't understand them .... so maybe the fault rests me me rather than the judges. At the end of the day, each one of the judges is recognised to be at the top of the game ... shame that maybe a lot of people don't know what they are after??:sick:
I feel much the same way. I know I couldn't judge - I just can't split my attention well enough! That said, there were a couple of results I really couldn't fathom - I would love to be able to watch the finals on video with the Judges' commentaries overlaid and see what they saw that I missed. Not very fair on the competitors though - I'd hate to have it done to me!

[In case it's not clear, I'm also not saying the decisions were bad. But I'm left feeling there's a whole "dimension" the judges look for that I'm missing, much like the whole "musical interpretation" thing was over my head when I first started dancing]

Dave

[David Franklin]

Originally posted by DavidB
And for the next person who says that aerials should be allowed - with only 5 couples on that huge floor, and each given a place to start dancing, there were still 2 near misses...
Firstly, big congratulations to Lily :D

Was amazing to really see how much space you can take up doing aerials - I think they ended up with the two "biggest" couples next to each other which didn't help things!

As a slight side change of direction, but speaking of aerials, I saw a lot of people in the freestyle rounds breaking the "one foot on the floor rule" during their dips and tricks, albeit by accident . I can see a grey area where you might be lenient, but there were people doing "over the knee" dips with the partners feet ending up in the air, who still went through to the next round.

I did see someone do what looked like a completely intentional "feet off the floor" move - but it was in the warm-up track. He wasn't disqualified - not sure what the judges should have done...

Dave

[Dreadful Scathe]

I think the judges decisions were pretty good for the most part. I heard that they mark down the points for each couple and the most points win - this may seem obvious but it means that the heat you are in is irrelevant as it is global marks for the entire round that matter, it also means the judges themselves dont know whos through or not, the points have to be collated first. This sounds pretty fair to me and i doubt if theres a better way to do it. Course, someone will need to confirm Ive got that info correct!

The first round of Take A Chance is a different matter altogether as there is no way they can cover 50 couples in such a short time. They obviously judged during the warm up track and then more or less picked on that (or at the very least knew who to watch for) - but what else could they do with 50 couples? difficult situation and probably worse that they have to look for the good couples rather than last year when they had to look for the bad. 'Bad' dancers being far easier to spot :). Still the C2D team have a good rep so Im sure they'll take all comments on board regarding judging.

And Keith - when can we expect DVD delivery ? :)

[Keith]

In the middle of formulating a blanket response to the main comments, so watch this space.
As for the DVD we were told 8 weeks!
Last year we were told 12 & it took nearly 18. We do keep pushing them though!
Thanks for the comments, we do really take them seriously, it’s the only way to improve.
N.B. Anybody making comments; please think them through to their conclusion, the impact they may have & consequences to other areas. ‘Didn’t like the music’ for example is purely personal & a request list with a 1000 plus requests on it, from every dancer in the room still wouldn’t work either. Only an example.
Thanks again
Keith
:cheers:

[Will]

Originally posted by David Franklin
Firstly, big congratulations to Lily :D
I did see someone do what looked like a completely intentional "feet off the floor" move - but it was in the warm-up track. He wasn't disqualified - not sure what the judges should have done...

I saw someone do a half-loop in the SENIOR section too which I thought was very amusing. I know at least one of the judges saw it by her reaction. No idea if the couple were penalized though.

[Will]

My congratulations go to James & Lily for winning the big one.

I'm not one to pour praise upon myself or blow my own trumpet, but I do actually have take some credit for there win here.

I was in Bar Cuba last Monday having a chat with said Mr Geary about how with Ceroc you can only dance in the UK or Australia whereas you can find Salsa dancers almost anywhere. He quite sharply came back at me and reminded me that you can also Ceroc in New Zealand to which I replied "Oh, I thought that was part of Australia."

He was somewhat put out by my comment and preceeded to demonstrate that prior to Salsa & Ceroc, his main hobby had been Tai-Kwan-Do. Fortunately my years of Ceroc dancing where not without there uses as I was able to block the ensuing round-house kick with a Yo-yo style block and then counter with a Catapault.

Needless to say that subsequent to the brawl he was fired up enough to put in that last little bit of work needed to cross the finish line in front of the Aussie's and put NZ on the map.

I therefore graciously accept any share finicial reward that James sees fit to bestow upon me next time I see him.

[Dancing Veela]

Well I thought the judging of the Cabaret was a bit dodgy....surely that fantastic Fatal Attraction Team should have won?????? :wink:

But hey if we did have to lose at least it was to friends (well apart from Sherwin who has given me a hard time about it since the announcement :reallymad :wink: )

DVx

[John S]

Originally posted by Dancing Veela
Well I thought the judging of the Cabaret was a bit dodgy....surely that fantastic Fatal Attraction Team should have won?????? :wink:



DV, Your FA team danced superbly and you know (from what I said to you before the results were announced) that I wouldn't have argued at all if the judges had opted for you. But they didn't ...........:nice: :nice:

Still, as others have commented, one of the highspots in the day was the spirit with which your team greeted the announcement of Team Dundee's win and I do hope (if Keith & co read this) that the mutual hugs etc are shown on the official video.

So, with 2 teams choreographed and (largely) filled by Dundonians the city is now famous for Jute, Jam, Journalism and Jive!!!

[Dance Demon]

I think there could be lengthy debate about the decisions arrived at by the Judges, but that is only to be expected. Everyone has a personal view which will differ greatly from person to person.I agree with Gus's comment about the leap in standard giving the judges a very difficult job. As a non competitor with a totally unbiased view:wink: Ithink that the judges did a good job on a very long day. I didn't totally agreee with all the decisions but respect that everyone looks for different things.
Did the same judges judge every session or did they have a different panel for each section?
Re the music, I noticed that the same warm up track was used for each heat, but a different second track, albeit a similar type of track. Should everyone dance to the same piece of music, or would that give an unfair advantage to those in the heats after the first one?
One thing I did wonder about in the double trouble, was the fact that in the first heat, three Scottish couples had to dance against each other. Was it a case of a winner from each heat or was it teams with best scores throughout who got through?

[TheTramp]

I believe that in all the categories, it was the people with the highest scores that got through.

In the double trouble, there were 3 heats, and in the final, were 2 triples from the first heat, and 2 triples from the 3rd heat, and no-one from the second heat.

Steve

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by John S

So, with 2 teams choreographed and (largely) filled by Dundonians the city is now famous for Jute, Jam, Journalism and Jive!!!

Not quite John. The team was made up of 3 from dundee, 2 from Wormit on the 'wrong' side of the Tay ;), 2 from Aberdeen, 2 from Falkirk, 2 from St.Andrews and 1 from Glasgow (via US of A).So a true victory for Scotland :).

I think TheTramp summed it up better

1st Place : Dundee
2nd place: The Rest of Scotland ;)

[Graham W]

None of the judges were looking at the rugby lot in the double trouble final!?

G

[John S]

Dear DS

Sorry for tarring anyone unwittingly with the Dundee brush - I was just going by the venue where people habitually danced rather than by where they paid their Council Tax, and I thought about half the FA team went to Dundee - sorry if I got that wrong.

For that matter, half of "Team Dundee" also live outside the city boundary and/or in Fife, and of course we've even got our very own Bombay Bad Boy!

So let's not split hairs - I'm not a Dundonian, and although I'm honoured to have been part of the team. I really don't have any axe to grind for the city, and as you said, it really was a true victory for Scotland, and for all the fine and worthy places we all come from, or dance at.

So at least let's agree on that!!!:cheers:

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by John S

So at least let's agree on that!!!

ooh, think you picked me up wrong there ! It was one of those pedantic comments I make every now and again purely to let the less knowledgeable folks know about some other Scottish places, no more than that :). Im sure there are plenty people reading this who would be honoured to be tarred with the Dundee Brush :).

[TheTramp]

None of the judges were looking at the rugby lot in the double trouble final!?That's what we heard too...

It's no matter, we were there mainly to provide entertainment. In a way, I'm glad that we didn't get placed.

I hope that we achieved our main goal, and that you enjoyed it.

Steve

[Bill]

Well................I have to agree with most of the comments that on the whole the judges did pretty well and that's a very long day for them to watch and mark so thanks to them.


As Gus said, I'm still not sure what they are looking for but only a few quibbles eg the couple in white in the Intermediate final should have been placed I think and it's quite clear that the warm up track is used for judging - and this makes sense but this should be made clear.

But........as Steve pointed out I only saw 1 judge pass me in the second round of DWAS and someone did comment that in my round they were almost all round the other side and I was dancing with the superb Rachel who is already absolutely fantastic and will undoubtedly be a real star in the near future ( so I can already say I danced with her !! :D ).

DWAS is the one comp ( like Lucky Dip in London ) that I never understand because I saw a few couples dancing really well together who didn't progress and were (IMHO) much better than a few of the couples in the final. I think about 6 couples went through from the round before mine but looked as if only about 2 or 3 went through from my round.


But.........no problems with the music.......some great tracks, great organisation, some wonderful dancers, great competition and how on earth can CTD team improve on that ??????? Congrats to Tony for a great job of hosting and to Keith and all the team for a wonderful day. :cheers: :D

[Keith]

Originally posted by Bill
DWAS is the one comp (like Lucky Dip in London) that I never understand because I saw a few couples dancing really well together who didn't progress and were (IMHO) much better than a few of the couples in the final. I think about 6 couples went through from the round before mine but looked as if only about 2 or 3 went through from my round.Hi Guys,
Sorry not been around for a couple of days, so I may have missed a lot.
For me, no matter whose competition it is, the DT TAC DWaS, whatever you want to call it, is the only round where any dancer can get involved no matter how good. This I always take in the spirit it was set up in. The organisers, us included try to fit as many people in as possible, so they can be involved in the day, without having to worry too much about their performances.
Unfortunately this always leaves the judges with an exceptionally difficult task.
We only have a few options;
Add another 1/2 hour to the competition, I think it was long enough anyway.
Get another 5 or 6 judges, not cost effective.
Cut the numbers down, defeats the objective re allowing lots of people to enter the competition & have fun.
The other rounds are there for the serious dancers.
I hope this makes sense.
I should also have finished by tonight the answers to some of your other main points.
Keep on dancing
Keith :grin:

[Dancing Veela]

Originally posted by Keith
N.B. Anybody making comments; please think them through to their conclusion, the impact they may have & consequences to other areas. ‘Didn’t like the music’ for example is purely personal & a request list with a 1000 plus requests on it, from every dancer in the room still wouldn’t work either. Only an example.
Thanks again
Keith
:cheers:

Just on this point Keith, I think the comment that was made earlier was really just down to the fact that if you think of what 'Jive' music means to most people (especially non dancers) they do think of old fashioned Jive/Rock and Roll and really there was very little of it during the whole event.


DV x

[Gus]

Originally posted by Dancing Veela
if you think of what 'Jive' music means to most people (especially non dancers) they do think of old fashioned Jive/Rock and Roll and really there was very little of it during the whole event.


DV x

Sorry ... can't resist :devil: :devil: :devil:

....and that is why we do Modern Jive and don't have to wear DA's or winkle pickers ...... Ceroc music should be MODERN! RocknRoll is DEAD! Long Live Chart/Club music!!:wink:

[Dancing Veela]

Originally posted by Gus
Sorry ... can't resist :devil: :devil: :devil:

....and that is why we do [b]Modern[b] Jive and don't have to wear DA's or winkle pickers ...... Ceroc music should be MODERN! RocknRoll is DEAD! Long Live Chart/Club music!!:wink:

Then let's change the title of the event to 'UK Open Modern Jive Championships' :what:

P.S. you owe me two dances now Gus!!!!

[Gus]

Fair comment!

BUT ... tell me how having to dance with you more than once could be anything other than a pure delight???? :innocent:

[Graham W]

The couple in white were outclassed in the first round by a couple in round 1 who didnt progress in silver (I'm biased) - I was delighted for the silver medalists in the intermediate category thu - they danced with a lot of passion & pleasure - thats why I dance - f-u-n...

Anyway it's all a great occassion....

G

who is gonna stop Sherif winning dwas..?

[Gus]

Originally posted by Graham W


who is gonna stop Sherif winning dwas..?
Well ... not taking anything away from the guy ... in three comps I've seen him end up with three advanced or near advanced dance partners .... HOW DOES HE DO IT?????

[Keith]

Originally posted by Graham W
The couple in white were outclassed in the first round by a couple in round 1 who didnt progress in silver (I'm biased) - I was delighted for the silver medalists in the intermediate category thu - they danced with a lot of passion & pleasure - thats why I dance - f-u-n...

Anyway it's all a great occassion....

G

who is gonna stop Sherif winning dwas..?

When you have that much luck on your side nobody ever will!
His partner was fantastic & worked very well with the master of lead & follow.
Keith

[Dance Demon]

Originally posted by Gus
RocknRoll is DEAD!


WANNA BET!!!!!!!
:devil:

[Gus]

Originally posted by Dance Demon
WANNA BET!!!!!!!
:devil:
Yo Demon ... my man! .....thought that line might provoke some response:wink:

Definitely off topic so no doubt we can re-run the old arguments in the 'DJ Den'?

[Dance Demon]

Originally posted by Gus
Yo Demon ... my man! .....thought that line might provoke some response:wink:

Definitely off topic so no doubt we can re-run the old arguments in the 'DJ Den'?

Sounds good to me:grin:

[Ste]

I did not win TAC on Saturday

( I am plugging Sheriff for some tips...the man is brilliant on the Dance with a Stanger )

...boo hoo but apart from my trophy winning kebab exploits with Elliot and Della on Saturday night, there is one prize I would like to win namely that i guessed correctly the outcome of the Advanced competition...Will can verify this.

I think I deserve a £5 WH SMiths token or something. Or a decent kebab.........Grrrr I spent so much time on the bog in Blackpool Tower and I didn't even get up to the top!!!!Or partake in the tea!


Scouse Mouse

PS well done Mr Geary and Lilly ...you were truly amazing and have taken the dance on to a different level..and congrats to my mates Elliott and Della! You blew me away ( I don't mean the kebab) and I thought your first round was breathtaking...brilliant.

Hard luck Janine and Clayton, you were brilliant.

And as for my mate Debstar...........baby, you shone!!! And those shoes....!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Elliot, let's hit Crigglestone...it's obviously a great training place... again....hehehehe

By the way Lampert...you were so funny it was unfair!

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Graham W
The couple in white were outclassed in the first round by a couple in round 1 who didnt progress in silver (I'm biased)

Thought we were the only ones in silver ;)

[TheTramp]

By the way Lampert...you were so funny it was unfair!Thank you. But it's MR. Lampert to you :D

Steve

[Stuart M]

I'm surprised no-one has yet mentioned what was clearly the most outrageous decision of the competition...the failure of the "St. Trinian's" Double Trouble team to get to the final. Instead we got two rugby players and a drag act :tears:

OK, so maybe there were better dancers, but where I was sitting, half the audience really didn't care...:wink:


Seriously though, the decisions seemed OK. My only quibble was, the judges were viewing most of the competitions from a different angle from the rest of us. Maybe this explains some of the mysteries?

[Gus]

Originally posted by Stuart M
My only quibble was, the judges were viewing most of the competitions from a different angle from the rest of us. Maybe this explains some of the mysteries? A good point. The aim of the competitors is to 'show' their dancing to the judges. In all other competitions, the judges are in the same vicinity as the audience so the dancers are also dancing to them aswell. At C2D you are in the unusual situation of having to keep your back to the audience of you want to try to project to the judges panel ...... don't think thats such a good thing.

[Divissima]

I agree with much of what is being said about the judging. I think it was fair, with a few decisions I didn't wholly agree with (although all in the right 'ball-park').

I think the problem with judging criteria lies in the very nature of modern jive. IMHO one of the strengths of modern jive is that there are almost as many acceptable styles as there are dancers - from the bouncier 'jivier' dancers, to 'ballroom/latin' style dancers, to funkier 'hip-hop' style dancers. You can more or less borrow/import moves from every style of dance ever created. And you can modern jive to almost any kind of music.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not sure it can be possible to be more 'scientific' about judging - there is always going to be a big subjective element in deciding between dancers who are otherwise matched. I certainly wouldn't fancy the job!

[Will]

Yeah, what Gus and Divissima said.

I think it's better when the judges are constantly moving around the dance floor like at Hammersmith. Gives them a chance to see more of the competitors close up.

[Stuart M]

Originally posted by Will
Yeah, what Gus and Divissima said.

I think it's better when the judges are constantly moving around the dance floor like at Hammersmith. Gives them a chance to see more of the competitors close up.

Downside of that though, is that it makes the judging intrusive for the spectators. At least with the judges being static, those of us who don't really have a clue about judging can simply enjoy watching the competitors, without being constantly "aware" that judging is going on.

Personally my preference would be for static judges, but in a position more related to the audience. And if there's an issue with, say, loud cheering near the judging podium influencing the result :wink: , split the judges into 2 or even 3 groups.

[TheTramp]

I'm not sure that I like the judges moving around either. For a few reasons.

Firstly, in a competition, I guess that you're performing mainly for the judges. So, if you don't know where they are, it makes that more difficult.

Secondly, it makes it harder for the judges to see what's going on all the time. Ideally, they should be able to see all the competitors all the time (although, obviously they will be watching one couple at any given time). Which is a lot harder if they are down at eye level on the other side of the dance floor.

Thirdly, it can be slightly more obtrusive for the competitiors - having other people wandering around the dance floor.

I think that it isn't a good idea though, having the judges on the other side of the floor from the audience. At Blackpool, for the showcase, all the judges sat at the second 'platform' in amongst the audience. Is there any reason why they couldn't judge everything from there??

Steve

[Keith]

Hi Steve,
Good points!
The reason they cannot stay there is the comfort factor. Behind the stage there are toilets, drinks & food, with such a tight time schedule they require as many home comforts as possible & as close to hand as possible.
With 8 hours of judging I think being perched on a mini stage in with the audience may become a little stifling. :sick:

Keith

[Will]

Originally posted by Stuart M
Downside of that though, is that it makes the judging intrusive for the spectators. At least with the judges being static, those of us who don't really have a clue about judging can simply enjoy watching the competitors, without being constantly "aware" that judging is going on.Whilst I agree with this, I think it is the lesser of the 2 evils. I'd rather have the judges walking around the edge of the floor (so they don't get in the way of the competitors) and only occasionally block your view of the dances (never if you are above ground level) and not have the competitors doing all there big moves with there backs to you.

I also think that as it's a freestyle competition it should be made to ressemble normal freestyle as much as possible. And as in freestyle you are constantly facing different directions, I think it's a little artificial and inhibitive to the dancers to keep having to face a certain direction when doing their moves.

After all, these judges are getting paid loads of cash as it is, I'm sure they can haul themselves around the dance floor now and then. :wink:

[Will]

Originally posted by Will
After all, these judges are getting paid loads of cash as it is,

How else do you think I got to the final of the Lucky Dip?:wink:

[David Franklin]

Originally posted by Will
How else do you think I got to the final of the Lucky Dip?:wink:
Well actually, I thought you'd done it by promising to set them up with the Wongster...

Dave

[Keith]

Whilst I agree with this, I think it is the lesser of the 2 evils. I'd rather have the judges walking around the edge of the floor (so they don't get in the way of the competitors) and only occasionally block your view of the dances (never if you are above ground level) and not have the competitors doing all there big moves with there backs to you.

Hi Will, this is my personal view & not a company stance.
When I danced at Hammersmith where the judges were walking round I felt there were two problems.
1. I was only ever performing to one or two judges at a time, as they circled the floor, which made placing more spectacular moves an almost impossible task. You could never create the situation where you had almost all of the judges attention at the same time, whether I had my back to them or not, would have mattered less, than trying to pull out move after move so each Judge could see a reasonable combination as they circled the floor.
It got to the point that I had no Idea who had seen me & who hadn't?
2. The above then upsets the flow of the dance & breaks the dancers concentration, making the dance more stunted.

This obviously led to my not winning a thing! :wink:
Keith

[Chicklet]

Originally posted by Gus
[

Definitely off topic so no doubt we can re-run the old arguments in the 'DJ Den'? [/B]

I am so proud of myself for figuring out how to quote.

Where is the DJ Den and do you let girlies in???????

[TheTramp]

Nope.

No girlies.

DJing is for real men only. :devil:

Waits for the flames :D

Steve

[Chicklet]

not even to sit at your feet and swoon for the duration of the performance and thereafter to dust and put everything back into alphabetical order within sub-genres (except compilations have to be chronological I know, I know) while phoning for pizza and lager?

No flames, bellicosity does not become the fairer sex.

[Dancing Veela]

Originally posted by Gus

BUT ... tell me how having to dance with you more than once could be anything other than a pure delight???? :innocent:

Oh Gus, it's so obvious you've never danced with me if you need to ask that question :wink:

But I promise I'll be gentle with you!

DVx

[TheTramp]

I'm not even going to dare to respond to that one Chicklet. I have at least some idea of self-preservation left.

Do I know you??

Steve

[Chicklet]

FEARTIE.

No, you don't know me........ but I know you. We exchanged a jocular pleasantry on Saturday but mostly I was frightfully well behaved due to an overwhelming desire to cry with delight on finding that such an event and group of people existed. One just wishes one had had the foresight to carry a watermelon

Delight obviously tinged with aforememntioned dismay that for 16 hours they played neither Joe Turner nor the stunning uptempo Sam Cooke version of Tennessee Waltz (in car track of the week) that I was gagging for.

Do you think you know me?

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Keith

Hi Will, this is my personal view & not a company stance.
When I danced at Hammersmith where the judges were walking round I felt there were two problems.
1. I was only ever performing to one or two judges at a time, as they circled the floor, which made placing more spectacular moves an almost impossible task. You could never create the situation where you had almost all of the judges attention at the same time, whether I had my back to them or not, would have mattered less, than trying to pull out move after move so each Judge could see a reasonable combination as they circled the floor.
It got to the point that I had no Idea who had seen me & who hadn't?
2. The above then upsets the flow of the dance & breaks the dancers concentration, making the dance more stunted. [/B]

It was only after the competition that someone told me that the judges expect you to dance at them, smile at them, do moves towards them etc.. What you say confirms this is the norm, but I certainly had no idea this was the case. I wish someone had told me as Ive never danced 'for' anyone before and Im generally unaware of whats going on around me (up to a point, i know when other dancers are in my 'space' obviously). Can I use this as an excuse for not getting through the 1st round :).

[TheTramp]

FEARTIE.Who??

No, you don't know me........ but I know you. Ooooh. This sounds scary!!

One just wishes one had had the foresight to carry a watermelon Ummm. Is this some bizarre Scottish ritual that I don't know about?!?

Delight obviously tinged with aforememntioned dismay that for 16 hours they played neither Joe Turner nor the stunning uptempo Sam Cooke version of Tennessee Waltz (in car track of the week) that I was gagging for.Did you go and ask anyone to play it??

Do you think you know me?Ummm. Nope. Don't think so. There were quite a few Scottish people there that I didn't know. You'll have to say hello next time I'm in Glasgow...

Steve

[Dave Hancock]

Steve,

Are you trying to say people down south don't carry watermelon's - like hello, how crazy are you and what do you carry instead?

[Dance Demon]

Originally posted by Chicklet

Where is the DJ Den and do you let girlies in???????

Hi Chicklet and welcome to the forum....
The DJ booth is found near the bottom of the main menu......and since you are a lover of Big Joe Turner, and that genre of music, you are indeed welcome to join in....I need as much help as I can get converting Gus into a real jive fan :grin: just be careful you don't get infected by his club music bug:wink:
DD:devil:

[DavidB]

It was only after the competition that someone told me that the judges expect you to dance at themSorry - don't think you should have to do this.

In showcase, you should dance to the audience, and the judges should be part of the audience. We have done competitions where there were 4 judges on the stage, and about 500 people surrounding the other 3 sides of the floor. We danced to the audience. Fortunately this seems to be changing - the judges seem to be placed at the front of the audience now.

In freestyle I think you should dance to the music, and present it to the audience. The judges should be irrelevant - you shouldn't base when to do a 'flash' move on who might be watching. Personally I'm not going to change a fundamental part of my dancing (ie trying to dance to the music) for the benefit of someone who is getting paid to watch me. But then again I couldn't care less how far I get in a freestyle comp - I do it for fun.



I understand about the judges getting tired - all of them looked worn out by the end of the day. Do they all judge every single round? I would have thought you could have a rota for the rounds, and get them all to judge the final.

David

[Divissima]

Originally posted by DavidB
Sorry - don't think you should have to do this.

In freestyle I think you should dance to the music, and present it to the audience. The judges should be irrelevant - you shouldn't base when to do a 'flash' move on who might be watching.
David

I take your point, but they aren't mutually exclusive!

I guess it's human nature to look back at the people who are looking at you. And if the judges are in one direction, the audience in the other, when you pull off a big move your back will always be to one or the other category. (Hence much of the above discussion.)

I would say that it can be effective - I managed to get some of the judges to smile back at me during some of the rounds. I think the difference it can make is in projecting your performance energy outwards (if that makes sense). As you say, it depends how seriously you want to take the competition - and working the crowd can be brilliant too

:nice:

[Graham W]

....re music - thought Jon Brett's set at the end was awesome..

[Chicklet]

Originally posted by TheTramp
[B
Ummm. Is this some bizarre Scottish ritual that I don't know about?!?

It's perhaps the ultimate naff throwaway chick flick reference that I'm sure most of the girls at least will recognise???

Did you go and ask anyone to play it??

I was far too much in awe of all the fantastic dancers to move very much from my seat let alone ask for music!! Maybe next year if I practice every night between now and then I will be brave enough to ask for something and actually be able to do it justice on the floor!!



[/B]

[Dance Demon]

Originally posted by Graham W
....re music - thought Jon Brett's set at the end was awesome...I'll second that:D ...by the way does anyone know what the last dance track was that he played before he played Perfect Day?
He did tell me but I forgot:sorry (having one of those senior moments:D ) It sounded a bit like Sam Cooke, and had some nice brass sections in it.
:cheers:

[bigdjiver]

Unfortunately I could not make Blackpool. I have done DWAS at the Le Jive comp twice. The first time I spent the warm-up showing my partner my hot moves, and so got eliminated in 30 sec, the time taken for the judge to get around the dance floor to me, looking where she was going, not at us. So I sympathise with
"If you are going to have a warm-up dance, then it should be just that. It shouldn't be judged"
The next year my partner said "I wish I had not entered this, get us out of it as soon as possible." We lasted 50 seconds that time.
" A friend of mine was 'tapped through' in the first round of the TAC after he'd done one move." Last year at the Ceroc champs I picked two of the top three before the music started, so I can understand the judges saving time.
If my memory serves me right I was one of those that suggested the format of TAC be changed from "Tap out" to "Tap through". I would be interested to hear opinions on this format.

[Bill]

Originally posted by bigdjiver
If my memory serves me right I was one of those that suggested the format of TAC be changed from "Tap out" to "Tap through". I would be interested to hear opinions on this format. A much better idea as it means everyone gets a whole song even if they don't make the second round.

My only 'problem' is that it's clear by the time it took some judges to tap a few couples that they had been judging the 'warm up' round as I heard that some folk went through after only a couple of moves. The other issue I always feel is that it is easier to recognise dancers the judges know or know are good so it might be easier to look for those 'well known' faces and even if they don't dance as well as they can they might still go through.

I'm not suggesting that this happened but with the time the judges have it might be possible to allow a dancer through knowing he or she is very good even though they might have had a mediocre round.

However, I've already said that I agree with most of the decisions this year although having just discussed some judging decisions with a freind there are still some questions I'd gave regrading the judging criteria eg can couples lose marks and if so how ?? Would a couple be disqualified if the woman has both feet off the floor or just lose marks ? If a couple are apart for more than 8 beats are they automatically disqualified ??

In any of the events would couples lose marks for clearly choreographed moves ?? The criteria certainly helps but I'm still not sure whether costumes are really important or where you can gain the 'extra' marks to do really well.

However, as I've said .it was a great day and the judges must have been exhausted at the end of the comps.....

[DavidB]

Originally posted by bigdjiver
Last year at the Ceroc champs I picked two of the top three before the music started, so I can understand the judges saving time.I can understand this - I was dancing next to Sherif at Blackpool, and my first thought was 'Ok, who is going to come second?' But the judges should be very conscious of ensuring it is a dance competition, not a reputation competition. (From what I saw, I think they managed to do this very well.)

You might very well come to exactly the same conclusion at the end of the song as you had at the start. It just makes everyone feel they have a fair chance if the judges delay their taps to the end of the song. And it means the audience get to see the best dancers for longer.

David