Which foot to step back with in the first move?

[Andy McGregor]

So, which is it? Ceroc teachers keep saying it doesn't matter. But does it matter to you?

[Donna]

So, which is it? Ceroc teachers keep saying it doesn't matter. But does it matter to you?

Yep it does!!! Theeeeee "RIGHT!"

[Andy McGregor]

Yep it does!!! Theeeeee "RIGHT!"Hey, that was quick. You posted before I'd finished writing the poll questions :worthy:

[LMC]

It doesn't matter

If the dance starts with a first move, then I will be on my right foot, having stepped back on my right. If a first move is led after a return, I will be on my left foot, having stepped back after the return. Either way, a first move can be led so I can follow it.

Which foot to step back with when starting a dance is a different issue altogether...

[Donna]

Hey, that was quick. You posted before I'd finished writing the poll questions :worthy:

Bullseye!:D

[clevedonboy]

I've gone for "right" and "I'm a smurf" as I believe us people who are a certain height should stick together.

I'm disappointed that the option for "right left triple step triple step" wasn't included though

[doc martin]

That was an easy question. I have 2 left feet. Deciding which left foot to step back on though, now you're asking.
4417

[LMC]

Obvious, the other left :rolleyes:

[Dreadful Scathe]

actually i step back on either foot depending on which type of first move im doing :)

Im going to try both at the same time :)

[Donna]

That was an easy question. I have 2 left feet. Deciding which left foot to step back on though, now you're asking.
4417




ER the left!

[Lory]

Pm from me to Kev

Hi

I know this sounds silly but all this talk of which foot people step back on, being right or wrong, has me baffled. :confused:

I THINK I step back on my left during a class but I can't for the life of me think which foot I step back on during freestyling.. any idea?:flower:
Kev to me


You step back on either, and sometimes both at the same time! :rolleyes: :devil:

:blush: :rofl:

[doc martin]

ER the left!
Looking from your perspective or mine?

[Donna]

Looking from your perspective or mine?

yours!

[LMC]

NO! Don't look at the feet, just feeeeeeel the feet. It's the Way.

[Donna]

NO! Don't look at the feet, just feeeeeeel the feet. It's the Way.


You should never look at your feet anyway as it can make you lose your balance. However you do see a lot of beginners looking at their feet..something which my dance teacher tells them not to do. Eye contact is very important.

[doc martin]

yours!
So that would be the left foot to the left of my other left foot, not the left foot to the right of my left foot?

I don't think you can expect me to figure that out and lead at the same time.

Hang on. Too many words there.

I don't think you can expect me to lead.

Nope, still too many.

I don't think.4418

[doc martin]

Eye contact is very important.
Not as important as telling your feet what to do.

[LMC]

doc martin, I have the strongest feeling that you're not treating this topic with the gravity and seriousness that it deserves.

It's perfectly simple. The right foot is the right foot and the left foot is the wrong foot because it's not the right foot. Which means that if you have two left feet, then the right foot will be the left foot and the other left foot is not the right foot. The left foot to the left is the left foot not the right foot, which means that the left foot to the right is the right foot. Except it's the left foot, which means it's not right.

Clear?

[doc martin]

doc martin, I have the strongest feeling that you're not treating this topic with the gravity and seriousness that it deserves.
Gravity, now that definitely is a problem. That's where my dancing really falls down. But where would we be without it? In space. And it's all very well Van Morrison talking about moon dancing, but have you ever tried it. You step back on one of your left feet and by the time your foot has hit the ground, you're already three beats behind.

It's perfectly simple. The right foot is the right foot and the left foot is the wrong foot because it's not the right foot. Which means that if you have two left feet, then the right foot will be the left foot and the other left foot is not the right foot. The left foot to the left is the left foot not the right foot, which means that the left foot to the right is the right foot. Except it's the left foot, which means it's not right.

Clear?
Yeah... um.... well.... yeah, definitely... but... um.... what if I'm facing the other way?

[David Bailey]

The foot I lead you to step back on.

If I'm not leading it, don't do it.

What makes this a complex concept? :confused:

(Yep, I voted for all 4 :) )

[ShinyWeeStar]

It's perfectly simple. The right foot is the right foot and the left foot is the wrong foot because it's not the right foot. Which means that if you have two left feet, then the right foot will be the left foot and the other left foot is not the right foot. The left foot to the left is the left foot not the right foot, which means that the left foot to the right is the right foot. Except it's the left foot, which means it's not right.

Clear?
:respect: :worthy: :rofl:

[Donna]

Yeah... um.... well.... yeah, definitely... but... um.... what if I'm facing the other way?


:rofl:

[ChrisA]

The right foot is the right foot and the left foot is the wrong foot because it's not the right foot.
Exactly. Why do you think the phrase "two left feet" has come to be used in the context of rubbish dancers, anyway?

It's not like they say "oh, I can't dance, I have two right feet".

Duh... :rolleyes:

[Andreas]

If I'm not leading it, don't do it.
Yeah, but not all followers are male! :rofl:

[Lynn]

The foot I lead you to step back on.

If I'm not leading it, don't do it.The answer!

For me anyway - but this means I have to be really following properly, and sometimes I'm not. (OK, maybe I should make that 'often' :sad: ) And the guy has to be leading me to step back on a certain foot and mostly he's not. So in practice it doesn't tend to work that way.

(Next time we have a dance DJ, try this and see what I do please?)

[Yliander]

So, which is it? Ceroc teachers keep saying it doesn't matter. But does it matter to you? in a basic first move the follower steps back left and the lead back right

[LMC]

Gravity, now that definitely is a problem. That's where my dancing really falls down. But where would we be without it? In space. And it's all very well Van Morrison talking about moon dancing, but have you ever tried it. You step back on one of your left feet and by the time your foot has hit the ground, you're already three beats behind.
See ChrisA for moondancing lessons. ChrisA can do *everything*


Yeah... um.... well.... yeah, definitely... but... um.... what if I'm facing the other way?
Well, don't.

Or if you must, then stand on the ceiling and the same instructions will work :thumbs up:

[Andreas]

in a basic first move the follower steps back left and the lead back right
That is, when they reverse roles? ;)

[Gadget]

Are we talking from a lead or a follower's perspective?

Generally I lead the follower to step back on their right, but I have been known to lead them into a first move with a step forward on their right. There is also the option of leading them to stay put while I step into/round them.
So most followers will be stepping on their right... Unless I lead an inverted (left handed) first move. Then they will be led to step back on their left.

As to my footwork, I will step back or forward on any foot (sometimes even my partners :blush: ) depending on what variation I am doing.

{Spooky - I was just thinking on the drive home "I don't think I can remember how to do a standard first move any more :what:" There was one in the beginners class and I think I got the routine correct once all night! :tears:}

[Andy McGregor]

in a basic first move the follower steps back left and the lead back right Of course they do it the other way around in Australia - that's because their water goes down the plug-hole the opposite way around. They probably do their semi-circle to the right as well :wink:

[Yliander]

They probably do their semi-circle to the right as well :wink:who's right?:wink:

[Andy McGregor]

who's right?:wink:The person whose semi-circle goes to the right. Over here it's the follower. Unless you're Viktor and then it's the other way around - but he probably picked up his habit on his visit to Australia when he was emptying his bath :confused:

[Yliander]

The person whose semi-circle goes to the right. Over here it's the follower. Unless you're Viktor and then it's the other way around - but he probably picked up his habit on his visit to Australia when he was emptying his bath :confused:If a guy does a semi circle to start here it goes to my right - assuming a guys left to ladies right hand hold

however the semi circle seems to be a dying breed here

[Andy McGregor]

however the semi circle seems to be a dying breed here:worthy: :worthy: :worthy:

You'll be telling us next that people don't bounce their hands to the beat and dance in giant circles :innocent:

[Yliander]

:worthy: :worthy: :worthy:

You'll be telling us next that people don't bounce their hands to the beat and dance in giant circles :innocent:promise me a dance or 3 i'll tell you anything you want to hear

[Andy McGregor]

Tell me I'm pretty and you can dance with me as long as you like :wink:

[Yliander]

Tell me I'm pretty and you can dance with me as long as you like :wink: I can go one better than pretty - from this perspective you are beautiful :flower:

[pjay]

They probably do their semi-circle to the right as well :wink:


Semi-circle, what's that?

[pjay]

If a guy does a semi circle to start here it goes to my right - assuming a guys left to ladies right hand hold

however the semi circle seems to be a dying breed here

Stink! She beat me to it...

[Lynn]

If a guy does a semi circle to start here it goes to my right - assuming a guys left to ladies right hand hold

however the semi circle seems to be a dying breed hereOK, getting completely sidetracked (what's new?) - on my massive experience of about 3 weeks learning lead in beginners, the semi circle seems to hinder any connection I might have with the follower, not help it. Its likely this is because I'm a hopeless lead of course, but to me a simple gentle push back creates more connection and seems to 'lead' the follower back, whereas the semi circle doesn't seem to actually 'lead' but acts a signal? Is that correct?

(I really don't like signals.:( )

[El Salsero Gringo]

OK, getting completely sidetracked (what's new?) - on my massive experience of about 3 weeks learning lead in beginners, the semi circle seems to hinder any connection I might have with the follower, not help it. Its likely this is because I'm a hopeless lead of course, but to me a simple gentle push back creates more connection and seems to 'lead' the follower back, whereas the semi circle doesn't seem to actually 'lead' but acts a signal? Is that correct?

(I really don't like signals.:( )Oh well. Here goes. If you tell people just to push then (especially if they're new) they'll just give you an uncomfortable shove. If you tell people to draw a semicircle and lead the lady to step back then they can do a nice smooth push as the hands are moving. Try the difference.

[TheTramp]

Uh huh. It's a signal, not a lead. And it's completely un-needed. (See, I can agree with Andy sometimes*).

I've even seen some Ceroc teachers who don't get their classes to do it anymore!! :respect:





Edit: And disagree with ESG :wink:
Edit2: *Apparently not!

[Andy McGregor]

OK, getting completely sidetracked (what's new?) - on my massive experience of about 3 weeks learning lead in beginners, the semi circle seems to hinder any connection I might have with the follower, not help it. Its likely this is because I'm a hopeless lead of course, but to me a simple gentle push back creates more connection and seems to 'lead' the follower back, whereas the semi circle doesn't seem to actually 'lead' but acts a signal? Is that correct?

(I really don't like signals.:( )When Nigel Anderson ran our teacher's training course for the first time I was very suprised that he recommended the semi-circle for beginners. He was adamant about it. What he says is that it has no place in actual dancing, but beginners need to do it to indicate to their partners that they're about to start dancing. The theory is that the gentle push back, tension and compression are a step too far for people in their first few weeks.

[Lynn]

Oh well. Here goes. If you tell people just to push then (especially if they're new) they'll just give you an uncomfortable shove. If you tell people to draw a semicircle and lead the lady to step back then they can do a nice smooth push as the hands are moving. Try the difference.I'm speaking as a beginner lead, not a follow - I don't feel I am leading them to step back with a semi circle. Any complete beginners I have seen using the semi-circle don't give a nice smooth push - they give no push at all and seem to simply use it as a signal.

IMO if someone is giving an uncomfortable push at the start of a dance are also likely to give an uncomfortable pull, then an uncomfortable push etc throughout the dance, not just at the start. A fairly common beginner habit that can be smoothed out in revision class and with taxis.

[ChrisA]

the semi circle seems to hinder any connection I might have with the follower, not help it. Its likely this is because I'm a hopeless lead of course, but to me a simple gentle push back creates more connection and seems to 'lead' the follower back, whereas the semi circle doesn't seem to actually 'lead' but acts a signal? Is that correct?

Indeed, but it's worse than a signal.

It actually hides any lead there might be, by waggling the follower's arm in any direction other than the one you want it to go in, and it consequently makes it harder for her to recognise an actual signal.

It's also virtually impossible to develop any resistance with a semicircle, and encourages spaghetti arms.

IMHO, the semicircle is the single biggest inhibitor of the development of early lead and follow concepts.

[Lynn]

The theory is that the gentle push back, tension and compression are a step too far for people in their first few weeks.I can see a certain amount of sense in that, in theory. And that would be why it doesn't feel right to me as a beginner lead as I'm not a beginner dancer. But it mustn't be explained that way as I've experienced dancing with leads who are definitely not in their first few weeks but still use a semi-circle at the start - and the first 'connection' I feel as a follow is the 'pull' forward after the step back.

[TheTramp]

When Nigel Anderson ran our teacher's training course for the first time I was very suprised that he recommended the semi-circle for beginners. He was adamant about it. What he says is that it has no place in actual dancing, but beginners need to do it to indicate to their partners that they're about to start dancing. The theory is that the gentle push back, tension and compression are a step too far for people in their first few weeks.
Don't think that I agree with Nigel here.

While it may well be true that tension and compression are a step too far for some (most?) people, I don't think that many people would fail to cope with a gentle push back.

And I think that a gentle push back (dare we mention the word 'lead' here?) is much preferable to the semi-circle...


Oh well. Here goes. If you tell people just to push then (especially if they're new) they'll just give you an uncomfortable shove. If you tell people to draw a semicircle and lead the lady to step back then they can do a nice smooth push as the hands are moving. Try the difference.
I think that the thing is that most people don't "do a nice smooth push as the hands are moving". They just draw the semicircle, and expect the girls to step back. Which, to be fair, is exactly what's taught.

[El Salsero Gringo]

I'm speaking as a beginner lead, not a follow - I don't feel I am leading them to step back with a semi circle. Any complete beginners I have seen using the semi-circle don't give a nice smooth push - they give no push at all and seem to simply use it as a signal.

IMO if someone is giving an uncomfortable push at the start of a dance are also likely to give an uncomfortable pull, then an uncomfortable push etc throughout the dance, not just at the start. A fairly common beginner habit that can be smoothed out in revision class and with taxis.It was just a thought. In so far as I ever do a semi-circle, I only use it as part of a "pick up the compression and push back". Perhaps I just assume everyone does likewise.

[ChrisA]

When Nigel Anderson ran our teacher's training course for the first time I was very suprised that he recommended the semi-circle for beginners. He was adamant about it. What he says is that it has no place in actual dancing, but beginners need to do it to indicate to their partners that they're about to start dancing. The theory is that the gentle push back, tension and compression are a step too far for people in their first few weeks.
I'm quite shocked to hear that. I'd certainly agree that anything much in the way of formal beginners class teaching on tension and compression would be too much, but I still think the semicircle hinders far more than it helps.

In a class context, I think Mike Ellard achieves the best compromise I've seen - I haven't been to his classes for a while, but when I did, it was "one and step back", or if he was in a more flamboyant mood, "Bold, and step back".

The thing is, in the class, you know when to start dancing cos you're counted in. And I've frequently watched beginners as they start to freestyle. The semicircle gets so much attention that it takes too long, so they start off well behind the beat.

A step back without compression is better than one with a semicircle - the girl can see when the guy steps back.

Much better to have nothing, that you can then replace with tension/compression, than to have something which is just pants, that you have to unlearn before you can learn to do it right.

ESG's


If you tell people to draw a semicircle and lead the lady to step back then they can do a nice smooth push as the hands are moving.
is all very well - I'm sure he's capable of combining a stylish semi-circle with an actual lead, but beginners often don't do it.

They do a semicircle, and then step back without leading.

It's just awful.:mad:

[Lynn]

It was just a thought. In so far as I ever do a semi-circle, I only use it as part of a "pick up the compression and push back". Perhaps I just assume everyone does likewise.But if you 'pick up the compression and push back', then why is there the need for the lead to move their hand round in a semi-circle? :confused:

I'm finding that if I'm thinking about the semi-circle then that's detracting from my focus on the compression and is in fact diffusing any compression with the sideways movement. Maybe that's just me.

[El Salsero Gringo]

But if you 'pick up the compression and push back', then why is there the need for the lead to move their hand round in a semi-circle? :confused:
I just think it's easier to do a gentle lead rather than a shove if your hands are moving sideways in a kind of polishing motion. You don't really want to push her hand back towards her, you want to increase the compression, for her to notice and to do likewise, so that your hands stay midway between you as you both step back. Something tells me that maintaining that kind of equilibrium is going to be easier if the hands are already in some kind of motion as your brains are already 'controlling' the muscles. So that motion has to be sideways. Maybe I'm just overanalysing.

[Lynn]

I just think it's easier to do a gentle lead rather than a shove if your hands are moving sideways in a kind of polishing motion. You don't really want to push her hand back towards her, you want to increase the compression, for her to notice and to do likewise, so that your hands stay midway between you as you both step back. Something tells me that maintaining that kind of equilibrium is going to be easier if the hands are already in some kind of motion as your brains are already 'controlling' the muscles. So that motion has to be sideways. Maybe I'm just overanalysing.Help! If I try to think about even half of that I'll definitely get confused.

I'm a really inexperienced lead (about 3 classes and two freestyle dances as I've been on taxi duty so focused on the guys). I'll try semi-circle and without semi-circle tonight and see what works for me and will also see if any beginner leads put any compression at all into their semi-circle.

[Donna]

Of course they do it the other way around in Australia - that's because their water goes down the plug-hole the opposite way around. They probably do their semi-circle to the right as well :wink:


:rofl: That crossed my mind too! :rofl:

If the lady steps back on her left to start with, then it would be difficult. E.g... lets take a look at the first move.

on count one - she will be stepping back on left
Two - forward on her right
Three - Starts to step into his side on left
Four - Steps right in place

How can she now step back on the right foot for a first move unless she steps back on her left (which wouldn't look right)

Ladies who step back on their left to start with must do this:

One - Step back on left
Two - Step forward on Right
Three - Start stepping in on left
Four - Hold on left foot for one beat/or tap right toe next to left

and then step around and back on her outside foot.

:confused:

[Sparkles]

Just to get out of the whole semi-circle argument...

Stepping back on a first move:
The answer is - the foot you step back on will depend on whether you're a leader or a follower and what sort of first move you're doing - therefore you will step back on whichever foot is not currently supporting your bodyweight at the point of leading/being lead into the backward step.
:what:

[LMC]

EDIT (in response to Donna's post, cross-posted with Sparkles)

But in freestyle, you're starting from left foot back after a return.

So from left foot back (or weight on left foot) - count 1:

count 2 - step into the guy's side on the right
3 - bring left foot to meet, switch weight
4 - turn out on right

Easy.

[Donna]

EDIT (in response to Donna's post, cross-posted with Sparkles)

But in freestyle, you're starting from left foot back after a return.

So from left foot back (or weight on left foot) - count 1:

count 2 - step into the guy's side on the right
3 - bring left foot to meet, switch weight
4 - turn out on right

Easy.

So the answer is, depending on which move you did before, depends on which foot you have no choice but to step back on and if led into a first move after, well at least there are different ways it can be done from the way it is taught.

[LMC]

Exactly - which is why the "which foot?" question for a first move is totally pointless.

Unless it's a lesson, the follower does not know that a first move will be led just from a step back - and even if she does know what's coming next, because it's a lesson, she should be following the lead anyway. If the first move is the first move of the lesson, then the follower will have stepped back right. However, if the first move follows a return, then she will already be back on the left foot, as above.

"Which foot to step back on for the start of a dance?" is a good question, and the answer to that, for me, is the right foot.

[Donna]

Exactly - which is why the "which foot?" question for a first move is totally pointless.

:yeah: So this thread stops here now then?



"Which foot to step back on for the start of a dance?" is a good question, and the answer to that, for me, is the right foot.[/QUOTE]

I'd say the same. Whichever feels more natural.

[LMC]

...totally pointless
:yeah: So this thread stops here now then?
Why should it, other threads don't :evil grin:

[Andy McGregor]

But in freestyle, you're starting from left foot back after a return.You're still doing returns in freestyle :confused:

IMHO dropping the return is the thing you do next after dropping the semi-circle.

a kind of polishing motion. But is is wax-on or wax-off? I suppose it depends on which way your water goes down the plug-hole.

On the subject of the semi-circle for beginners, I blow hot and cold on it. In the end I think either is probably OK. Currently my thinking is that a gentle push forward to create tension in a beginner isn't going to work as you're likely to have nothing to push against. It would be like bobbing for apples. So we have the wax-on movement with the left and wax-off with the right - which is entirely correct when you're left-handed as it feels like someone else when you wax-off ...

However, I think it's important to tell those in the intermediate lesson that the semi-circle is a bit like stabilisers on a bike. You need it while you're learning but it will make corners and steering difficult once you've got your balance.

[Donna]

Why should it, other threads don't :evil grin:[/QUOTE]


:D



But is is wax-on or wax-off? I suppose it depends on which way your water goes down the plug-hole.


:rofl:



On the subject of the semi-circle for beginners, I blow hot and cold on it. In the end I think either is probably OK.

I think it's ok just to start a dance but you see some dancers (this makes me cry till I'm drowning in them) semi circling everytime they step back. :rofl:

[ChrisA]

Unless it's a lesson, the follower does not know that a first move will be led just from a step back - and even if she does know what's coming next, because it's a lesson, she should be following the lead anyway. If the first move is the first move of the lesson, then the follower will have stepped back right. However, if the first move follows a return, then she will already be back on the left foot, as above.

In my experience of dancing with a number of excellent followers, they will often change their weight over at the end of a return or spin to the left, and still step back right.

It's certainly what I lead, so it's nice that they do it, but I tend to lead it with beginners as well, and they don't have much problem with it either.

Many people spin, and fail to stop the spin with their feet together, which makes it impossible to change the weight over to the other foot before stepping back.

[LMC]

You're still doing returns in freestyle :confused:
If they are led, yes

:innocent:

A follower who dances a lot of beginner leads will do a lot of returns in freestyle. Even some intermediates seem to find it impossible not to lead an automatic return - which can get quite amusing in intermediate lessons when they start "kicking themselves".

[Andy McGregor]

I think it's ok just to start a dance but you see some dancers (this makes me cry till I'm drowning in them) semi circling everytime they step back. :rofl:And that, students, is where the Ceroc Bounce comes from :innocent:

[Donna]

In my experience of dancing with a number of excellent followers, they will often change their weight over at the end of a return or spin to the left, and still step back right.

I tend to do this. If a single spin i step off on my right, then left then step back right. If doing a double or triple spin, I'll spin off on my right, then change the wait onto my left then back on the right. Depends what feels more comfortable for you.

[Lynn]

However, I think it's important to tell those in the intermediate lesson that the semi-circle is a bit like stabilisers on a bike. You need it while you're learning but it will make corners and steering difficult once you've got your balance.The only problem is (and this goes for returns as well) that many will have it a dance habit by that stage. Its this 'learning' then 'unlearning' thing again - I know a certain amount of it is necessary in any discipline but I like to see it cut back to a minimum as some people find 'unlearning' things frustrating. Letting people know early on that 'X' makes it easier to learn as a beginner but isn't a 'rule' that they must always follow might help?

[Donna]

The only problem is (and this goes for returns as well) that many will have it a dance habit by that stage. Its this 'learning' then 'unlearning' thing again - I know a certain amount of it is necessary in any discipline but I like to see it cut back to a minimum as some people find 'unlearning' things frustrating. Letting people know early on that 'X' makes it easier to learn as a beginner but isn't a 'rule' that they must always follow might help?

:yeah: You try reprogramming EVERYTHING you ever learnt so suitable for comps! Yes it is very hard!

[pjay]

Currently my thinking is that a gentle push forward to create tension in a beginner isn't going to work as you're likely to have nothing to push against.


I usually tell my beginner girls to "resist & step", and for the guys to build up the pressure into the girls hand... now I don't get to dance with my beginner boys very often :sad:, so I'm not too sure how well this works for them, but I find that the "resist and step" instruction for the girls seems to work wonders to get them to follow.

Then the learning later is about being able to control the level of that pressure and resistance to suit what is being done.

In saying this, I hear that classes over there tend to be large, and this may be something that is hard to communicate to a huge group.

[KMH]

I'm not keen on the semi-circle myself. The class I go to doesn't teach them they teach the (gentle!) push back, so if I'm dancing with someone who does the semi-circle I always feel like I've not been led to start with, which means I can be half a beat behind them and then have to do like a little hop thingy to catch up!

To answer the orignal question, I always step back on the right for a first move and I think I do all throughout a freestyle too it all really depends on how I'm being led I suppose :wink:

[Gadget]

Poll: To Draw or not to Draw the semi circle.... (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1880) Eight pages of (almost) relevant discussion on the subject.
(Lynn: I posed this question in about post 31...)

Another thing; when actually doing the 'semi-circle' - when do you step back?
* Semi-circle, and, (push)step back
* Semi-circle, and(push-begin step back), foot touches back
* Semi-circle, (push) step back
* Semi (push-begin step back) circle, foot touches back

("Push" being a gentle lead away)

[Donna]

[QUOTE=pjay]I usually tell my beginner girls to "resist & step", and for the guys to build up the pressure into the girls hand... now I don't get to dance with my beginner boys very often :sad:, so I'm not too sure how well this works for them, but I find that the "resist and step" instruction for the girls seems to work wonders to get them to follow.


Hmmm you sound a real pro. I don't think many teachers go into depth like that in the ceroc world but I'm sure you do it in a way where you aren't going on and on. This one could be put down on the 'restructering MJ thread'. :wink:

[pjay]

Hmmm you sound a real pro. I don't think many teachers go into depth like that in the ceroc world but I'm sure you do it in a way where you aren't going on and on. This one could be put down on the 'restructering MJ thread'. :wink:

:nice: thanks... Actually that's about close on all I say - along with small comments like "ladies, it's like playing hard to get" and "make him lead you" - I think it has a tendancy to start people off a bit heavy on their lead & follow, but I figure that is a better start point than "signal & know".

I find that I don't have to go on about it, but then I do also work in a small enough class environment that I can dance with most of the girls in the space of a couple of weeks, and that gives them a good opportunity to ask questions if they like - I think that this really aids the learning process.

I don't know that I'm a "real pro," I just try to stick with the things that I've seen work well, and leave out the stuff that I think is a waste of time.

[LMC]

In my experience of dancing with a number of excellent followers, they will often change their weight over at the end of a return or spin to the left, and still step back right.
I read the above this morning and was mortified... until I realised tonight that I do actually do this automatically these days and always step back right. Not that I'm claiming to be an excellent follower mind - I'd happily settle for mostly competent!

So I stand corrected :flower:

The right foot is the right foot and the left foot isn't the right foot...

[David Bailey]

The right foot is the right foot and the left foot isn't the right foot...
One indication of how my lead has improved since starting AT is that I can now lead most followers to step back on the foot I want them to step back on; and that includes sequential walks backwards.

[Tessalicious]

... I can now lead most followers to step back on the foot I want them to step back on; and that includes sequential walks backwards.Except those followers who forget to move their feet while you walk forwards, obviously... :blush:

[Donna]

:nice: thanks... Actually that's about close on all I say - along with small comments like "ladies, it's like playing hard to get" and "make him lead you" - I think it has a tendancy to start people off a bit heavy on their lead & follow, but I figure that is a better start point than "signal & know".

I find that I don't have to go on about it, but then I do also work in a small enough class environment that I can dance with most of the girls in the space of a couple of weeks, and that gives them a good opportunity to ask questions if they like - I think that this really aids the learning process.

I don't know that I'm a "real pro," I just try to stick with the things that I've seen work well, and leave out the stuff that I think is a waste of time.


I know in most classes it is important to point out the do's and don'ts incase anybody gets injured. E.g

Stay close together
Loose grip


That's all the beginners need to know before they start a routine. I do think it is a great idea to briefly describe what the lead should be doing and how the lady should follow. I think if you gave them any more than that to think about, they might find it hard.

[David Bailey]

Except those followers who forget to move their feet while you walk forwards, obviously... :blush:
Yeah - good safety tip, guys: even when dancing with a superb follower, it's possible to mess up a walk lead, so be careful you're not signalling a drop inadvertently. Coz that could be embarassing, if, say, you were busking at the time and being watched by a lot of people walking past.

Just a hypothetical example, there. :blush:

[stewart38]

Yeah - good safety tip, guys: even when dancing with a superb follower, it's possible to mess up a walk lead, so be careful you're not signalling a drop inadvertently. Coz that could be embarassing, if, say, you were busking at the time and being watched by a lot of people walking past.

Just a hypothetical example, there. :blush:


You have the foot is important camp and the foot isnt important camp

The foot is important camp has grown over the years

Those or me who are in the foot isnt important camp dont imply by being in that group there isnt a place for 'footwork'.

To say there is no 'footwork' in ceroc /jive is silly its the 'importance' we give to it

It can be important when your trying to lead a lady into some from of walk across the floor which ive recently tried. The best followers are of course those who are not worried what foot is going where (ie looking at the floor) but just following me on my stroll.

Even in competitions if you look good even if the footwork is out of sinc i guess you can score highly, unless the judges look for foot work :sad:

[Donna]

Yeah - good safety tip, guys: even when dancing with a superb follower, it's possible to mess up a walk lead, so be careful you're not signalling a drop inadvertently. Coz that could be embarassing, if, say, you were busking at the time and being watched by a lot of people walking past.

Just a hypothetical example, there. :blush:


Ooooh I would DIE! :o The one thing I fear when busking...falling over! Cringe cringe

[Rhythm King]

Ooooh I would DIE! :o The one thing I fear when busking...falling over! Cringe cringe

Except of course, busking while being filmed by a local TV crew and falling over :blush: . It was at Welyn Garden City on a marble floor in the shopping centre and it hurt like hell :tears: I was dancing with Robin (who's just had a baby) Nelson at the time and had to leap up and carry on, while smiling furiously!!!

[Donna]

Except of course, busking while being filmed by a local TV crew and falling over :blush: . It was at Welyn Garden City on a marble floor in the shopping centre and it hurt like hell :tears: I was dancing with Robin (who's just had a baby) Nelson at the time and had to leap up and carry on, while smiling furiously!!!

:rofl: Wish I was there to see it! :rofl: Sorry.:blush: :flower:

They could put it on you've been framed! You'd get, what, £100? I can't remember.

[Rhythm King]

:rofl: Wish I was there to see it! :rofl: Sorry.:blush: :flower:

They could put it on you've been framed! You'd get, what, £100? I can't remember.

What I got was a huge bruise at the base of my spine!:sad:

[Donna]

What I got was a huge bruise at the base of my spine!:sad:

I done that too..by doing long jump off my garden wall when I was younger and, not seeing a wet transparent bag on the bottom garden, slipped as a landed, went back up into the air and bummph..straight on the bottom of my spine. Couldn't sit down for weeks!!! Still suffer every now and then.