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killingtime
17th-February-2006, 02:11 AM
I was thinking about what makes a great evening and Ducasi recently seemed to be thinking the same (http://ducasi.org/blog/2006/02/15/freestyling-at-jjs/).

I therefore thought, since it wouldn't really take that much effort, I'd try collecting some information for my evening to see if I can't then data mine it and find out any correlation between particular factors in how enjoyable an evening is (yes I know I'm crazy).

Anyway I was thinking about the data I should collect and the sets involved. I've come up with:

Quantitative Data:

Enjoyment: {Fantastic, Great, Good, Average, Poor, Bad}
Good Dances: {Most, Lots, Few, None}
Poor Dances: {Most, Lots, Few, None}
Playful Dances: {Most, Lots, Few, None}
Regular Dancers: {Most, Lots, Few, None}
Venue: {Good, Average, Poor}
Floor Space: {Good, Average, Poor}
Music: {Fantastic, Great, Good, Average, Poor, Bad}
Own Skill: {Good, Average, Poor}

Meta-Data

Mood At Beginning?
Type of Dance (eg Modern Jive, West Coast Swing)
Type of Event {Weekender, Party, Class}
Date

The sets are sets of values that should be allowed (as it helps with analysis). Can anyone think of anything else worth collecting?

There was a reason I put this in the Geek's Corner.

Minnie M
17th-February-2006, 02:20 AM
We did this a couple of years ago
http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1479&highlight=What+makes
it will interesting to see if there are differences :really:

Lou
20th-February-2006, 02:01 PM
Meta-Data

:respect:

Excellent use of Metadata!

(BTW, can't come up with any other suggestions, but I like your method!)

ducasi
20th-February-2006, 02:19 PM
Well I've now looked at this in greater detail, and from my last post on my blog (http://ducasi.org/blog/2006/02/20/hands-on-in-stirling/)...

I’m coming to the conclusion that what makes a good night is simply the right music with the right dancers at the right time, in the right mood. With all those variables, it’s amazing I ever have a good time at all. Maybe I’m just easy pleased… :wink: In other words, I still don't have a clue. :confused:

KT, you've got to come to Stirling next week – it'll be the last one for a while.

killingtime
20th-February-2006, 03:03 PM
In other words, I still don't have a clue. :confused:

I'll see what results I can find. However I'd think I'd need a sample size of around 60 before I'll get anything useful.


KT, you've got to come to Stirling next week – it'll be the last one for a while.

It would be a nice way of finishing the super-dance week but I'll have to see if I can make it there. I should be doing AT so whether I can make both I'm not sure.

jivecat
20th-February-2006, 04:04 PM
I've come to the conclusion that good music (i.e. music that matches my personal taste, see Messrs Forster, Kenobe and Sheepman for examples) is the single most important factor, even more so than great partners. After all, if you're dancing with someone completely brilliant but the music's cr*p, there's not much to be done. Whereas, brilliant music can lift an average partner to something special.

killingtime
20th-February-2006, 04:30 PM
I've come to the conclusion that good music (i.e. music that matches my personal taste, see Messrs Forster, Kenobe and Sheepman for examples) is the single most important factor, even more so than great partners. After all, if you're dancing with someone completely brilliant but the music's cr*p, there's not much to be done. Whereas, brilliant music can lift an average partner to something special.

I'm not so sure (well for me at least). I think part of the problem is, if I'm having a great time I'll work with bad music, whereas if I'm having a bad time the bad music is obvious and I end up having a worse evening. This actually presents a problem for my analysis since it can be difficult to determine if dances are going well because of the other factors or if the other factors are better because the dances are going well.

Lou
20th-February-2006, 05:07 PM
Actually, I do have a few more factors.

Ratio of men to women.

Ratio of decent men to women. :whistle:

Number of times I 'm asked to dance.

Proportion of times that I get to dance with lovely man to lovely track, vs. times I have to dance with him to Shania or Elton, v.s number of dances with not quite so lovely man to lovely track.

Number of times squabbling with certain dance teacher. :rolleyes:

(Good post, Minnie! I see I said practically the same thing back then :D ).

LMC
20th-February-2006, 05:10 PM
I dunno... As my musicality is slowly improving (not difficult from where it was :rolleyes: ) I actually find it quite frustrating when a lead ploughs through breaks or pretzels their way through a blues-y track, however nice a dancer they are otherwise. A lot depends on my mood at the beginning of the evening - but that can be turned around.

One of the datasets that I think is missing is "gender balance". Even if I'm in a *very* good mood at the start of the evening, that can turn sour if I'm "frustrated" by not being able to dance to more than a couple of tracks in a row because there are too many women - especially if the music is superb.

Having pointed that one out, I think I'd better make a hasty exit...

EDIT: It's OK, Lou got there first, I'll hide behind her :D

ducasi
20th-February-2006, 05:37 PM
I guess KT and I are spoilt by rarely being affected by problems of gender balance. I don't think that the number of times I get asked affects me at all, as if it's a song I want to dance to, I won't wait to be asked...

I agree with jivecat to some extent, as music is a major factor, but I have had some really excellent dances to fairly average music – with the right dancer.

But even with the right music and the right dancers, and even (for me) the right gender balance, I've still had "just good" nights, rather that the really stormin' nights that happen from time to time.

There's a magic combination of factors which we need to find the formula for...

LMC
20th-February-2006, 05:40 PM
Just thought of another one: expectation. Particularly of "known" venues.

Cruella
20th-February-2006, 06:00 PM
Just thought of another one: expectation. Particularly of "known" venues.
This is so true. Don't know how many times i've been looking forward to that special night and been disappointed. It's great though when on the odd occasion that i really couldn't be bothered to go out, but had made the commitment to go and had a surprisingly good night.

Feelingpink
20th-February-2006, 06:08 PM
I was thinking about what makes a great evening ....[snip]

Can anyone think of anything else worth collecting?

...The complete set of Chippendales? (inspired by Tessalicious's thread upstairs)? Oh, a DANCE evening .. enough men, fresh play music, Manhattans and Christian Laboutin dance shoes.

Tones
20th-February-2006, 06:24 PM
As a beginner and on a steep learning curve I get a lot of enjoyment / frustration out of how much / little I think I have improved, both that evening specifically and since last time.

Then again I have been accused of being a self-improvement junkie, so I guess this factor depends on what your personal values are.

Improvement: {Loads, A little, Backwards}

Also making new friends is always nice...

Tiggerbabe
20th-February-2006, 08:20 PM
KT, you've got to come to Stirling next week
And not a Tina Arena track in sight :wink:

Would be great to see you there :hug:

ducasi
20th-February-2006, 08:33 PM
And not a Tina Arena track in sight :wink:
If you told him you'd play Chains by Tina Arena, he might be tempted to come. (Though I'd be tempted not to! :wink:)

Cruella
20th-February-2006, 08:36 PM
If you told him you'd play Chains by Tina Arena, he might be tempted to come. (Though I'd be tempted not to! :wink:)
:drool: How can you NOT like this track.:eek:

ducasi
20th-February-2006, 09:00 PM
:drool: How can you NOT like this track.:eek: OK, I've given it another listen, and perhaps I was a bit hasty... The start is just a bit of a yawn, and even when it gets going it seems to be lacking something...

That said, it sounds promising for dancing to, and it might grow on me, so maybe I wouldn't try to avoid it.

Think I prefer Now I Can Dance though (except it's about 2 minutes too long!) :D

TheTramp
21st-February-2006, 12:09 AM
How can you like EITHER of those?? :rolleyes:

jivecat
21st-February-2006, 09:45 AM
How can you like EITHER of those?? :rolleyes:

I really like Now I Can Dance, but not for dancing to. It's good for doing the ironing to, though.

killingtime
21st-February-2006, 01:46 PM
OK, I've given it another listen, and perhaps I was a bit hasty... The start is just a bit of a yawn, and even when it gets going it seems to be lacking something...

I find it smooth and yummy :drool: and very lovely to dance WCS or Blues to. I think it is the beat and the mood of the song that does it for me :D.

killingtime
21st-February-2006, 02:03 PM
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll add a few (though I've already started collecting data but I should be able to fill in the blanks or enter a NULL value to any column).

I've decided to quantify the mood at the beginning:

Mood: {Good, Average, Poor}

The expectation of the evening I like. If you have high expectations you can often be let down whereas if you aren't expecting much you might find it a surprise. It will be interesting to see if there is a correlation between Low Expectation and a good Enjoyment level:

Expectation: {High, Medium, Low, None}

Also the gender balance thing. It can also change throughout an event (if an event is a day at a weekender say) or even in the course of an evening. However I do think it can make a major impact. I'm not going to measure directly but I think adding a ratio of songs sat out might be good to measure; though it should more accurately be "songs that you've been forced to sit out on". It somewhat reflects the gender balance and a few other factors:

Dance Ratio: {All, Most, Many, Few}

I'm going to skip the improvement, Tones, as I think it can be difficult to measure improvement at an event and often you'll learn some moves you really like only to not include them in regular freestyle. I did include Own Skill as a measure of when you are having an off night.

As for the ratio of good dances this might be in expectation or maybe I should include a Skill At Event though it is a very relative thing and they might be having an off night :).

Tazmanian Devil
12th-March-2006, 08:56 AM
The Horse, The Elephant and The Whale

Jive Brummie
12th-March-2006, 12:42 PM
For me the thing that makes a great night...firstl if I haven't got to travel miles...or even better if somebody else drives then I'm already in a good mood for dancing.

Then I guess it'd be venue and DJ. Throw in the unexpected wee-gem of a dance from either somebody you don't know or you just connect with at the time and hey presto...top night.


Not any help at all that really is it...ho hum.

JB.